I Stand for the National Anthem

[RDKirk]

Oh, well that is totally OK then.

Except that it violates flag etiquette...

Yes. See post #13 for the details.

 

[Nithavela]

It looks like a towel or blanket with the flag printed on it, not an actual flag.

Would you be okay with someone burning a towel with the american flag printed on it?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yeah, I think this picture shows how cynical and cheap the "I stand for mah flag" bluster is. We violate flag code all the time, but nobody cares until black (what a coincidence) football players kneel during the anthem.
Ringo

Bingo.

If it's a picture of a stripper posing with an AR-15 in an American flag thong for a gun calendar, or an American flag on a can of Bud Light, people are okay with it... "but don't you dare kneel"

 

[tas8831]

Yes. See post #13 for the details.

Then there is new conservative darling 'Kid Rock', who has been known to take a flag, cut a hole in it, and wear it as a poncho...

 

[Rion]

Yeah, I think this picture shows how cynical and cheap the "I stand for mah flag" bluster is. We violate flag code all the time, but nobody cares until black (what a coincidence) football players kneel during the anthem.
Ringo

Considering that 70% of football players are black, the chances are good that most of the players are black.

Are you suggesting this wouldn't have happened if the NFL had diversity quotas forced on them? /s

/s to denote sarcasm for people who are humor-challenged.

 

[tas8831]

Black football players or white football players, it would have resulted in the same outrage.

You think?

All this 'respect the flag' stuff rings hollow - next time you are at a sporting event and the anthem is played - tell me what percentage of the crowd is actually being respectful. How many are talking, drinking, goofing around, taking selfies, whatever.

sure, they are probably standing, but is that ALL that matters?

If so, then what passes for 'respect for the flag' - standing - is a substance-free, hollow, meaningless gesture.

 

[tas8831]

Bingo.

If it's a picture of a stripper posing with an AR-15 in an American flag thong for a gun calendar, or an American flag on a can of Bud Light, people are okay with it... "but don't you dare kneel"

Or a flag bandana wrapped around the head of a chicken hawk, greasy-headed heir to a duck-call making business...

 

[TheBear]

Black football players or white football players, it would have resulted in the same outrage.

Some people see everything through the lens of skin color. Which, in and of itself, is racist.

 

[Dirk1540]

You think?

All this 'respect the flag' stuff rings hollow - next time you are at a sporting event and the anthem is played - tell me what percentage of the crowd is actually being respectful. How many are talking, drinking, goofing around, taking selfies, whatever.

sure, they are probably standing, but is that ALL that matters?

If so, then what passes for 'respect for the flag' - standing - is a substance-free, hollow, meaningless gesture.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. If Tom Brady (NFL's golden boy) started this instead of Kaepernick sparks would also fly. I don't understand Colin's original logic, if he hated the wars that we are in with a passion then I could understand the logic of him taking the knee. Taking the knee because of racial injustice?? I don't follow! He should have known it was unavoidable that he would anger tens of millions of Americans over what wasn't even his message to begin with.

I can spit in a cop's face and claim that it's in protest to world hunger due to corporate greed...unfortunately many won't get my point.

Some people see everything through the lens of skin color. Which, in and of itself, is racist.

Totally agree! Which means that the people who are most in love with saying 'Racism' everywhere they turn, don't even know what the word means, they are making self refuting complaints.

Why can't people see that yes racism exists but that it is being way over played as a divide & conquer technique?

 

[RDKirk]

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. If Tom Brady (NFL's golden boy) started this instead of Kaepernick sparks would also fly. I don't understand Colin's original logic, if he hated the wars that we are in with a passion then I could understand the logic of him taking the knee. Taking the knee because of racial injustice?? I don't follow! He should have known it was unavoidable that he would anger tens of millions of Americans over what wasn't even his message to begin with.

What do you mean "wasn't even his message to begin with?"

 

[Dirk1540]

What do you mean "wasn't even his message to begin with?"

I mean that his argument is 'A' but due to his choice of protest it was absolutely unavoidable that millions of people would instead be enraged over 'B.'

 

[dgiharris]

Lol. What's your theory about why they fly jet fighters over stadiums during football anthems? Why a military presence gets combined with sporting events a lot? It's just a question me and my one friend aways wonder about.

Marketing and recruitment.

A sporting event hits the demographic that all armed forces are targeting. You get males aged 9 to 24 to think "Wow, that is cool!!!! I want to be a part of that!!!!" Then that demographic also sees how "everyone else' reacts to it. They are in awe, they are respectful... which further strengthens the appeal of joining up...

To be fair, I think it's a brilliant strategy and I do not fault the government for doing so. We have a volunteer military and I'll easily take these marketing vehicles vs conscription and forced service ala the draft (which of course impacts minorities and the poor much harder...)

 

[Dirk1540]

I'll easily take these marketing vehicles vs conscription and forced service ala the draft (which of course impacts minorities and the poor much harder...)

I'm no expert on this but I was told long ago that there will never be a forced draft ever again because that is what caused the 60s. That when you are a military that stations itself all over the world, and you combine that with forced service, that that lights a fire in people that causes them to rebel 20 times worse about the justness of our military actions. When body bags are coming home with Americans who didn't even want to be in the military, their loved ones will go crazy compared to dead soldiers who chose to enlist.

That's just what I've heard, do you believe that theory?

 

[RDKirk]

I'm no expert on this but I was told long ago that there will never be a forced draft ever again because that is what caused the 60s. That when you are a military that stations itself all over the world, and you combine that with forced service, that that lights a fire in people that causes them to rebel 20 times worse about the justness of our military actions. When body bags are coming home with Americans who didn't even want to be in the military, their loved ones will go crazy compared to dead soldiers who chose to enlist.

That's just what I've heard, do you believe that theory?

In the 60s, most kids in college with kids with moneyed parents--they didn't have all the college loans back then--even credit cards were practically non-existent. You had to be a landowner to get an American Express card.

Nobody was upset over the draft until they dropped the college deferments.

 

[iluvatar5150]

In the 60s, most kids in college with kids with moneyed parents--they didn't have all the college loans back then--even credit cards were practically non-existent. You had to be a landowner to get an American Express card.

Nobody was upset over the draft until they dropped the college deferments.

I thought the dropping of the college deferments was done to placate people who were complaining that the draft was unfair.

 

[Sketcher]

And this is how one trolls the entire country right here.

 

[dgiharris]

I'm no expert on this but I was told long ago that there will never be a forced draft ever again because that is what caused the 60s.

If the US finds itself in a war that actually threatens our sovereignty (ala like WWII) and there was a possibility we could lose said war, then yes, the draft would come back.

Another possibility would be if we drastically cut military spending and had to offset the cuts by also cutting military salaries and the only way we could hit the recruitment numbers we needed were to institute the draft... then the draft would come back...

So never say never... for the foreseable future, there will be no draft... but you never know.

Given what I'm seeing in America today regarding our apparent lack of understanding when it comes to basic liberties and tyranny of the State vs the citizenry (i.e. how easily the citizenry accepts tyranny by the State) I really wouldn't be all that surprised if the draft did come back...

 

[Dirk1540]

So never say never...

There's definitely truth to that!

Given what I'm seeing in America today regarding our apparent lack of understanding when it comes to basic liberties and tyranny of the State vs the citizenry (i.e. how easily the citizenry accepts tyranny by the State) I really wouldn't be all that surprised if the draft did come back...

People have been manipulated by the same basic handful of psychological tricks for thousands of years, with huge success. Normalcy Bias is alive and well!! "That tyranny thing can't happen to us!!" There was huge progress and promise with the US Constitution. But it's scary how far we are going in reverse. I believe that the best thing that could possibly be done would be mandatory classes in grade/high school on logic and how to detect manipulation. Not only for protection against oppressive governments but also on a personal level such as guarding people against the tricks that sociopaths play in their everyday life. However, I also believe that it is human nature that sociopaths always rise to the top levels of positions of authority (not by accident). And I believe that they will always make sure that such a mandatory class never exists. I think the closest that humanity ever came to putting the smack down on oppressive governments full of sociopaths is unfortunately behind us.

And this is how one trolls the entire country right here.

I can't tell who this was addressed to, and which statement it was regarding.

 

[dgiharris]

. I believe that the best thing that could possibly be done would be mandatory classes in grade/high school on logic and how to detect manipulation. Not only for protection against oppressive governments but also on a personal level such as guarding people against the tricks that sociopaths play in their everyday life.

I had this epiphany about 20 years ago

. However, I also believe that it is human nature that sociopaths always rise to the top levels of positions of authority (not by accident). And I believe that they will always make sure that such a mandatory class never exists. .

I had this epiphany about 8 months ago

reading the arguments on this forum, I can definitely see why the powers that be would NEVER make Philosophy and Critical Thinking and Rhetoric mandatory public education courses...

It's so much easier to control large swaths of the population when they have no training or education in the above and instead rely on emotion, anecdote, etc to make their decisions

 

[LoAmmi]

I believe that the best thing that could possibly be done would be mandatory classes in grade/high school on logic and how to detect manipulation. Not only for protection against oppressive governments but also on a personal level such as guarding people against the tricks that sociopaths play in their everyday life.

You're unlikely to run into sociopaths on a regular basis. But people who engage in social engineering abound. Social engineering happens when somebody attempts to get you to do something such as providing sensitive information voluntarily. An example might be someone posing as your credit card company on the phone to get you to give up your card number. It'd be great if more people have training in how to handle these types of things.