I myself am not under the law

[Adamina]

Featured I myself am not under the law

Paul is quoted saying this in 1 Cor 9:20. My question is which law is he referring to? Torah/Mosaic law or something else?

Levitical Law of Moses....

As a US citizen I am under the laws of the US and State that I am a citizen of.
As a Christian, I am under the Law of Christ my Savior and Redeemer.

Gal 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Saul/Paul did not desire to be under the yoke of the Mosaic/Temple Law.

Young Literal Translation]
Rom 6:
14 for sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? let it not be!
Rom 7:6 and now we have ceased from the law, that being dead in which we were held, so that we may serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

1Co 9:20 and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that Jews I might gain; to those under law as under law, that those under law I might gain

Gal 3:
2 this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith?
5 He, therefore, who is supplying to you the Spirit, and working mighty acts among you -- by works of law or by the hearing of faith is it?
23 And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed,

Gal 4:
4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
5 that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;
21 Tell me, ye who are willing to be under law, the law do ye not hear?

Gal 5:18 and if by the Spirit ye are led, ye are not under law.
=============================
Paul the Christian

Paul the Apostle Study Archive
Paul the Apostle

Tom Holland: Contours of Pauline Theology

• “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)
• “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)
• “It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand.” (Rom. 13:11-12)
• “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)
• “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)
• “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)
• “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)
• “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)
• “Maranatha!” [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)
• “…not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)
• “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)
• “The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven.” (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)
• “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)
• “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)
• “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)
• “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7)
• “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)
• “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)
• “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)
• “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)
• “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)
• “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)
• “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)
• “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)
• “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)
• “For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it’s end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)
• “When He said, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)
• “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)
• “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)
• “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)
• “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)
• “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)
• “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)
• “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)
• “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

 

[pasifika]

Yes, love is the fulfilment of the law. But without reading law written in ink, no matter how much you love others you will not by nature obey/follow the Levitical law

The Levitical law written by Moses hundreds of years later...Galatians 3:17
Nothing written from the creation of this world...mankind only have mind and conscience (heart)...and the promise of the seed to come, the good news....

 

[pasifika]

No one notices that the Gentiles were never under the law and for some unknown reason.

Because it was only given to those who came out of Egypt with Moses, NOT the human race...

 

[Saint Steven]

@HARK!
Your scripture references all begin with (CLV). What does that stand for?

 

[klutedavid]

Love is the fulfilment of the Law...Romans 13:10....don't need the Torah to tell you that...But if you have the Spirit you will show God's Love...it a gift! God give it to whoever He desire either Jew, gentiles etc

Love is not only a gift it is written on our hearts also.

Love does not kill.

Love does not steal.

Love never commits adultery.

Love fulfills and exceeds the law.

God is love!

 

[klutedavid]

Because it was only given to those who came out of Egypt with Moses, NOT the human race...

How can they not see this in the scripture?

 

[pasifika]

Love is not only a gift it is written on our hearts also.

Love does not kill.

Love does not steal.

Love never commits adultery.

Love fulfills and exceeds the law.

God is love!

Exactly...that is the Law written in our hearts...it is actually "Christ " the Spirit...Where the fullness of love is found..

 

[DamianWarS]

For the believer, the law is written upon the heart but that does not mean the law is abolished

Who said anything about abolished? The law is fulfilled, it is not abolished.

 

[DamianWarS]

Torah, but you should also note that Paul is writing about a very, very specific context; that of evangelizing the Jews. You will also note that elsewhere, when Paul writes about the larger issue of the law he (and James) is writing solely about finding justification and righteousness in the law, not all other conditions in which the law might remain applicable. You will also not that in this 1 Cor. 9 passage Paul actually applies the law to himself to support his position in verse 9.

Do you think Paul cares about what you do with your ox?

 

[DamianWarS]

@HARK!
Your scripture references all begin with (CLV). What does that stand for?

CLV = Concordant Literal Version

 

[JIMINZ]

I love to theologically debate. Debate for the sake of debate is useless to me.

Does Theology deal primarily with Facts, using such things as Scripture in order to demonstrate the Truth, or Theory, using such things as Assumption, Allusion, when attempting to demonstrate a point about some Truth?

For the believer, the law is written upon the heart but that does not mean the law is abolished - it still exists upon our hearts.

This is a three part statement, therefore I will speak to all three statements separately
1) For the believer, the law is written upon the heart

What have you put forth to prove this Theory?

2) But that does not mean the law is abolished

It appears as though this statement has no purpose other than to elicit Debate.
You have only voiced an opinion at this point.....Again this it Theory.

3) it still exists upon our hearts.

Same as above, nothing to prove the statement....only opinion....Theory.

The Levitical law is written upon the heart of a regenerated believer BUT each believer has the choice of whether to obey the law by sinning or not sinning against it.

Another unverified two part statement.

1) The Levitical law is written upon the heart of a regenerated believer

Is it possible to demonstrate this Theory clearly, by the use of Scripture?

2) BUT each believer has the choice of whether to obey the law by sinning or not sinning against it.

This statement is a whole subject all on it's own.
Your contention is, Believers once Regenerated, not only continue to commit sin, but willfully chose to sin.

WE can grieve or not grieve the Holy Spirit. We can choose to live according to the flesh or live according to the Spirit.

Another two part statement.
1) WE can grieve or not grieve the Holy Spirit.

In this you are correct, we can either Grieve or not Grieve the Holy Spirit, but the overwhelming posture of the Regenerated Believer is not to be in the position for Grieving the Holy Spirit to take place.

2) We can choose to live according to the flesh or live according to the Spirit.

In this statement you have clarified your belief, a Regenerated Believer can chose to Grieve or not Grieve the Holy Spirit, which coincides with your statement regarding the Regenerated Believer willfully sinning.

Is there a demonstration of such an eventuality from Scripture?

An unbeliever on the other hand can only live according to the flesh since he has not been regenerated in the spirit.

Two Parts.
1) An unbeliever on the other hand can only live according to the flesh

This is a true statement, no argument here.

2) since he (The Un-Believer) has not been regenerated in the spirit.

What then is the point, or even the advantage to be Regenerated Believer, if according to your Theory, the Regenerated Believe still chooses to live in the Flesh from time to time, or to some extent on a daily basis?

I do not see any marked difference between the Regenerated Believer and the Un-Believer at this point, their behavior is no different that the other.
Both Sin.

The law causes the unbeliever to repent once he is made conscious of the fact that he has sinned against the law and needs to be saved through faith in Jesus.

Is there Teaching on your statements, any documentation which would buttress anything you have said?

 

[Soyeong]

wait? Where did he say this?

Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not lawless to God's law, but under the lawful to Christ, so he straightforwardly equated the Law of God with the Law of Christ, and the Law of Moses is the Law of God. After all, the Law of Moses was given by God and Christ is God, so it is the Law of Christ.

I went to college, and during college I had certain things I had to do in order to graduate, now that I've graduated I no longer need to do those things and if I do it doesn't contribute any more to my diploma. It's not that my time at college is worthless, it isn't and the diploma hangs on my wall, continues to give me credentials and I continue to value it. Laws can work the same way, they change and old systems don't need to be followed when a newer system is in place. Being lawful to Christ invokes not old systems but current systems. The old doesn't get thrown out but instead fulfilled which may have a similar result but is very different. Certainly the law of Moses was God's law but to be lawful to God today doesn't invoke this law and if it does we are doing it very wrong specially to the sacrifice. The letter of the law no longer speaks to us but the law instead points to Christ, as it always did but it is now revealed this way.

God's laws are not arbitrarily given, but rather they were given to teach us about who He is, how to walk in His ways, and how to express His character traits through our actions. If the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness were to change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do what is righteous are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under if any. As part of the New Covenant, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God (1 John 3:10).

Christ lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and he did not go to cross in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example. Jesus was one of many who fulfilled the law by teaching how to correctly obey it by word and by example. God's law points us to Christ because everything in it teaches us about who he is, how to walk as he walked, and how to grow in a relationship with him. Being lawful to God is incompatible to not acting in accordance with laws that God has given.

Acts 15 there was a demand that gentiles were to follow the entire law of Moses, which concluded the that grace was by faith not law and there were imposed some restrictions but extremely little an no where close to the law of Moses. Who is ethnically Jewish today anyways? Since the 1st century Jewish diaspora I would suggest the race no longer exists. We are all gentile and law through inheritance is adopted and probably has nothing to do with blood. If we fail in one part we fail in it all, Paul was not Jewish, he was Christ's and Christ call us all to deny self to follow him, we should do the same, however Paul still was able to become a Jew to minister to Jews as he was called and it seems his call was for life.

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against that requirement, and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded, especially because they did not have the authority to countermand God.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct how to do. Likewise, in Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that was how Jesus was gracious to us. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and as a his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so following Jesus isn't just for Jews, but for Gentiles too. Paul never stopped identifying as a Jew (Acts 21:39, 22:3) or as a Pharisee (Acts 23:6), which is a sect of Judaism, and in 1 Corinthians 11:1, he said to follow his example as he followed the example of Christ, so we are also instructed to follow the example of a Jewish Pharisee. How can someone follow Christ by refusing to follow his example?

I see no reason to doubt that the people who have been keeping Jewish traditions for thousands of years are Jews. In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience to the law because that would have already been too late and he was not discouraging them from trying to obey the law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and do a better job of obeying the law more consistently.

 

[Soyeong]

You do accept that under the new covenant the law God wants you to follow is written on your mind and placed on your heart by God Himself don't you? Jeremiah ch31, Heb 8&10
What is in your mind you in your mind must surely know, and what is in your heart you in your heart want to follow. I imagine you also accept that: Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
Therefore, as I have no consciousness of sin in my heart or mind by not following Torah that only leaves two possibilities. Either that law is not written in my mind and placed on my heart or I cannot be a Christian.

Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and a Christian is someone who seeks to follow what Christ taught by word and by example. Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which he prophesied would be proclaimed to the nations before the end (Matthew 24:12-14). So for Gentiles, it is about seeing what Christ Jesus followed and taught by word and by example and deciding whether or not to become his follower. We are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to follow Paul's example for he followed the example of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1).

Our conscience is informed by the highest level or moral law that we believe. However, our conscience part of our fallen nature, so it is not perfect, which is why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 4:3 that even though he was not aware of anything against himself he was not justified. So our conscience helps us to live in accordance with the moral law, but it does not replace it, and therefore is not the ultimate determiner of our spiritual condition. Our conscience is capable of warning us when our spiritual condition is in danger, but it is not God's law, and needs to be informed by God's law in order to function correctly.

In Romans 14, there are weak Christians whose conscience is not informed in a mature way, where their conscience won't let them do what they really would be free to do, so again our conscience does not replace God's law. Someone's conscience can be so misinformed that their glory is in their shame (Philippians 3:19), where both their mind and their conscience are defiled (Titus 1:15). So the first way to destroy the work of conscience is to misinform it where you don't give it the true law of God and the second way is to silence it when it speaks. In 1 Timothy 4:2, Paul spoke about a wounded or seared conscience, and a good indicator of this is if someone sees nothing wrong with continuing to do what God has revealed in His law to be sin. The New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so if someone is not experiencing that, then perhaps they should ponder whether they are part of the New Covenant.

 

[DamianWarS]

Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not lawless to God's law, but under the lawful to Christ

What's often translated as "not free from God's law" is like how you put it except there is no noun "law", there is also no "under the lawful" but just "lawful". Because the word is an adjective from of law, one negative and the other not, I like unlawful and lawful for clarity sake.

So...
"not unlawful to God but lawful to Christ"

You seem to really want this noun "law" in there but there is no noun. Paul is describing obedience not law.

 

[Soyeong]

What's often translated as "not free from God's law" is like how you put it except there is no noun "law", there is also no "under the lawful" but just "lawful". Because the word is an adjective from of law, one negative and the other not, I like unlawful and lawful for clarity sake.

So...
"not unlawful to God but lawful to Christ"

You seem to really want this noun "law" in there but there is no noun. Paul is describing obedience not law.

What do you see as the significance difference between being lawful to Christ and being under the law of Christ? Or between not being lawless to God and not breaking the law of God? Obedience is to the law.

 

[Adamina]

Featured I myself am not under the law
Levitical Law of Moses....

As a US citizen I am under the laws of the US and State that I am a citizen of.
As a Christian, I am under the Law of Christ my Savior and Redeemer.
Saul/Paul did not desire to be under the yoke of the Mosaic/Temple Law.

Young Literal Translation]
Rom 6:
14 for sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? let it not be!
Rom 7:6 and now we have ceased from the law, that being dead in which we were held, so that we may serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.

1Co 9:20 and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that Jews I might gain; to those under law as under law, that those under law I might gain

Gal 3:
2 this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith?
5 He, therefore, who is supplying to you the Spirit, and working mighty acts among you -- by works of law or by the hearing of faith is it?
23 And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed,

Gal 4:
4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law,
5 that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;
21 Tell me, ye who are willing to be under law, the law do ye not hear?

Gal 5:18 and if by the Spirit ye are led, ye are not under law.
=============================
Paul the Christian

Paul the Apostle Study Archive
Paul the Apostle

Tom Holland: Contours of Pauline Theology

• “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)
• “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)
• “It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand.” (Rom. 13:11-12)
• “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)
• “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)
• “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)
• “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)
• “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)
• “Maranatha!” [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)
• “…not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)
• “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)
• “The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven.” (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)
• “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)
• “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)
• “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)
• “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7)
• “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)
• “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)
• “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)
• “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)
• “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)
• “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)
• “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)
• “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)
• “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)
• “For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it’s end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)
• “When He said, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)
• “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)
• “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)
• “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)
• “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)
• “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)
• “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)
• “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)
• “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

Soyeong said: ↑
Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not lawless to God's law, but under the lawful to Christ

What's often translated as "not free from God's law" is like how you put it except there is no noun "law", there is also no "under the lawful" but just "lawful". Because the word is an adjective from of law, one negative and the other not, I like unlawful and lawful for clarity sake.
So...
"not unlawful to God but lawful to Christ"

You seem to really want this noun "law" in there but there is no noun. Paul is describing obedience not law.

Indeed.
Paul was often misunderstood by the Jews pre 70ad, up to when the Temple and Mosaic form of worship was abolished.......

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

PREFACE
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. --
Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;
the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived..........................

 

[HARK!]

1Co 9:20 and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that Jews I might gain; to those under law as under law, that those under law I might gain

Great verse! What does it mean?

UNDER THE LAW!
The first time Paul mentions this in the Bible is in Romans 3:19. There he defines who it applies to.

(CLV) Ro 3:19
Now we are aware that, whatever the law is saying, it is speaking to those under the law, that every mouth may be barred, and the entire world may become subject to the just verdict of God,

Let's look at this very carefully. The law speaks to those under the law.

The law speaks so that every mouth in the entire world may become subject to YHWH's judgement.

The preceding verse serves to further define the behavior of those who are under the law:

(CLV) Ro 3:18
There is not fear of God in front of their eyes.

Why would we fear or loving Abba?

(CLV) Ex 20:20
Then Moses said to the people: Do not fear, for in order to probe you the One, Elohim has come, and in order that the fear of Him should come over your faces, that you may not sin.

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.


The Judaeans we're well familiar with YHWH's Law (Torah), but they were also practicing Works of Law.

I don't see "Works of Law" mentioned in the Torah. I don't see any mention of it by Yahshua. Where is Paul getting this?

It is mentioned 1 time in Romans and 6 times in Galatians.

It is also mentioned in the Qumran Scrolls.

Q394 (4QMMTa) 4QHalakhic Letter
Dead Sea Scrolls Project: 4QMMT

Definition of halacha
: the body of Jewish law supplementing the scriptural law and forming especially the legal part of the Talmud
Definition of HALACHA

Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over the Torah.

I like this next verse too!

21 to those without law as without law (not being without God's law, but legally (εννομος) Christ's), that I should be gaining those without law.

"Not being without," is a double negative. Paul is with YHWH's Law.

You can look at these verses in a deeper context here: Paul on the Law: 1 Corinthians 9

HOT OFF THE PRESS!

 

[Oldmantook]

Thank you for your post, but I do not see how it addressed what I wrote.

You may clarify if you wish in order that I can respond specifically to your question or claim.

 

[Oldmantook]

The law never saved anyone, certainly true. But the wrath of the law took many lives in Israel.
Indeed. Disobedience to God as dictated in the law of God results not only in physical death but spiritual death as well.

The law was given to the nation of Israel and there is no record of the Gentile nations. Agreeing to obey the book of the law, Israel agreed three times but the Gentile nations never agreed to the book of the law, and were not bound by that law.

That would not be correct. The gentiles are bound by the same law. The earliest example of this is when the Israelites departed from Egypta some Egyptians apparently chose to leave Egypt with the Israelites. In the exodus, God told Moses and Aaron: “The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.” Ex 12:49

Yes I agree but you must quote the next line also.

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

We are no longer under a tutor, we are no longer under the law. We live by faith and not by obedience to the law.

Of course we are no longer under a tutor. The tutor leads us to faith in Christ. The job of the tutor is to instruct. That is what the law does; it instructs and leads us to Jesus. HOWEVER, once that is accomplished it does not mean that the law no longer exists. For example, suppose I don't know how to drive so I avail myself of a driving instructor who does a good job of tutoring me to successfully obtain my driving license. I have thus fulfilled my goal of getting my license. Once I get my license does the driving instructor no longer exist? Do the traffic laws no longer need to be obeyed? Contrary to your claim, faith is obedience to the law made possible by the atonement which now writes the law upon our hearts with the grace that God provides. We no longer strive to obey the law with our flesh which Israel repeatedly failed at.

We establish the law and everyone is condemned and that is the point Paul is really arguing in Romans.

Yes the law brings condemnation for those who disobey it. Paul in writing to the brethren in Rome sternly warned them that if they live according to the flesh, they will die. (Rom 8:12-13)

You are not under the law!

Do you obey the food laws?

Do you recognize the priesthood descended from Aaron?

Will you sacrifice animals for your sin?

Do you offer up burnt offerings?

Do you strictly abide by the health laws?

Wait there's a whole lot more.

I'm afraid that the law has been annulled.

The you will have to argue your point with Jesus himself who plainly stated that he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill them. And you claim the law is annulled?
Yes I obey the food laws and whatever I can obey. It is a process. There is no priesthood and no more animal sacrifices so I don't do that. However such practices will be reinstituted in the Millennium as detailed in Eze 43-46. If the law has been annulled as you claim, why do the feasts and sacrifices take place during the millennium?

The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin now.

You are under the law of Christ and not the law of Moses.

The law of Christ is rooted in the law of Moses. The sermon on the mount is rooted in the law and even exceeds the law but the law remains. For example the law states that physical adultery is wrong. Jesus stated that not only is physical adultery wrong but lusting after another person is also wrong. Thus BOTH are wrong as the former is not done away with or annulled is it?

 

[Oldmantook]

Who said anything about abolished? The law is fulfilled, it is not abolished.

Since it is fulfilled, do we no longer need to obey it? Yes or No?