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Featured I thought Satan was cast out of Heaven already?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by friend of, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah that's right. Satan rules this world from 2nd heaven. It would encompass the outer planets and galaxy yes. Have you never heard this?
     
  2. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    No... I missed that memo. So, just the Milky Way then, not Andromeda or others nearby?

    List of nearest galaxies - Wikipedia
     
  3. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    You already answered this question with Revelation 20. There's one detail about Revelation 20 though that you apparently have missed.

    "... the souls of them that were beheaded...."
    Note these are souls, not bodies. Are those "reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom" "in soul format" only? Apparently so. The beginning of the "millennial kingdom" did not commence with "the rapture".

    Note John 6:39-44 and the term "last day". The bodies of the dead are raised on the "last day".

    36 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    40 - And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Now note John 11:24 Martha makes a statement to Jesus about Lazarus. She says "I know he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.

    John 12:48 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    So when is the bodily resurrection? It is on the "last day"; everyone will be raised.

    Matthew 25:
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Yes. Jesus said to one of the thieves "Today you will be with me in paradise." Luke 23:48

    2 Corinthians 12:2-4 tell us "paradise" is in "the third heaven".

    Revelation 2:7 tells us "the tree of life" is in "paradise".

    Because of the atonement "in time"; Those that die in Christ, their souls go strait into heaven. (Revelation 6:9 & 20:4 - both use the term "souls". Are people martyred in the millennial kingdom? Apparently yes!)

     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as a soul without the body. That is taken from Greek philosophy.
    Life came from the breath of God, the same breath that He gave to all living things.

    Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
    Gen_6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
    Gen_7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
    Gen_7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
     
  5. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Only part of Andromeda, Satan is still fighting to get that territory back from the cylons. Or was it the Borg? I can't remember.
     
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  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps that's the Cyborgs?
     
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  7. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    is that what happed to the Borg - they assimilated Satan!
     
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  8. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    So if there's no soul without a body; what happens when you die?
     
  9. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Like Jesus said--He called it sleep. We are dead. Everyone waits for God to resurrect us, either to eternal life---or the 2nd death.

    Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
    Job 14:10-12
    "But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.
    Psalm 13:3
    Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,
    Daniel 12:2
    "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
     
  10. Invalidusername

    Invalidusername Well-Known Member

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    I believe Satan was cast out of heaven sometime after the confrontation with God about Job. It might've been either before or after the flood.
     
  11. Done222

    Done222 Newbie Supporter

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    Satan hasn’t yet been cast out of Heaven, and when he is cast out things will be difficult for the inhabitants of Earth. Which sounds dreadful as a lot of people are already in great difficulty.
     
  12. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter Member

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    Rev. 12 starts a new symbolic vision given to John beginning back at Jesus' birth (the woman's [the people of God's] birth of the child). The woman flees into the desert chased by Satan. However, God protects God's people from him. You see, God is always in control of the earth, only allowing Satan to do certain actions which God can turn to good for his people. In Job's time, God controlled Satan's actions too, only allowing him to attack him in certain ways. God preserved his life (Job 1 and 2).

    Then, after Jesus' disciples returned from their evangelistic tour, he said, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18). Therefore, the case can be made that Satan was hurled out of heaven because of Jesus' first coming, something like WWII's D-Day and that during the time since then, Satan has been in retreat like the German army.
     
  13. Done222

    Done222 Newbie Supporter

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    John 12:31-32 Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.

    “Now” (at the time of the crucifixion and resurrection) the prince of the world “shall be” (at some point in the future) cast out.

    This statement was shortly before the crucifixion which would be after the statement in Luke 10, so the statement in Luke 10 would have to be a vision of a future event.)
     
  14. Calvin_1985

    Calvin_1985 Active Member

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    Revelation is all chronological order after the Letters to the Church. Revelation is the Spiritual rendition of the History of Earth and Jesus receiving the Kingdom to Him coming in Flesh(ch 12), and the ensuing History until Heaven and Earth are once again made one like it was before the Fall.
     
  15. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What Bible are you reading? The passage says the devil has been cast out of Heaven.
     
  16. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    You have presented several perfect examples of taking verses out of context and not looking at the whole of Scripture.

    Ecclesiastes 9:1-7
    1 For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.

    2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

    3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

    4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

    (Keep in mind, this is still in context of what happens to those who are "alive" as well as those who are "dead". Much of this is metaphorical of those who know God (living) and those who don't (dead).)

    5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

    The "living" know there will be an end to their life. The "dead" do not anticipate the meaning of that though. The "reward" they reaped was in this life. and in this life the memory of them is forgotten.

    We know the context is talking about this life because God does not forget someone when they die. There is a day of eternal reckoning for sin. The next verse also goes on to describe the "dead" and what has happened to all they've done in this life.

    Again, we know the context is talking about this life because their hatred and envy and "anything that is done under the sun" will be judged.


    6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

    Descriptor of what's happening in this life.

    7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

    Again, obviously this is not talking about eternity if there is a day of reckoning.

    Again, metaphorical. You are either alive to Christ or dead in your sin.

    Now is this talking about the body or the soul?

    When you compare other passages; you will see that there is consciousness after death. The "parable" of the rich man and Lazarus is one example of what happens after death.

    "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" 2 Corinthians 5:8 So are those "present with the Lord" unconscious? Does that make any sense?
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    And you just showed perfect example's of adding to what has been said with things not there. When we die there is no consciousness. The next thing we will know is when God awakens us to the 1st resurrection. Thus, right after we die, it will seem like a second and then we are awake. Like when we are sleeping and that stupid alarm clock goes off and it seems as though you just laid down. It is a dreamless sleep.
    Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be

    When Jesus comes back we will be given our reward then---not before. After the resurrection of the wicked, the 2nd resurrection, they are given their judgement and punishment. No one is in hell right now--and only those that were translated and Mosses who was resurrected are in heaven now.

    It doesn't even make sense to have a judgment after you've already been given your reward or punishment. We get eternal life as a gift from God---name one verse that states the lost are given eternal life. Makes no sense whatsoever that Cain, who killed 1 man has been burning in hell all this time for he will always have been punished for far longer than any future killer of millions. Jesus has made the choice as our High Priest as to who is lost or saved when He returns. He takes only the saved with Him. The living wicked are destroyed at His coming and the dead wicked remain dead until after the 1000 years. Then the wicked are resurrected and their judgment and punishment is handed out.

    You are saying everyone gets their reward at death-- then there is a judgement---that really makes no sense.
     
  18. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    I never said either of these.

    Yet if you're not willing to look at all passages; than there's no point in continuing this conversation.
     
  19. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Getting our reward or punishment at death and then the judgment is exactly what you are saying,
     
  20. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    That's what i was thinking but i have not researched it.
     
  21. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    You don't get both, it's one or the other. Either Christ paid for one's sin, or they pay for their own sin. Those atoned for will get what they've always wanted - an eternity with God. Those not atoned for will also get what they've always wanted - an eternity without God.
     
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