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I think his Name is very important.

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Wavy, Apr 20, 2006.

  1. Wavy

    Wavy Regular Member

    187
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    Messianic
    Single
    There are some who base their arguments against the importance of the sacred name off of the fact that the NT was written in Greek and the name is not in it, thus the Spirit considered it not important. They say there is no evidence that Yeshua used it and that one must rewrite the bible in order to make him say it.

    They say Yeshua called YHWH "Father" (although this is not a new concept that he introduced - see Deut 32:7; Is 63:16; Is 64:8; Mal 2:10). They say he never once rebuked any of the Jewish leaders for the rabbincal ban on the name. They say it doesn't matter what we call him (the Father, that is). They say we can't know how to pronounce the name (YHWH, yod-hey-vav-hey, יהוה).

    But I think all this undermines the authority of the Hebrew inspiration of the scriptures (they are inspired, correct?) and this is the importance they place on his name (replace "the LORD" with YHWH or יהוה in your head):

    [bible]Exodus 3:15[/bible] [bible]Psalm 72:17[/bible] [bible]Psalm 135:13[/bible] [bible]Psalm 20:7[/bible] [bible]Psalm 9:10[/bible] [bible]Jeremiah 16:21[/bible] [bible]Isaiah 52:6[/bible] [bible]Hosea 12:5[/bible]

    I could go on and on and on (do a word list study on "name")





     
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  2. simchat_torah

    simchat_torah Got Torah?

    +407
    Judaism
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    See: The High Priest's reaction to his words when he was taken before the court.
     
  3. shmuel

    shmuel Active Member

    621
    +22
    Messianic
    OK. I know a little Hebrew, and I can supply a pronunciation of the tetragrammaton based on its identification as a 3ms imperfect from the root he-vav/waw-he. It represents the pronunciation used by a number of scholars. But in reality that is just a guess. A good guess maybe but still just a guess.

    Why don't you tell us what you think the correct pronunciation is. And tell us why.
     
  4. Wavy

    Wavy Regular Member

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    I have always believed it was pronounced ee-ah-ooh-eh. I am not so sure about that now. But because I am not sure does not mean the doctrine is not important. As scripture says,

    [bible]Proverbs 25:2[/bible]
     
  5. shmuel

    shmuel Active Member

    621
    +22
    Messianic
    I believe that your view represents an interpretation of the quote from Josephus that the name consists of "four vowels". The problem is: what does that mean in terms of the Hebew language? Josephus wrote in Greek and the Greek alphabetic is derived from the protosemitic alphabet. Several letters from the protosemitic alphabet that have no corresponding sounds in Greek were used to represent Greek vowels. Perhaps this is the source of the statement.

    Hebrew requires that each syllable begin with a consonant that is followed by a vowel. A syllable may end with the vowel (an open syllable) or have a final consonant (closed syllable). The hebrew consonant, alef, is a silent consonant, thus syllables that appear to begin with a vowel, in actuality begin with a silent consonant. (In modern Hebrew ayin is frequently also treated as a silent consonant).

    The letters yod, vav/waw, and he can be used as vowel letters. The grammar term for this is mater (matres, pl) lectionis. However, he is only a mater at the end of a word and yod and vav are only matres medially and finally. Thus, ony the vav and final he in the tetragrammaton are candidates to be matres. The rule that every syllable begin with a consonant further means that at most only one of them can be a mater. To additionally complicate the discussion, the use of matres In Hebrew did not begin until the 9th century BCE. However, the traditional dating of Moses is around the 14th century BCE, thus Moses could not have used matres. I suppose if Moses wanted to write a name with only four vowels he could have written four alef's, but of course, that is not the tetragrammaton that we know, yod-he-vav-he.

    Although the doctrine may be important, it is not clear to me how the true pronunciation is to be recovered.
     
  6. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +7,381
    Messianic
    Holy is His name
     
  7. Tishri1

    Tishri1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,099
    Messianic
    Married
    I have many friends who use His Name in Prayer and Worship (scripture reading) only...They use Father (not God) when just chitchatting in conversation.....I also have friends who never say the Name... I think its one of these things myself
    I am not saying anyone here is in SIN because we are not sooooooo weak here are we?

    FOR ME, if I know a group I am talking to uses the name I accept that,and if a group I know doesn't, I accept that as well, and then I just do what I think it best under the circumstances WITHOUT causing the weakest in that group to be offended...

    ABBA (My personal Name for God:blush:) hasn't expressed TO ME any preference as yet, but I am listening for what He should desire to be called ,and should hear from him in this regard any time now....

    I admire both groups for their strong convictions:groupray:...:pray:
     
  8. Sephania

    Sephania Well-Known Member

    +369
    We should use what the angels call Him, you will find it in Rev 4:8

    oJ w]n kai; oJ h\n kai; oJ ejrcovme


    Lots of vowels in there. ;)
     
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