I may have two big problems: one, OCD and two: being outside of kingdom

Bob8102

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I know I keep going back and forth between thinking I'm a Christian and thinking I'm not one. And between posting in "OCD" and posting in "Struggles by non-Christians." That's the way it goes for me.

I may have two big problems, not just one. One problem is my OCD, which, if I am a Christian, makes me doubt my salvation. But the other problem may be that I really am not a Christian, that I am outside the kingdom of heaven.

My problem has multiple facets. One is this kind of thing, for example: I can latch onto a verse such as "He who would come to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek for Him." I can think of this verse, and start repeating it over and over. As I repeat it, I cycle between starting to seriously respond to it and beginning to try to diligently seek for God/Jesus, and then just repeating it as a chant, kind of as if it were a mantra. I cease from seriously trying to diligently seek for God after seconds, and just continue repeating the words. Then I realize this, and go back to seriously seeking for a few seconds, then slip into mantra-mode again.

Do I really want God/Jesus? I don't want to go to hell. I want eternal life. But I am lazy and have a tendency to start doing something, then, when it becomes difficult, to give up and stop it. I start reaching for salvation, then realize that it's not going to be easy to obtain. Then, I just figure salvation is out of reach, and I stop striving. But I also have a permanent realization of the consequences of not being saved. So i make another go at it, which, again, does not succeed.

I do ask for prayer.

Also, let me add this: I do various things, such as repeatedly looking up the "Romans Road to Salvation," or seeking out conversion-to-Christ testimonies on the internet. I seek testimonies that go into detail about the moment of salvation. That's because I am obsessed with the moment of salvation. I guess that's because, I figure, if one can have a real, good, genuine moment of salvation, then they can be sure they're saved after that. And then they can just take it easy, right? Like, I said, I'm lazy. Jesus could say to me "You lazy and wicked servant! By your own words I will judge you."

For someone to keep up the Christian walk their entire life, they must be born again. I used to read and get really bothered over John 3. That's about the new birth. I would be bothered because I know no one can "birth" themselves. This gets into election vs. free will. I would wonder, maybe I'm not of the elect. But I have come to realize that election and free will are two sides of the same supernatural coin, which we cannot figure out. Trying to figure out election vs. free will is like trying to figure out the Trinity. We cannot. It has to do with characteristics of God which are beyond our comprehension. The advice I have learned is: Do not fret about election. You can't do anything about that. Concentrate on the free will side of the coin, wherein, God and the Bible say, "Repent!"
 

Nancy Hale

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You can't think about Christ and wanting to be a Christian unless God places it on your heart. It's God longing for you that you're responding too, not the other way around, so there's no need for you to worry about that. God wants you. God loves you.
John 6:44 (NIV)
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
 
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Jeshu

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I guess that's because, I figure, if one can have a real, good, genuine moment of salvation, then they can be sure they're saved after that. And then they can just take it easy, right?

1 Peter 4:18 came to mind. "And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”"

No that is not right, a conversion experience is but the beginning of a long hard narrow road. i suggest you don't just copy someone else's conversion but seek the Lord while He can be found in your own life.

Peace.
 
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Bob8102

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Jeshu wrote that a conversion experience is but the beginning of a long, hard, narrow road. Jesus said, "Wide is the gate and broad is the way which leads to destruction, and many there are that are on it. Narrow is the gate, and difficult is the way, which leads to life, and few there be that find it." He also said, "Strive to enter by the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will try to enter but not be able." Trying to enter and not being able seems to be a picture of me.

The long, hard narrow road: what if one follows this for five years and then quits? Or five months? Or five days? Or five minutes? The general response to such questions is: that person was never saved to begin with.

What does one have to do to be saved?
 
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anna ~ grace

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I know I keep going back and forth between thinking I'm a Christian and thinking I'm not one. And between posting in "OCD" and posting in "Struggles by non-Christians." That's the way it goes for me.

I may have two big problems, not just one. One problem is my OCD, which, if I am a Christian, makes me doubt my salvation. But the other problem may be that I really am not a Christian, that I am outside the kingdom of heaven.

My problem has multiple facets. One is this kind of thing, for example: I can latch onto a verse such as "He who would come to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek for Him." I can think of this verse, and start repeating it over and over. As I repeat it, I cycle between starting to seriously respond to it and beginning to try to diligently seek for God/Jesus, and then just repeating it as a chant, kind of as if it were a mantra. I cease from seriously trying to diligently seek for God after seconds, and just continue repeating the words. Then I realize this, and go back to seriously seeking for a few seconds, then slip into mantra-mode again.

Do I really want God/Jesus? I don't want to go to hell. I want eternal life. But I am lazy and have a tendency to start doing something, then, when it becomes difficult, to give up and stop it. I start reaching for salvation, then realize that it's not going to be easy to obtain. Then, I just figure salvation is out of reach, and I stop striving. But I also have a permanent realization of the consequences of not being saved. So i make another go at it, which, again, does not succeed.

I do ask for prayer.

Also, let me add this: I do various things, such as repeatedly looking up the "Romans Road to Salvation," or seeking out conversion-to-Christ testimonies on the internet. I seek testimonies that go into detail about the moment of salvation. That's because I am obsessed with the moment of salvation. I guess that's because, I figure, if one can have a real, good, genuine moment of salvation, then they can be sure they're saved after that. And then they can just take it easy, right? Like, I said, I'm lazy. Jesus could say to me "You lazy and wicked servant! By your own words I will judge you."

For someone to keep up the Christian walk their entire life, they must be born again. I used to read and get really bothered over John 3. That's about the new birth. I would be bothered because I know no one can "birth" themselves. This gets into election vs. free will. I would wonder, maybe I'm not of the elect. But I have come to realize that election and free will are two sides of the same supernatural coin, which we cannot figure out. Trying to figure out election vs. free will is like trying to figure out the Trinity. We cannot. It has to do with characteristics of God which are beyond our comprehension. The advice I have learned is: Do not fret about election. You can't do anything about that. Concentrate on the free will side of the coin, wherein, God and the Bible say, "Repent!"

You've got a lot going on there. I won't lie, a number of Christians have come on here panicing about the same topics, and many of them report also struggling with ocd.

I know a man who also struggles with this; he was raised Anglican, and has had a few moments in his life where he felt called to follow Christ more deeply, and many times where he has seen God answer prayer, close doors, and open others. He has a deep respect for Holy Scripture and tries to live it out as best he can, and has a prayer life.

But he doesn't have an "a-ha", conversion moment. And thanks to later exposure to Charismatic / Pentecostal and Baptistic theology later in life, which puts a lot of emphasis on the born again experience and which asks "are you saved?", he's now struggling.

What I have told him, and which seems to help him, is "it's a journey". Our salvation is a journey. What many Protestant Christians would call the "sanctification process", is actually the journey of our salvation. Christ saves us through faith, not just once, or in a moment, but throughout our lives. And He saves us through the works of loving obedience that we do for Him, out of love for Him, for which He supplies the grace and strength. It's a journey, and a walk.

This seems to help him. This is what I have finally come to conclude, too. So, the question is no longer "are you saved?", though I definitely still understand what Christians mean by that. But rather "are you following and living for Christ, friend? Are you reliant on Him for everything, do you love Him, trust Him, continually repent of your sins as you commit them, stay within His Holy Will, and go to Him for everything?"

That's not something that we can do only in an instant, it's a journey. I know Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran Christians who are on that journey. We do not agree on everything, but the amount that we have in common is pretty staggering.

I have met Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran Christians who, sadly, seem to have little to no love of Christ, or interest in Him, no respect for Scripture, yet they attend church often, and would describe themselves as Christians. I don't know, but the fruits don't seem to be there. So, there's that. God knows.

Take it easy on yourself. Calm down, friend. If you cooperate with God's grace, you have been saved, you are being saved, and with His help, and by His mercy and grace, if you continue in Christ, you shall be saved.
 
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Bob8102

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Thanks, Gracia. Earlier today, I started saying to Jesus, "Jesus, please help me. It's as if I cannot take my eyes off myself and put them on You."

I tend to view all my past, repeated conversions to Christ as fake. It's as if, after I think I've given Him my life, the challenge occurs: "Did you really give Him your life?" If I say, "Yes, I really gave Him my life," then the question is: "Did you really, really give Him your life?' If I say, "Yes, I really, really gave Him my life," then the question is: "Did you really, really, really give Him your life?" And so on. It only takes to much of this before I figure I have not really given Him my life.

I sometimes remember the verse from Acts, which says, "[God] now commands all men everywhere to repent." I figure if that's something God is commanding us to do, I'd better do it, and right now. And if He is commanding us to do it, then it must be something we can do, right? Then, I try to repent. But then I think that maybe i don't have an accurate picture of repentance. Maybe I view repentance as some kind of ritual. When I think, "Go now commands us to repent," maybe I think, "I'd better do that ritual, right away." On a number of occasions, on trying to obey that command to repent, I have realized that i cannot live the way God wants me to on my own strength. So I look up to and cry out to Him, "Take me!" As in, "take control; I can't do this on my own." That's what a friend of mine said he said, the moment he gave his life to Christ: "Take me!" But what if my "take me's" are fake? I often cannot tell the difference between me being fake and me being real.

Along the lines of not being sure if I'm for real, is the possibility that I am "submitting" to a false version of Jesus, in my head. It may be that there are so many layers of fantasy/imagination in my head, that I don't poke through them all and get to the real Jesus. Or, to put it the other way around, I don't let the real Jesus through all the layers to get to me.

As to salvation being a journey: I understand sanctification is a journey, but salvation occurs in a moment. Jesus told the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven." But that is one incredible moment. That's why I am obsessed with the moment of salvation.
 
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anna ~ grace

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Thanks, Gracia. Earlier today, I started saying to Jesus, "Jesus, please help me. It's as if I cannot take my eyes off myself and put them on You."

I tend to view all my past, repeated conversions to Christ as fake. It's as if, after I think I've given Him my life, the challenge occurs: "Did you really give Him your life?" If I say, "Yes, I really gave Him my life," then the question is: "Did you really, really give Him your life?' If I say, "Yes, I really, really gave Him my life," then the question is: "Did you really, really, really give Him your life?" And so on. It only takes to much of this before I figure I have not really given Him my life.

I sometimes remember the verse from Acts, which says, "[God] now commands all men everywhere to repent." I figure if that's something God is commanding us to do, I'd better do it, and right now. And if He is commanding us to do it, then it must be something we can do, right? Then, I try to repent. But then I think that maybe i don't have an accurate picture of repentance. Maybe I view repentance as some kind of ritual. When I think, "Go now commands us to repent," maybe I think, "I'd better do that ritual, right away." On a number of occasions, on trying to obey that command to repent, I have realized that i cannot live the way God wants me to on my own strength. So I look up to and cry out to Him, "Take me!" As in, "take control; I can't do this on my own." That's what a friend of mine said he said, the moment he gave his life to Christ: "Take me!" But what if my "take me's" are fake? I often cannot tell the difference between me being fake and me being real.

Along the lines of not being sure if I'm for real, is the possibility that I am "submitting" to a false version of Jesus, in my head. It may be that there are so many layers of fantasy/imagination in my head, that I don't poke through them all and get to the real Jesus. Or, to put it the other way around, I don't let the real Jesus through all the layers to get to me.

As to salvation being a journey: I understand sanctification is a journey, but salvation occurs in a moment. Jesus told the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven." But that is one incredible moment. That's why I am obsessed with the moment of salvation.

Hey, Bob. Well, a lot of this sounds like ocd. And scruples. So.... there is One Jesus.

Repentance is actually understanding that one has done wrong, deeply regretting doing that wrong, and doing right instead. Every time we mess up, and realize it, we are called in Christ to repent. It's like falling and getting up again.
 
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Jeshu

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What does one have to do to be saved?

To be saved believe in Jesus Christ as God's Son who died for the sins of the world to save you and repent of your sins - time and again - until you arrive at the Door of Heaven.

To believe in Christ is not just an one off experience but a life long process of believing, trusting, growing in good and letting go of what is not right. To love God and neighbour is the command. Learn to love God then you will also love your neighbour.

The thankfulness that grows in your heart because Jesus loves you even while you were still a sinner will bring the heavenly Joy - time and again.

Be of good courage seeking after God is the Spirit of God within you. Letting the truths of Scripture guide you on your way is the wisest thing to do. The living Word is the voice you are after.

Peace.
 
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