I myself am not under the law

[Oldmantook]

The Holy Spirit.. Who's, btw, not once indicated to me anything about dietary laws, or pilgrimage laws, or sacrificial laws, circumcision laws etc.

My sacrifice is my life lived to Christ, my pilgrimage is prayer through the Spirit and worship of Him wherever I am in this earth, I fulfill all the laws I am under, the law of the Spirit, via love, love first to God, love second to man...

That doesn't include levitical law which Christ fulfilled. When you put yourself under the law, you announce to the world a worthless grace and a useless Christ hence it is written:

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galatians 5:4

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." Galatians 5:6

We are to be the light of Christ to the world, not the best lawyers in it.

So...the Holy Spirit has indicated to me otherwise. Your prerogative to believe as you wish!

 

[not under law]

The Holy Spirit.. Who's, btw, not once indicated to me anything about dietary laws, or pilgrimage laws, or sacrificial laws, circumcision laws etc.

My sacrifice is my life lived to Christ, my pilgrimage is prayer through the Spirit and worship of Him wherever I am in this earth, I fulfill all the laws I am under, the law of the Spirit, via love, love first to God, love second to man...

That doesn't include levitical law which Christ fulfilled. When you put yourself under the law, you announce to the world a worthless grace and a useless Christ hence it is written:

".

I realise that what I will again write is not for those who love to theologically debate which laws a Christian is to follow, however, I will once again repeat it. Under the new covenant the law God wants you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart by God Himself(Jeremiah31, Heb8&10) Through the law we become conscious of sin(rom 3:20)
Therefore, according to basic biblical facts, you must be conscious in your mind and heart as to what sin is. And therefore, if you fail to follow the law within you, you must be conscious of sin by doing so in your heart and mind. Neither you or I are conscious we sin by failing to follow the Levitical law. So, if we accept the new covenant, and the fact the law makes us conscious of sin, there is only two possibilities here. Either the Levitical law has not been written in the hearts and minds of believers, or, no one can be a Christian unless they are conscious they sin by failing to follow that law. If the latter were true, the majority of churches in my country and yours would cease to exist

 

[Josheb]

Paul is quoted saying this in 1 Cor 9:20. My question is which law is he referring to? Torah/Mosaic law or something else?

Torah, but you should also note that Paul is writing about a very, very specific context; that of evangelizing the Jews. You will also note that elsewhere, when Paul writes about the larger issue of the law he (and James) is writing solely about finding justification and righteousness in the law, not all other conditions in which the law might remain applicable. You will also not that in this 1 Cor. 9 passage Paul actually applies the law to himself to support his position in verse 9.

 

[Oldmantook]

I realise that what I will again write is not for those who love to theologically debate which laws a Christian is to follow, however, I will once again repeat it. Under the new covenant the law God wants you to follow is written in your mind and placed on your heart by God Himself(Jeremiah31, Heb8&10) Through the law we become conscious of sin(rom 3:20)
Therefore, according to basic biblical facts, you must be conscious in your mind and heart as to what sin is. And therefore, if you fail to follow the law within you, you must be conscious of sin by doing so in your heart and mind. Neither you or I are conscious we sin by failing to follow the Levitical law. So, if we accept the new covenant, and the fact the law makes us conscious of sin, there is only two possibilities here. Either the Levitical law has not been written in the hearts and minds of believers, or, no one can be a Christian unless they are conscious they sin by failing to follow that law. If the latter were true, the majority of churches in my country and yours would cease to exist

I love to theologically debate as I graduated from seminary and the truth matters does it not? Debate for the sake of debate is useless to me.
For the believer, the law is written upon the heart but that does not mean the law is abolished - it still exists upon our hearts. The Levitical law is written upon the heart of a regenerated believer BUT each believer has the choice of whether to obey the law by sinning or not sinning against it. WE can grieve or not grieve the Holy Spirit. We can choose to live according to the flesh or live according to the Spirit. An unbeliever on the other hand can only live according to the flesh since he has not been regenerated in the spirit. The law causes the unbeliever to repent once he is made conscious of the fact that he has sinned against the law and needs to be saved through faith in Jesus.

 

[not under law]

I love to theologically debate as I graduated from seminary and the truth matters does it not? Debate for the sake of debate is useless to me.
For the believer, the law is written upon the heart but that does not mean the law is abolished - it still exists upon our hearts. The Levitical law is written upon the heart of a regenerated believer BUT each believer has the choice of whether to obey the law by sinning or not sinning against it. WE can grieve or not grieve the Holy Spirit. We can choose to live according to the flesh or live according to the Spirit. An unbeliever on the other hand can only live according to the flesh since he has not been regenerated in the spirit. The law causes the unbeliever to repent once he is made conscious of the fact that he has sinned against the law and needs to be saved through faith in Jesus.

Thank you for your post, but I do not see how it addressed what I wrote.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Thank you for your post, but I do not see how it addressed what I wrote.

I believe he believes Christians are under levitical law and if we don't believe that and follow it we aren't Christian in his estimation...

That's what I read his post to mean anyway..

 

[not under law]

I believe he believes Christians are under levitical law and if we don't believe that and follow it we aren't Christian in his estimation...

That's what I read his post to mean anyway..

I have not read all his posts, so I cannot say. But if he believes you are unsaved if you do not follow the Levitical law, at least he would be drawing his conclusions upon consideration of the basis of the new covenant according to his personal beliefs.

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

 

[not under law]

It's just not my faith.... I'm not going to a religious leader anytime soon and inquiring as to how many steps I am allowed to walk on a Sabbath or make annual pilgrimages or go back to sacrificing lambs....

Been there, done that got the T-shirt. Christ said His yoke is easy and His burden light, and I've found that to be true as a saved believer.

It is not a law written in ink for the believer, but a law written by the Spirit of God on tablets of human hearts. So, would a person know instinctively in their heart and mind they should follow Torah law, and know what that law states, or, would they firstly have to read law written in ink to believe that?

 

[Hazelelponi]

It is not a law written in ink for the believer, but a law written by the Spirit of God on tablets of human hearts. So, would a person know instinctively in their heart and mind they should follow Torah law, and know what that law states, or, would they firstly have to read law written in ink to believe that?

I've read the law.

Are you going to sacrifice a lamb anytime soon?

Are you going to be stoning anyone for adultery?

Are you going to be teaching all the washing rituals?

It's not rocket science, as Isaiah said:

This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

 

[pasifika]

It is not a law written in ink for the believer, but a law written by the Spirit of God on tablets of human hearts. So, would a person know instinctively in their heart and mind they should follow Torah law, and know what that law states, or, would they firstly have to read law written in ink to believe that?

Hello, to add one thing about the law is that the Gentiles who do not have the law, do by "nature" things required by the law, they are law for themselves, eventhough they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts....Romans 2:14

 

[not under law]

Hello, to add one thing about the law is that the Gentiles who do not have the law, do by "nature" things required by the law, they are law for themselves, eventhough they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts....Romans 2:14

Do you think Gentiles who do not have the written law would do by nature what Torah law asks?

 

[pasifika]

Do you think Gentiles who do not have the written law would do by nature what Torah law asks?

I think the whole Torah is based on mercy, just and faithfulness...so even without the written law (Torah), people shown mercy, kindness, just to an extent and some shown more and others less but its the good "nature".... we (humans ) were created by the One whom all these good nature comes from, unfortunately sin has corrupted this good nature and put in evil to be another nature... (good &evil)

 

[not under law]

I think the whole Torah is based on mercy, just and faithfulness...so even without the written law (Torah), people shown mercy, kindness, just to an extent and some shown more and others less but its the good "nature".... we (humans ) were created by the One whom all these good nature comes from, unfortunately sin has corrupted this good nature and put in evil to be another nature... (good &evil)

Hello, to add one thing about the law is that the Gentiles who do not have the law, do by "nature" things required by the law, they are law for themselves, eventhough they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts....Romans 2:14

But would people by nature observe all specific Torah law without firstly reading in ink what Torah states?

 

[klutedavid]

I never wrote nor implied that he was in a rush to get to the temple. It is a pilgrimage requirement to be in Jerusalem.


Indeed trying to obey the letter of the law is futile and incurs God's wrath.

Well we agree on this so far.

The law never saved anyone however that does not mean the law was abolished as Jesus himself stated that he did not come to abolish the law or the prophets but to fulfill them (Matt 5:17).

The law never saved anyone, certainly true. But the wrath of the law took many lives in Israel.

The law was given to the nation of Israel and there is no record of the Gentile nations. Agreeing to obey the book of the law, Israel agreed three times but the Gentile nations never agreed to the book of the law, and were not bound by that law.

Scripture states that the law is our tutor/guardian that points to Jesus as the fulfillment of the law (Gal 3:24).

Yes I agree but you must quote the next line also.

Galatians 3:24-25
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

We are no longer under a tutor, we are no longer under the law. We live by faith and not by obedience to the law.

Paul wrote "Do we then make void the law through faith? No, in no wise, to the contrary we establish the law" (Rom 3:31). No one is justified by the law but through the law comes knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20).

We establish the law and everyone is condemned and that is the point Paul is really arguing in Romans.

It is quite obvious by these verses that the law was not done away with. Think about it.

You are not under the law!

Do you obey the food laws?

Do you recognize the priesthood descended from Aaron?

Will you sacrifice animals for your sin?

Do you offer up burnt offerings?

Do you strictly abide by the health laws?

Wait there's a whole lot more.

I'm afraid that the law has been annulled.

If the law was abolished, then there would be no knowledge of what constitutes as sin (Rom 3:20) and how would sinners then repent if they did not know what to repent of?

The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin now.

You are under the law of Christ and not the law of Moses.

 

[pasifika]

Hello, to add one thing about the law is that the Gentiles who do not have the law, do by "nature" things required by the law, they are law for themselves, eventhough they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts....Romans 2:14

But would people by nature observe all specific Torah law without firstly reading in ink what Torah states?

The Torah (written ) was introduced 430years after the covenant with Abraham...Galatians 3:17

So we know Noah, Enoch, Abel, Abraham and other Righteous people live good lives accepted by God way before the Torah was introduced....

 

[klutedavid]

Hello, to add one thing about the law is that the Gentiles who do not have the law, do by "nature" things required by the law, they are law for themselves, eventhough they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts....Romans 2:14

But would people by nature observe all specific Torah law without firstly reading in ink what Torah states?

No one notices that the Gentiles were never under the law and for some unknown reason.

 

[not under law]

The Torah (written ) was introduced 430years after the covenant with Abraham...Galatians 3:17

So we know Noah, Enoch, Abel, Abraham and other Righteous people live good lives accepted by God way before the Torah was introduced....

You and I both know, no one would by nature obey the law of Torah, they would have to firstly read what is written in ink in their bibles

 

[pasifika]

You and I both know, no one would by nature obey the law of Torah, they would have to firstly read what is written in ink in their bibles

Love is the fulfilment of the Law...Romans 13:10....don't need the Torah to tell you that...But if you have the Spirit you will show God's Love...it a gift! God give it to whoever He desire either Jew, gentiles etc

 

[not under law]

Love is the fulfilment of the Law...Romans 13:10....don't need the Torah to tell you that...But if you have the Spirit you will show God's Love...it a gift! God give it to whoever He desire either Jew, gentiles etc

Yes, love is the fulfilment of the law. But without reading law written in ink, no matter how much you love others you will not by nature obey/follow the Levitical law