I thought Satan was cast out of Heaven already?

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Revelation 12:8-12

Says that Satan hasn't been cast out of Heaven... but isn't he here operating and controlling the world and plotting at this moment? I'm kinda confused because Rev 12 says Satan will be cast out in the future, so that means that Satan is... still in Heaven? If anyone can lend some insight here that would be great.
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Revelation 12:8-12

Says that Satan hasn't been cast out of Heaven... but isn't he here operating and controlling the world and plotting at this moment? I'm kinda confused because Rev 12 says Satan will be cast out in the future, so that means that Satan is... still un Heaven? If anyone can lend some insight here that would be great.

Satan has already fallen from heaven. In Revelation 12, John is seeing that fall take place. The events in Revelation are not all and always in chronological order. There is a timelessness.
 
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Revelation 12:8-12

Says that Satan hasn't been cast out of Heaven... but isn't he here operating and controlling the world and plotting at this moment? I'm kinda confused because Rev 12 says Satan will be cast out in the future, so that means that Satan is... still un Heaven? If anyone can lend some insight here that would be great.
Satan is still "roaming the earth like a lion seeking those to devour" 1 Peter 5:8. Satan is neither in heaven or hell. Also, Revelation 12 is a description of the events prior to the fall. Not what will happen in the future.
 
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HTacianas

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Revelation 12:8-12

Says that Satan hasn't been cast out of Heaven... but isn't he here operating and controlling the world and plotting at this moment? I'm kinda confused because Rev 12 says Satan will be cast out in the future, so that means that Satan is... still un Heaven? If anyone can lend some insight here that would be great.

Luk 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

If Jesus "beheld Satan...fall from heaven" I assume he already did.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Revelation 12:8-12

Says that Satan hasn't been cast out of Heaven... but isn't he here operating and controlling the world and plotting at this moment? I'm kinda confused because Rev 12 says Satan will be cast out in the future, so that means that Satan is... still un Heaven? If anyone can lend some insight here that would be great.
I interpret St. Luke 10:18 as saying the devil was cast out at that time. I'm open to correction on that but I don't really see any reason to change my view of it since the text since fairly self-explanatory.

As a Preterist, I see Revelation 20:1-3 saying that the devil is bound from deceiving the nations right now as he did prior to Our Lord's advent.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Luke 10:18 - the two verbs in that sentence - I "saw" Satan "fall"... are both imperfect tense. This is an event that began in the past, but hadn't been completed at the point the person making the statement is speaking of it.

John 12:31 gives us specifically when Satan is cast out of heaven. (And it's accompanied by something that sounds like thunder on earth. - vs 29)

This is happening on the Tuesday before sundown, the week of the crucifixion. Revelation 20:1-3 speaks of the binding of Satan. He's bound a "thousand" years. We know the millennial reign began at the resurrection. Ephesians 1:19-22.

Was Satan bound when he was cast out; or was it 5 days later? It's difficult to tell by the text of Revelation 20. I tend to lean toward him being bound when he was cast out; yet the Scripture also says that he entered into Judas; so, the binding very well may have happened at the resurrection?

This sort of makes sense on one level, but not on another.

We have an interesting dichotomy though, between the actions of the leaders of Israel and the actions of the Romans. ".... distress of nations with perplexity... " (Luke 21:25) which mean the nations are restrained and they are in a quandary over this. And here is why I lean toward Satan being bound when he was cast out - because of the atonement. The nations had to be restrained in order for the payment for sin to be a just endeavor - and not a sadistic event.

So there's my understanding of it

And I concur too: the book of Revelation is not in chronological order.
 
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Luke 10:18 - the two verbs in that sentence - I "saw" Satan "fall"... are both imperfect tense. This is an event that began in the past, but hadn't been completed at the point the person making the statement is speaking of it.

Right, just throwing this out there... What's interesting to note though is that lightening falls very very fast. So I'm not sure how it couldn't have been fully completed by the time Jesus was speaking. Was the "lightening" processing, falling, processing, still falling, still not totally ejected from Heaven. This would suggest a more gradual removal of Satan's power then instead of the abruptness of lightning speed, though God views time differently. Jesus says this after Luke 10:17 when his disciples had been waging war against Satan's kingdom through proclaiming the gospel and healing the sick and casting out demons. Did Jesus' disciples and the works He instructed them to do play a role in Satan being struck out of Heaven?
 
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The Righterzpen

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Right, just throwing this out there... What's interesting to note though is that lightening falls very very fast. So I'm not sure how it couldn't have been fully completed by the time Jesus was speaking. Was the "lightening" processing, falling, processing, still falling, still not totally ejected from Heaven. This would suggest a more gradual removal of Satan's power then instead of the abruptness of lightning speed, though God views time differently. Jesus says this after Luke 10:17 when his disciples had been waging war against Satan's kingdom through proclaiming the gospel and healing the sick and casting out demons. Did Jesus' disciples and the works He instructed them to do play a role in Satan being struck out of Heaven?

Well, we know specifically from John 12:31 when Satan was cast out.

The context of Luke 10:18 is that the 70 are relaying to Jesus "We can cast out devils in your name." And Jesus makes this statement about "I beheld Satan falling from heaven." And this being the reason that they can cast out devils; because even at this point; He has dominion over Satan.

Now Jesus making reference to an event that hasn't happened yet, but He's seen it "in past tense"; is probably eluding to what He saw in "eternity" probably prior to being incarnated. Remember, the Godhead planned this entire thing out before creation ever commenced and in a very real way, outside of time that operates in the created world; there still is the "eternal domaine of God".

Jesus is the lamb "slain from the foundations of the world"; (Revelation 13:8) so everything that happens in time, is already happened outside of time. Kind of hard for us to wrap our brains around I know; because we are confined to time as it exists in the universe we live it. Time is a fixed "law" that only goes in one direction. "Eternity" though has it's own "rules".

Think of the created universe like a sphere that exists inside the eternal domaine of God. Inside the sphere, nothing created is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal or immortal; yet "everything" (i.e. God) outside of this sphere is.

So Jesus speaking of bearing witness to an event that hasn't happened yet in "spherical time"; very well could have been something witnessed of in eternity. Or of more probable "revelation" to Jesus "in the flesh"; probably was recollected to his earthly existence in a dream.

Psalm 139 talks about that. A lot of what Jesus came to understand about His life and purpose, came to Him in dreams. His dreams functioned psychologically to the same purpose ours do. They help our brains organize, process and make sense of our waking existence. This is why things we've been mulling over the answers to, sometimes the answer comes to us in our sleep and in the dream it's as clear as can be. (Now how muddy does that become upon waking? Sometimes it stays clear.)

So that is probably the more likely aspect of this "imperfect tense" verbiage.
 
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mmksparbud

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The Righterzpen

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And how long has it been since Jesus was resurrected?

1986 years.

"So what happened to the "1000" year reign?"

If you look at the grammatical notations in the Greek. You will see that "thousand" is actually in the plural. Now is it a "duel plural" meaning "plural of 1000" (or 2000) or is it a "multiple plural" meaning "thousands of"? I don't know Greek well enough to answer that question; but I do know "thousand" is in the plural.

2000 years after the resurrection would be 2033 AD.

I guess we'll see what happens in 13 years? (unless of course we got the calendar a little mixed up and we are missing a year (or a decade)?
 
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I don't have a full exposition of it right to hand, but my understanding is that Satan has access to God until he is finally thrown into the bottomless pit in Rev 20.

I'm thinking about Scripture that shows Satan as the accuser of man during the church age, so he must have access to God. I'm also thinking about the book of Job where Satan has conversations with God.

Rev 12 seems to indicate an earlier "casting down" of Satan and his rebellious angels. I take that to mean Satan can no longer claim Heaven as home, but he still has access to it to talk to God. The angels and demons do not.

Later I could dig further into Scripture to back up what I say. Or, I could be mistaken. This is just off the top of my head.

Good discussion topic, though.
 
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mmksparbud

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1986 years.

"So what happened to the "1000" year reign?"

If you look at the grammatical notations in the Greek. You will see that "thousand" is actually in the plural. Now is it a "duel plural" meaning "plural of 1000" (or 2000) or is it a "multiple plural" meaning "thousands of"? I don't know Greek well enough to answer that question; but I do know "thousand" is in the plural.

2000 years after the resurrection would be 2033 AD.

I guess we'll see what happens in 13 years? (unless of course we got the calendar a little mixed up and we are missing a year (or a decade)?


The saved are resurrected and supposed to all be with Christ during the 1000 years and all the wicked are dead until after it. This is heaven with Christ? When did the resurrection of the saved take place?


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

-
 
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Petros2015

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The saved are resurrected and supposed to all be with Christ during the 1000 years and all the wicked are dead until after it. This is heaven with Christ? When did the resurrection of the saved take place?

Hey, c'mon. You've got smartphones and 500 channels of cable TV. What more do you want?
 
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Petros2015

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Satan will get the boot from the second heaven. God reigns from the third heaven. And the first heaven, we are already in. It's the air we breathe and the atmosphere which surrounds us.

Hmm? Ok, if Earth/atmosphere is first heaven, I can see where first heaven ends. Does second heaven begin at the end of first heaven? Is Satan reigning in Outer Space? That's a pretty large territory.

I feel like this is something the Space Force should be made aware of if we assemble one.
 
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mmksparbud

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Hey, c'mon. You've got smartphones and 500 channels of cable TV. What more do you want?

Actually--when my husband died last year, I had to get rid of both, couldn't afford them!!
 
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Petros2015

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Actually--when my husband died last year, I had to get rid of both, couldn't afford them!!

I'm sorry to hear that about your husband :( Hopefully for him the 1,000 year reign started that day
 
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mmksparbud

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I'm sorry to hear that about your husband :( Hopefully for him the 1,000 year reign started that day

Thanks, after 28 years of much prayer, he gave his heart to the Lord before he died--he died in my arms, and God's.
 
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