Lulav

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Many believe that we can't know when Yeshua was born because it doesn't say in the bible.
However it also doesn't say he was born on December 25th either. Which with common sense one would know that couldn't happen as the Hebrew calendar is different and therefore couldn't be the same day every year. Makes it convenient for retailers and workers to get the same day off but it's just not feasible.

However there are some hints to be found, not just in the New Testament but also in the so called 'old'.


Let's start with Luke's announcement, he sets the scene, we hear of a census which brought both Joseph and Mary to their place of birth, Bethlehem.
Bethlehem is just outside Jerusalem, approx 4-5 miles away.

Luke 2 tells us that there were shepherds in the fields, watching over their flocks by night.
this tells us a few things,
1. The sheep were 'out in the fields'
2. They were 'watching' them, even over night.

This gives us two big clues at what time of year this was. Since they were just outside Jerusalem, and the Temple, it has been surmised that these weren't just any sheep, but were the sheep raised for sacrifices in the Temple.

They were out in the fields which means that the temperatures had to be mild.

It was Spring -- this is the 'lambing time' and they were being watched because when a sheep is getting ready to 'lamb' the few days leading up to it they will start to behave differently and the shepherd then knows their time is close at hand.

Lambs are born in the Spring, I'm sure you all have seen them along with the Bunnies and eggs at 'easter time', that is because they are considered a harbinger of spring.

In the Talmud it is recorded that the shepherds would only be out in the fields from March until the next rainy season, in autumn.

Ex 12:3 on the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household........... Must be a year old male.

In order for the Passover lambs to be one year old on the 10th of Nissan they had to have been born the previous year at the same time.

The Passover lambs are born in the Spring and Die in the Spring, in Nisan.

The first Hebrew Holy Day given to Israel is what is called 'Palm Sunday' in Christian churches.
This day was the day he rode in on the donkey.
This day was the day the people lined the roads and waved the Lulav ( :) ) at him.
This day was Exodus 12:3.
This day it was the 10th of Nissan.

This lamb was to be selected and brought in to the house, Yeshua rode in to Jerusalem and went to the House of G-d. That is when he 'cleaned his house'.

So most agree that Yeshua fulfilled Passover, First Fruits but many don't know that 'Palm Sunday' is the Jewish Holiday of the 10th of Nissan when the lambs were selected.
Keeping with the fulfillment of choosing the lamb, killing the lamb and the first fruits there is another Holy Day that would fulfill the birth, new beginning, Yeshua who said "Behold I am making all things NEW'.

On the first day of the first month of the year, the day called the 1st of Nissan, begins the year from G-d's calculations. On this day it is the day of the 'new moon'. This occurs once a month but there is only one time it is at the beginning of the year and that is Nissan 1.

What would be a better time for Yeshua to have been born?

Joseph, keeping Torah would have been able to be in Bethlehem at this time as although a holy day it is not one of the Pilgrimage days.

This beginning of the New Year takes us from one year to another, the calendar changes.

And what happened when Yeshua was born? The earth got a new calendar and still today in non secular places it is referred to as BC and AD, standing for (BC) Before Christ and (AD) After Death. Some use BCE as before common era and CE as Common era but the event of Yeshua's birth still changed the way we refer to history, either before he came or after.

And there's more.............
Hebrew calendar is based on the moon.

The beginning of the month is the New Moon, 14-15 days later the moon is at it's fullness. Yeshua born on the new moon and died on the full moon (fullness also meaning the fullfillment of it).

The Stars---The Magi --Zoroastrianism -- Isaiah 60:1-6 Prophecy

Arise, Shine for you light has come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon you!... Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn........A multitude of camels will cover your land and they will bring gold and frankincense and will bear good news of the praises of the L-RD.

Matthew tells us that that after Yeshua was born in Bethlehem in Judea the Magi from the east came to Jerusalem looking for him, the one born, 'King of the Jews'.

How would they know about this? Matthew tells us that they were from the east. Now East of Jerusalem is Babylon where the captivity took place. Where there were those that served the King (Nebuchadnezzar) as prophets and seers. Daniel was put in the high position over all 'wisemen' (Daniel 2:48)
These prophecies they must have shared with the Babylonian wisemen and/or their scrolls were copied and studied by these men after many had returned to Jerusalem years later. There were of course many Jews still living in Babylon at the time, many had decided to stay in that land instead of returning in Ezra's day.

They saw his star and followed it, it took them almost two years to get there and go to Jerusalem and then from there find out where he was. Meanwhile Herod orders all boys two and under to be slain. Thankfully they were warned and had moved to Egypt to stay with some of the Jewish community there. They returned when Herod died which was in 4bc, so Yeshua most likely was born in 6bc.

So what was that star? Around 6bc there was a conjunction of Jupiter (King Star), Saturn, Venus, Mars.... Ptolemy recorded that the Land of Judea (Israel) and it's surrounding regions were linked to the Constellation of Aries, the RAM. This conjunction was in Aries constellation. This conjunction happens only every 6,000 years.

This happened in the Spring of 6 bc (Nissan)

Luke 1 in the days of Herod a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah (Father - Yah) he was chosen by lot to burn the incense. This was only allowed once per a priests lifetime of service.

Abijah was one of the 12 courses that King David has ordered to serve in the temple. (See I Chronicles 24 to learn more about the courses of the priests (Priests were descendants of Aaron). You will find that Abijah was the 8th course.

I've worked on trying to pinpoint when the courses started as that is the only way to determine when this 8th course was happening. The answer is found in the DDS (Dead Sea Scrolls). It wasn't a yearly calendar though, it went for years so date had to be found in order to line things up.

Sounding like something out of Hollywood and the Indian Jones saga here is what was used to determine the date.

....To display itself from the east, and shine in the centre of the sky, at the base of the vault, from evening to morning, on the fourth of the week of the sons of Gamul, in the first month of the year. (Gamul is one of the courses, and it is saying that the calendar begins on a Wednesday on the Spring Equinox.

Confirming this is in the Talmud, Temple destroyed on a Sunday in 70AD, and the course that was serving was given.

It was then calculated that when comparing what was in the Talmud with what was in the DDS Yeshua was more than likely born on March 20, 6 bc which was Nissan 1


Found in the Vatican Library a writing by Hippolitus (early church father) he is the one who suggested the date of December 25th but in this writing you can see what he originally wrote was crossed out and the date of December 25th was written in.

The date that was redacted? says that the Messiah was born in the month of Nissan.


Now to tie it all together. When we look at the Torah we see many things that point to Messiah. There's Abraham and Isaac, Joseph, Moses and more, but what symbolizes him the best?

John gives us a very visual hint.

"The word became flesh and 'tabernacled' among us"

This has caused many to believe that Yeshua was born in the Fall, during Sukkot, the week of dwelling in tents, but not so, the Main Tent was the Tent of Meeting, aka The Tabernacle.

This was G-ds House or dwelling place in the wilderness amoung his people.

Ex 40:17

So the tabernacle was set up on the first day of the first month in the second year.


In the third month they came to the mountain and G-d gave his Torah and instructions on how to build the dwelling place. When you count from the third month to the first month it is 9 months, the same time it takes for gestation of a baby boy (or girl).


The Tabernacle was set up on Nissan 1 on the New Moon.


This is my paraphrasing from a program by Jonathan Cahn Messianic Rabbi and best selling writer.
 

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No one knows on which day Christ was born. The choice made by the Christian church is, therefore, arbitrary. So would the choice of any other day (in spring, summer, or autumn, for example) be arbitrary.

If that is the way it is, wouldn't the choice of the day that was popularly believed, in antiquity, to be the right date thanks to the assumption that Christ was killed on the anniversary of his conception, be as good as any other?
 
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dfw69

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Many believe that we can't know when Yeshua was born because it doesn't say in the bible.
However it also doesn't say he was born on December 25th either. Which with common sense one would know that couldn't happen as the Hebrew calendar is different and therefore couldn't be the same day every year. Makes it convenient for retailers and workers to get the same day off but it's just not feasible.

However there are some hints to be found, not just in the New Testament but also in the so called 'old'.


Let's start with Luke's announcement, he sets the scene, we hear of a census which brought both Joseph and Mary to their place of birth, Bethlehem.
Bethlehem is just outside Jerusalem, approx 4-5 miles away.

Luke 2 tells us that there were shepherds in the fields, watching over their flocks by night.
this tells us a few things,
1. The sheep were 'out in the fields'
2. They were 'watching' them, even over night.

This gives us two big clues at what time of year this was. Since they were just outside Jerusalem, and the Temple, it has been surmised that these weren't just any sheep, but were the sheep raised for sacrifices in the Temple.

They were out in the fields which means that the temperatures had to be mild.

It was Spring -- this is the 'lambing time' and they were being watched because when a sheep is getting ready to 'lamb' the few days leading up to it they will start to behave differently and the shepherd then knows their time is close at hand.

Lambs are born in the Spring, I'm sure you all have seen them along with the Bunnies and eggs at 'easter time', that is because they are considered a harbinger of spring.

In the Talmud it is recorded that the shepherds would only be out in the fields from March until the next rainy season, in autumn.

Ex 12:3 on the tenth day of this month, each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household........... Must be a year old male.

In order for the Passover lambs to be one year old on the 10th of Nissan they had to have been born the previous year at the same time.

The Passover lambs are born in the Spring and Die in the Spring, in Nisan.

The first Hebrew Holy Day given to Israel is what is called 'Palm Sunday' in Christian churches.
This day was the day he rode in on the donkey.
This day was the day the people lined the roads and waved the Lulav ( :) ) at him.
This day was Exodus 12:3.
This day it was the 10th of Nissan.

This lamb was to be selected and brought in to the house, Yeshua rode in to Jerusalem and went to the House of G-d. That is when he 'cleaned his house'.

So most agree that Yeshua fulfilled Passover, First Fruits but many don't know that 'Palm Sunday' is the Jewish Holiday of the 10th of Nissan when the lambs were selected.
Keeping with the fulfillment of choosing the lamb, killing the lamb and the first fruits there is another Holy Day that would fulfill the birth, new beginning, Yeshua who said "Behold I am making all things NEW'.

On the first day of the first month of the year, the day called the 1st of Nissan, begins the year from G-d's calculations. On this day it is the day of the 'new moon'. This occurs once a month but there is only one time it is at the beginning of the year and that is Nissan 1.

What would be a better time for Yeshua to have been born?

Joseph, keeping Torah would have been able to be in Bethlehem at this time as although a holy day it is not one of the Pilgrimage days.

This beginning of the New Year takes us from one year to another, the calendar changes.

And what happened when Yeshua was born? The earth got a new calendar and still today in non secular places it is referred to as BC and AD, standing for (BC) Before Christ and (AD) After Death. Some use BCE as before common era and CE as Common era but the event of Yeshua's birth still changed the way we refer to history, either before he came or after.

And there's more.............
Hebrew calendar is based on the moon.

The beginning of the month is the New Moon, 14-15 days later the moon is at it's fullness. Yeshua born on the new moon and died on the full moon (fullness also meaning the fullfillment of it).

The Stars---The Magi --Zoroastrianism -- Isaiah 60:1-6 Prophecy

Arise, Shine for you light has come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon you!... Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn........A multitude of camels will cover your land and they will bring gold and frankincense and will bear good news of the praises of the L-RD.

Matthew tells us that that after Yeshua was born in Bethlehem in Judea the Magi from the east came to Jerusalem looking for him, the one born, 'King of the Jews'.

How would they know about this? Matthew tells us that they were from the east. Now East of Jerusalem is Babylon where the captivity took place. Where there were those that served the King (Nebuchadnezzar) as prophets and seers. Daniel was put in the high position over all 'wisemen' (Daniel 2:48)
These prophecies they must have shared with the Babylonian wisemen and/or their scrolls were copied and studied by these men after many had returned to Jerusalem years later. There were of course many Jews still living in Babylon at the time, many had decided to stay in that land instead of returning in Ezra's day.

They saw his star and followed it, it took them almost two years to get there and go to Jerusalem and then from there find out where he was. Meanwhile Herod orders all boys two and under to be slain. Thankfully they were warned and had moved to Egypt to stay with some of the Jewish community there. They returned when Herod died which was in 4bc, so Yeshua most likely was born in 6bc.

So what was that star? Around 6bc there was a conjunction of Jupiter (King Star), Saturn, Venus, Mars.... Ptolemy recorded that the Land of Judea (Israel) and it's surrounding regions were linked to the Constellation of Aries, the RAM. This conjunction was in Aries constellation. This conjunction happens only every 6,000 years.

This happened in the Spring of 6 bc (Nissan)

Luke 1 in the days of Herod a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah (Father - Yah) he was chosen by lot to burn the incense. This was only allowed once per a priests lifetime of service.

Abijah was one of the 12 courses that King David has ordered to serve in the temple. (See I Chronicles 24 to learn more about the courses of the priests (Priests were descendants of Aaron). You will find that Abijah was the 8th course.

I've worked on trying to pinpoint when the courses started as that is the only way to determine when this 8th course was happening. The answer is found in the DDS (Dead Sea Scrolls). It wasn't a yearly calendar though, it went for years so date had to be found in order to line things up.

Sounding like something out of Hollywood and the Indian Jones saga here is what was used to determine the date.

....To display itself from the east, and shine in the centre of the sky, at the base of the vault, from evening to morning, on the fourth of the week of the sons of Gamul, in the first month of the year. (Gamul is one of the courses, and it is saying that the calendar begins on a Wednesday on the Spring Equinox.

Confirming this is in the Talmud, Temple destroyed on a Sunday in 70AD, and the course that was serving was given.

It was then calculated that when comparing what was in the Talmud with what was in the DDS Yeshua was more than likely born on March 20, 6 bc which was Nissan 1


Found in the Vatican Library a writing by Hippolitus (early church father) he is the one who suggested the date of December 25th but in this writing you can see what he originally wrote was crossed out and the date of December 25th was written in.

The date that was redacted? says that the Messiah was born in the month of Nissan.


Now to tie it all together. When we look at the Torah we see many things that point to Messiah. There's Abraham and Isaac, Joseph, Moses and more, but what symbolizes him the best?

John gives us a very visual hint.

"The word became flesh and 'tabernacled' among us"

This has caused many to believe that Yeshua was born in the Fall, during Sukkot, the week of dwelling in tents, but not so, the Main Tent was the Tent of Meeting, aka The Tabernacle.

This was G-ds House or dwelling place in the wilderness amoung his people.

Ex 40:17

So the tabernacle was set up on the first day of the first month in the second year.


In the third month they came to the mountain and G-d gave his Torah and instructions on how to build the dwelling place. When you count from the third month to the first month it is 9 months, the same time it takes for gestation of a baby boy (or girl).


The Tabernacle was set up on Nissan 1 on the New Moon.


This is my paraphrasing from a program by Jonathan Cahn Messianic Rabbi and best selling writer.

Yahshua was born on Nissan 1?

Was it on his birthday( nissan1) that he entered the synagogue at the start of his ministry and said " today is the day of jubilee"?....

If so .... When was his baptism by John? ...And his new birth of the Holy spirit ?... Those moments may be significant....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I don't think this can all be accounted for in line with Cahn's estimation,
and what do you mean by "his new birth of the holy spirit" ?

https: // en . wikibooks . org/wiki/The_Pagan_Beliefs_Surrounding_Christmas/The_Date_Jesus_was_Born

"The Book of Luke tells us that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, [Luke 1:26]. The book also tells us when John was conceived so it is possible to approximate the time of John's birth...and that of Jesus.

John's father, Zechariah, served as a priest in the division of Abijah, [Luke 1:5]. His priestly duty entailed one week of temple service every year plus three more weeks during the three yearly festivals.

His division was the eighth so his period of temple service began in the eighth week of the year, [I Chronicles 24:10]. The Hebrew year, being lunar, began in the spring around late March early April. The eighth week would then generally fall around the first of June the way we show the months of the year on our calendar.

Luke 1:23-24 tells us that Elizabeth, John's mother, became pregnant right after Zechariah's service in the temple. This would have been mid June....approximately. This means that John the Baptist would have been born around mid March....or close to Passover. Jesus would have been conceived in John's sixth gestational month by the Holy Spirit, [Luke 1:26] which would have been December....so Jesus would have been born around the middle of September. This event would have probably taken place about the time of the last Hebrew Holiday of Sukkot,(Feast of Tabernacles). Since everyone was expected to travel to Jerusalem for the three annual feasts this is probably the real reason why there was no room in the inn."
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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AD, in Latin, does not stand for 'after death' it stands for 'in the year of our Lord'. So it means the exact opposite to what the OP has written.
Actually, 7 A.D. , or 70 A.D.,
means 7 A.D., or 70 A.D., IN USE<
no matter what someone thinks A.D. stands for (not "the exact opposite)
(and many people never think about this nor does it matter to them........ or does it ? ) ....
Be becoming like little children (in faith in Yahshua HaMashiach ! FOREVER :) ) .....
 
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dfw69

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I don't think this can all be accounted for in line with Cahn's estimation,
and what do you mean by "his new birth of the holy spirit" ?

She posted the possibility that yahahua birth was on Nissan 1 ....

With that I mind I wondered if on Nissan 1 he entered the synagogue when he started his ministry and said today is the year of jubilee ? Which would have been on his birthday if he was born on Nissan 1..

Then I wondered when was yahshua baptized to receive the Holy spirit in full measure? ....which is a picture of our new birth. Becoming born again through the Holy Spirit...It seems to me he was the first to receive this babtism of the Holy spirit ...

Then he was lead in the wilderness 40 days tempted of Satan.. .

That would mean yahshua was baptized in the winter and then lead to wilderness 40 days until he entered the synagogue to proclaim the jubilee year in the spring on Nissan 1st ???

"The Book of Luke tells us that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, [Luke 1:26]. The book also tells us when John was conceived so it is possible to approximate the time of John's birth...and that of Jesus.

John's father, Zechariah, served as a priest in the division of Abijah, [Luke 1:5]. His priestly duty entailed one week of temple service every year plus three more weeks during the three yearly festivals.

His division was the eighth so his period of temple service began in the eighth week of the year, [I Chronicles 24:10]. The Hebrew year, being lunar, began in the spring around late March early April. The eighth week would then generally fall around the first of June the way we show the months of the year on our calendar.

Luke 1:23-24 tells us that Elizabeth, John's mother, became pregnant right after Zechariah's service in the temple. This would have been mid June....approximately. This means that John the Baptist would have been born around mid March....or close to Passover. Jesus would have been conceived in John's sixth gestational month by the Holy Spirit, [Luke 1:26] which would have been December....so Jesus would have been born around the middle of September. This event would have probably taken place about the time of the last Hebrew Holiday of Sukkot,(Feast of Tabernacles). Since everyone was expected to travel to Jerusalem for the three annual feasts this is probably the real reason why there was no room in the inn."

Yes that makes sense....

What date do you suppose yahshua was baptized and received the Holy spirit? On SHAVUOT?

And what date did he enter the synagogue to proclaim the jubilee year? On his birthday, Sukkot?
 
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Lulav

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AD, in Latin, does not stand for 'after death' it stands for 'in the year of the Lord'. So it means the exact opposite to what the OP has written.
Silly me, did I put that? Being that it took me two watchings with pausing to write down to make it easier for those who don't like to take the time to view videos and that I'm sleep deprived for the past 3 months I'm amazed that this is the only boo-boo pointed out.

Actually I do know that the A.D. stands for Anno Domini. :doh:

Sorry a correction was all you got from reading all that.
 
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pinacled

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Silly me, did I put that? Being that it took me two watchings with pausing to write down to make it easier for those who don't like to take the time to view videos and that I'm sleep deprived for the past 3 months I'm amazed that this is the only boo-boo pointed out.

Actually I do know that the A.D. stands for Anno Domini. :doh:

Sorry a correction was all you got from reading all that.
ohh,
don't worry yourself over such a thing.

do you remember asking me what pinacled means?
I like to think you haven't forgotten.

You,
Are a daughter of wisdom.
And if anyone says other wise..

Well,
They should know better that to do such a thing.
 
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Lulav

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I don't think this can all be accounted for in line with Cahn's estimation,
and what do you mean by "his new birth of the holy spirit" ?

"The Book of Luke tells us that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, [Luke 1:26]. The book also tells us when John was conceived so it is possible to approximate the time of John's birth...and that of Jesus.

John's father, Zechariah, served as a priest in the division of Abijah, [Luke 1:5]. His priestly duty entailed one week of temple service every year plus three more weeks during the three yearly festivals.

His division was the eighth so his period of temple service began in the eighth week of the year, [I Chronicles 24:10]. The Hebrew year, being lunar, began in the spring around late March early April. The eighth week would then generally fall around the first of June the way we show the months of the year on our calendar.

Luke 1:23-24 tells us that Elizabeth, John's mother, became pregnant right after Zechariah's service in the temple. This would have been mid June....approximately. This means that John the Baptist would have been born around mid March....or close to Passover. Jesus would have been conceived in John's sixth gestational month by the Holy Spirit, [Luke 1:26] which would have been December....so Jesus would have been born around the middle of September. This event would have probably taken place about the time of the last Hebrew Holiday of Sukkot,(Feast of Tabernacles). Since everyone was expected to travel to Jerusalem for the three annual feasts this is probably the real reason why there was no room in the inn."

As I said, I've studied this for years but the thing was that we needed to know when the courses started, you do not get that the 8th course began on a certain time of year from what is in the Bible. That is what caught my eye about this whole thing and why I believe it's more than probable.

The course verification was made through writings in the Talmud and writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls. When compared, counting back from what was written in the Talmud and counting forward from what was written in the DDS the time matched.

The Talmud records what course was serving in 70AD when the Temple was destroyed. Historical documents record when that was. And we know it was the 10th of August, in A.D. 70 -- the 9th of Av.

It is interesting that the course that Zechariah was in is called Abi Yah which means 'Yah is my father' and the course following is called Yeshua. :)
 
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ralliann

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I don't think this can all be accounted for in line with Cahn's estimation,
and what do you mean by "his new birth of the holy spirit" ?

https: // en . wikibooks . org/wiki/The_Pagan_Beliefs_Surrounding_Christmas/The_Date_Jesus_was_Born

"The Book of Luke tells us that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, [Luke 1:26]. The book also tells us when John was conceived so it is possible to approximate the time of John's birth...and that of Jesus.

John's father, Zechariah, served as a priest in the division of Abijah, [Luke 1:5]. His priestly duty entailed one week of temple service every year plus three more weeks during the three yearly festivals.

His division was the eighth so his period of temple service began in the eighth week of the year, [I Chronicles 24:10]. The Hebrew year, being lunar, began in the spring around late March early April. The eighth week would then generally fall around the first of June the way we show the months of the year on our calendar.

Luke 1:23-24 tells us that Elizabeth, John's mother, became pregnant right after Zechariah's service in the temple. This would have been mid June....approximately. This means that John the Baptist would have been born around mid March....or close to Passover. Jesus would have been conceived in John's sixth gestational month by the Holy Spirit, [Luke 1:26] which would have been December....so Jesus would have been born around the middle of September. This event would have probably taken place about the time of the last Hebrew Holiday of Sukkot,(Feast of Tabernacles). Since everyone was expected to travel to Jerusalem for the three annual feasts this is probably the real reason why there was no room in the inn."
The courses overlapped the year. Plus each course served twice in the year (24 courses is only 24 weeks, To reconcile the calender in leap years another month was added.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Now you have one - Tishri 15, the first day of Sukkot/Tabernacles - which this year is Sept 30th (www.hebcal.com)

One of the biblical themes of Sukkot is HaShem dwelling with us.....



As I said, I've studied this for years but the thing was that we needed to know when the courses started, you do not get that the 8th course began on a certain time of year from what is in the Bible. That is what caught my eye about this whole thing and why I believe it's more than probable.

The course verification was made through writings in the Talmud and writings in the Dead Sea Scrolls. When compared, counting back from what was written in the Talmud and counting forward from what was written in the DDS the time matched.

The Talmud records what course was serving in 70AD when the Temple was destroyed. Historical documents record when that was. And we know it was the 10th of August, in A.D. 70 -- the 9th of Av.

It is interesting that the course that Zechariah was in is called Abi Yah which means 'Yah is my father' and the course following is called Yeshua.
 
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Heber Book List

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Silly me, did I put that? Being that it took me two watchings with pausing to write down to make it easier for those who don't like to take the time to view videos and that I'm sleep deprived for the past 3 months I'm amazed that this is the only boo-boo pointed out.

Actually I do know that the A.D. stands for Anno Domini. :doh:

Sorry a correction was all you got from reading all that.

It is a thread I shall re-read. I scanned though it quickly, and then became ill with heat exhaustion, from which I now am recovering. When I have read it carefully, I shall respond. There's a lot to think about. I, too, am of the opinion that his birthday was at feast of tabernacles.

The correction was important as you implied that the calendar year started from his death, in fact it started from his birth. It maybe a slip of the tongue, so to speak, but in a thread about dates it is important.
 
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I have re-read the OP, and I can see the appeal in believing he was born at Passover, but I believe he was born at Feast of Tabernacles; it makes as much (if not more) sense.

There is, in the Feast of Tabernacles, so much sense of the year closing, but also of the new starting. There are prayers begging Messiah to come, there is the closing of the year and ensuring your name is written in the Book of Life. There are prayers for water, so vital for life - John 7:38 where Messiah stands up and says to the people if any follows me streams of living water will flow from them. Liiving water is a metaphor of Torah, and Isaiah 2:3 says out of Zion will go forth the Law and the word of Lord from Jerusalem, and it happened in reality at the time of Simchat Torah, which follows on from the feast.

Then there are sacrifices for the nations, when the 70 bulls are sacrificed for the Goyim, and they pray for Israel on the 8th day of Feast. It is so obviously a time of closing one year, and being thankful for all the blessings G_d has poured on them, but then comes the word of the Lord - surely you cannot miss the relevance of that - the word became flesh and lived among us, as John says in the opening verses to his gospel.

Why wait until its almost the season of Passover?
 
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Lulav

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Why wait until Passover? Wait from when?

The time to start Israels calendar ( given to them in Egypt was before the plagues were completed) was the Spring.

Yes the first thing they did was to secure a lamb on the tenth day and four days later came the last plague and the Passover.
However the first of that month, nothing was done in Egypt.

Many believe Yeshua fulfilled the Spring feasts but they only mention:
  1. Passover
  2. Feast of unleavened bread
  3. First fruits
Some will add in Shavuot, which is actually in Summer, and then say that there are 3 left to fulfill of the Seven feasts of the L-RD.

However when we read this in Exodus it looks like there is one not mentioned.

1 And the L-RD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house.........
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.​

So from that we learn that the month they were in (which we know as Nissan but which was also known as 'Aviv'), was to be the beginning of all the months of the year to them.
And that on the 10th day they were to do something as well as the 14th day.

Revelation tells us:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

The Beginning would be Nissan 1 New moon
The Ending would be the Feasts of Tabernacles and the eighth day

The Beginning of the year, the very first day is Nissan 1. The OP is about showing that is the birth day of Messiah, not Passover. He died on Passover, thus finishing the Spring feasts from the very beginning.

One more date is given in that chapter (12)
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. 19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.​

Passover memorial and then unleavened bread.
Yeshua the Passover, once he died sin was taken from the world (unleavened bread).

Now while in Egypt they were not given the feast of the new moon, so that wasn't fulfilled in Egypt nor a memorial to it. However it is the very first Holy Day of the year.

It is the new moon,

New Moon
Beginning of the month
Beginning of the year

Now to cement this further. (and yes I've believed in the Tabernacles theory as the time too, but this seems to fit much better and in order and our G-d is a God of order.)

Yes, John 1 says this:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John seems to be making it difficult to not acknowledge the beginning. Now he is harking back to Genesis 1 but where else to start with the nation of Israel?

Now the part that is the keystone to the Tabernacles theory:

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us​

However you can choose to change that word 'dwelt' to 'tabernacled' but you can also take it to mean that he 'lived among us'. They are not the same thing.

So are there other places in the bible we can find anything that relates the 1st of Nissan to the Mishkan, the Tabernacle in the wilderness? Because the 'booths' are what is referred to in the feast of tabernacles, referring to Israel living in tents. But at the center was the 'Tent of meeting (G-d)' and this 'tent' was called the Mishkan. This was separate from all the thousands of other tents and it was HOLY.

Cont in next post
 
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Lulav

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Let's see...

Ex 40:
1 Then the L-RD said to Moses,
2 “On the first day of the first month you are to set up the tabernacle,
the Tent of Meeting."

As I said in the OP, the Tabernacle took 9 months to construct, just as it takes nine months to 'construct' a baby in the womb. The date the L-RD chose to have it set up was very specific (which in today's building business would have seemed a miracle if it was done at the projected time), but in the wilderness, no less, they did it.

Is there any other mention of the first day of the first month in relation to the Tabernacle or the Temple?

From 2 Chron 29 I found something interesting

17 Now they began on the first day of the first month to sanctify, and on the eighth day of the month came they to the porch of the LORD: so they sanctified the house of the L-RD in eight days;​

This section is speaking of when King Hezekiah began to reign. In his first year (he was 25) he gathered the Levites and priests and ordered them to sanctify themselves and to clean and sanctify the Temple.
I found it interesting too since one of the factors for determining when Yeshua was born is taken from Luke where the story of John the Immerser is told.

Remember that John's father Zachariah, was a priest, a Cohanim, and he served in the course in the temple of Abijah. His mother, Elizabeth is also the daughter of a Priest as is mentioned in Luke when many women's genealogy are not mentioned.

So reading in 2 Chron 29 we find that Hezekiah's mothers name was Abijah. :) And she was the daughter of a man named Zechariah.
Coincidence?
No, I think it's a clue, a pointer.

1 Hezekiah began to reign when he was five and twenty years old, and he reigned nine and twenty years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Abijah, the daughter of Zechariah. 2And he did that which was right in the sight of the L-RD, according to all that David his father had done.



Genesis 8:13 after the cleansing of the earth we read:

And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.



 
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Heber Book List

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Why wait until Passover? Wait from when?

The time to start Israels calendar ( given to them in Egypt was before the plagues were completed) was the Spring.

Yes the first thing they did was to secure a lamb on the tenth day and four days later came the last plague and the Passover.
However the first of that month, nothing was done in Egypt.

Many believe Yeshua fulfilled the Spring feasts but they only mention:
  1. Passover
  2. Feast of unleavened bread
  3. First fruits
Some will add in Shavuot, which is actually in Summer, and then say that there are 3 left to fulfill of the Seven feasts of the L-RD.

However when we read this in Exodus it looks like there is one not mentioned.

1 And the L-RD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house.........
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.​

So from that we learn that the month they were in (which we know as Nissan but which was also known as 'Aviv'), was to be the beginning of all the months of the year to them.
And that on the 10th day they were to do something as well as the 14th day.

Revelation tells us:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

The Beginning would be Nissan 1 New moon
The Ending would be the Feasts of Tabernacles and the eighth day

The Beginning of the year, the very first day is Nissan 1. The OP is about showing that is the birth day of Messiah, not Passover. He died on Passover, thus finishing the Spring feasts from the very beginning.

One more date is given in that chapter (12)
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. 19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.​

Passover memorial and then unleavened bread.
Yeshua the Passover, once he died sin was taken from the world (unleavened bread).

Now while in Egypt they were not given the feast of the new moon, so that wasn't fulfilled in Egypt nor a memorial to it. However it is the very first Holy Day of the year.

It is the new moon,

New Moon
Beginning of the month
Beginning of the year

Now to cement this further. (and yes I've believed in the Tabernacles theory as the time too, but this seems to fit much better and in order and out G-d is a God of order.)

Yes, John 1 says this:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John seems to be making it difficult to not acknowledge the beginning. Now he is harking back to Genesis 1 but where else to start with the nation of Israel?

Now the part that is the keystone to the Tabernacles theory:

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us​

However you can choose to change that word 'dwelt' to 'tabernacled' but you can also take it to me that he 'lived among us'. They are not the same thing.

So are there other places in the bible we can find anything that relates the 1st of Nissan to the Mishkan, the Tabernacle in the wilderness? Because the 'booths' are what is referred to in the feast of tabernacles, referring to Israel living in tents. But at the center was the 'Tent of meeting (G-d)' and this 'tent' was called the Mishkan. This was separate from all the thousands of other tents and it was HOLY.

Cont in next post

I was using Passover as a generalisation. To be particular, I should have said 1st of the 1st month. Oh, and what John says about tabernacles is immaterial in my belief - the word doesn't appear in my bibles.
 
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Let's see...

Ex 40:
1 Then the L-RD said to Moses,
2 “On the first day of the first month you are to set up the tabernacle,
the Tent of Meeting."

As I said in the OP, the Tabernacle took 9 months to construct, just as it takes nine months to 'construct' a baby in the womb. The date the L-RD chose to have it set up was very specific (which in today's building business would have seemed a miracle if it was done at the projected time), but in the wilderness, no less, they did it.

Is there any other mention of the first day of the first month in relation to the Tabernacle or the Temple?

From 2 Chron 29 I found something interesting

17 Now they began on the first day of the first month to sanctify, and on the eighth day of the month came they to the porch of the LORD: so they sanctified the house of the L-RD in eight days;​

This section is speaking of when King Hezekiah began to reign. In his first year (he was 25) he gathered the Levites and priests and ordered them to sanctify themselves and to clean and sanctify the Temple.
I found it interesting too since one of the factors for determining when Yeshua was born is taken from Luke where the story of John the Immerser is told.

Remember that John's father Zachariah, was a priest, a Cohanim, and he served in the course in the temple of Abijah. His mother, Elizabeth is also the daughter of a Priest as is mentioned in Luke when many women's genealogy are not mentioned.

So reading in 2 Chron 29 we find that Hezekiah's mothers name was Abijah. :) And she was the daughter of a man named Zechariah.
Coincidence?
No, I think it's a clue, a pointer.

1 Hezekiah began to reign when he was five and twenty years old, and he reigned nine and twenty years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Abijah, the daughter of Zechariah. 2And he did that which was right in the sight of the L-RD, according to all that David his father had done.



Genesis 8:13 after the cleansing of the earth we read:

And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
They would of course fit in like glove, if you are picking your texts to suit your argument. I can do the same and prove that Yeshus is not the Messiah! :)

No one knows for sure when he was born - some, including me, believe it makes sense that he was born at the time of the Feast of Tabernacles, probably on Simchat Torah. Others believe he was born at other times, but what is clear, is that none of us believe Christmas was his birthday!
 
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