I Love Jesus, but Hate His Church.

[Tree of Life]

People say that generally speaking because there are so many hypocritical Christians out there. It's a pretty common complaint, especially among people who don't want to embrace Christianity *because* of the people.

Are there more hypocritical people in the church than in society at large?

If people reject Christianity because they feel morally superior to the people they see in the church, isn't this just a sign of self-righteous arrogance and self-delusion?

 

[waawaashkeshi]

I grew up in a church community where church was at school and home and not just the weekend. So when i found myself forced to live far away because my wife divorced me I went church hopping for the first time and never found anything like it.
The people I meet are nothing like the people I was forced to leave. They say awful things behind peoples backs and cause relationship breakups for personal amusement for example.
In one church a woman divorced her husband for another man in the same church and the rest of the congregation just expect him to accept it and the fact his kids will now be raised by this man.
Curtailing bad behavior like this was day one from where i come from and in today's age God has changed from a being of destiny, purpose, justice and battling evil to a being that just makes you feel good on Sunday.
Pastors now days try to bring people in with feel good messages and stay away from battling evil.
Because of this yes I can understand why at least some people get sick of the church.
I still go to church but i do not feel like it's anything genuine anymore. There is no alter here just an espresso machine. Only reason I go to this one is because I have more in common with these old timers then people my own age.

 

[mcarmichael]

Exactly.

It better be. I got it from Wikipedia.

 

[bekkilyn]

Are there more hypocritical people in the church than in society at large?

If people reject Christianity because they feel morally superior to the people they see in the church, isn't this just a sign of self-righteous arrogance and self-delusion?

It's a sign that the church is failing in its message and mission.

 

[Dave G.]

I grew up in a church community where church was at school and home and not just the weekend. So when i found myself forced to live far away because my wife divorced me I went church hopping for the first time and never found anything like it.
The people I meet are nothing like the people I was forced to leave. They say awful things behind peoples backs and cause relationship breakups for personal amusement for example.
In one church a woman divorced her husband for another man in the same church and the rest of the congregation just expect him to accept it and the fact his kids will now be raised by this man.
Curtailing bad behavior like this was day one from where i come from and in today's age God has changed from a being of destiny, purpose, justice and battling evil to a being that just makes you feel good on Sunday.
Pastors now days try to bring people in with feel good messages and stay away from battling evil.
Because of this yes I can understand why at least some people get sick of the church.
I still go to church but i do not feel like it's anything genuine anymore. There is no alter here just an espresso machine. Only reason I go to this one is because I have more in common with these old timers then people my own age.

Old time preaching is getting hard to find these days. I see nothing wrong with mixing a little hell fire at least now and then but you go near that and many people today can't handle it. So hell gets reduced to separation from God, which isn't untrue but it also doesn't have much impact to the ungodly. Pastors have to dance a line between truth and feel good. Why ? To pay the bills. And all we have to do is look at TV, they fill foot ball stadium sized churches with make yourself a better person messages. Why ? Because we live in an I- My- Me world where selfie photos pasted on facebook are more important than reality.

I saw a poster once, it showed probably Osteens church filled to capacity and it said in the caption, "what happens when you preach what they want to hear". Below it was a picture of a dozen people or so in what looked about classroom size, a chalk board and pastor with a makeshift pulpit and the caption said "what happens when you preach the truth". That smacked me right between the eyes. I thought how true is that !

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I've seen or heard statements like that for the past decade. As the years go by I hear it more frequently.

Although Ive heard this from all types of people, the common thread is that these people, a) think that statement is logically sound, and b) they think that they stand on some moral higher ground.

What say you? Is the title of this thread contradictory to what scripture teaches?

The Church is not yet perfected and every church has its complement of goats and wolves in sheep's clothing mixed in with the sheep. It is also true that the Church is for sinners, not for the perfect. So the churches will have their problems. But if we accept this reality and also the truth that "where two or three (or more) are gathered in my Name, there I will be", then it is far better to be in a faith community than out on your own. Just don't expect perfection. Be a part of improving the churches, not one who is only a critic from the outside. You too are not yet perfected.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

This world has seven billion people in it, and that gives about seven billion different primary reasons why they don't like Christians, and, as you can see from the posts here, even the Christians have things that they don't like about Christians in general. You'll notice we get criticized when we do not live up to the righteousness of Christ. That is, we get slammed by unbelievers for living like they do. I am of the opinion that no man should condemn me for stooping to his level, but that's not the whole story. When we do not live down to the world's standards, when we do succeed in living righteously, they call us "self-righteous," and they criticize us for being too religious. You see where this is going?

The world can always say that they like Christ. Everyone who doesn't know Christ has their own ideas about him. People are in love with their own blasted imaginations. Put a real human Christian in front of them, and it's another matter. If you think that living up to the ideals of Christ is hard, try living down to the ideals of an atheist. It's a moving target.

Criticize me for not being what you think a Christian should be. I dare you. Now go and show me how to be a good Christian. The heathen can say whatever he wants about my failure as a believer, but he, admittedly as an unbeliever, hasn't even begun to try. Those who give it their best ought not to take criticism from those who don't even try.

The unbeliever has a litany of things we do wrong, and I refuse to listen. Why? The answer is simple: he's not on our side. He doesn't even want us to succeed.

God has told us what we need to do and whom we need to be. Why do you even care what the enemy of God says about you, when you have the word of God before you to guide you? Stop looking to the unbeliever and focus on God. The unbeliever is going to Hell. I don't take driving instructions from a man who drives off of a cliff. I don't take fire safety lessons from a man who continuously burns down his own home. I don't heed the spiritual advice of a man who willfully walks into the pit of Hell.

 

[bekkilyn]

God has told us what we need to do and whom we need to be. Why do you even care what the enemy of God says about you, when you have the word of God before you to guide you? Stop looking to the unbeliever and focus on God. The unbeliever is going to Hell. I don't take driving instructions from a man who drives off of a cliff. I don't take fire safety lessons from a man who continuously burns down his own home. I don't heed the spiritual advice of a man who willfully walks into the pit of Hell.

I care because these people are part of God's creation and in need of his salvation.

10 “Take care that you do not despise one of these little ones; for, I tell you, in heaven their angels continually see the face of my Father in heaven. 12 What do you think? If a shepherd has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father in heaven that one of these little ones should be lost. - Matthew 18:10-14​

 

[LPetal]

PottersHands, Thursday - thank you both for your comments.

Sam91, thanks for your endorsement.

I appreciate genuine prayer and hope my post will have been insightful for someone.

Good wishes,

 

[writewords]

I've seen or heard statements like that for the past decade. As the years go by I hear it more frequently.

Although Ive heard this from all types of people, the common thread is that these people, a) think that statement is logically sound, and b) they think that they stand on some moral higher ground.

What say you? Is the title of this thread

Contradictory and illogical. Jesus tells us that the world will hate us because they gates Him first. Seems like if they hate the church that they don't love Jesus.

 

[michael10sley]

I've seen or heard statements like that for the past decade. As the years go by I hear it more frequently.

Although Ive heard this from all types of people, the common thread is that these people, a) think that statement is logically sound, and b) they think that they stand on some moral higher ground.

What say you? Is the title of this thread contradictory to what scripture teaches?

If you're talking about Christ's Church (body of saints alive and already with Him) then you are being blasphemous in saying you hate His Church. If you are talking about the way too many doctrinal churches
and how their rules and traditions change the nature of Christianity, I understand how you feel. Along with all the charlatans on television who take your money by saying things you want to hear who claim this or that special anointing then you are right once again.

Jesus said this in Mark 9:35, "Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.” I haven't read anything in Scripture that changes or disputes that. A big part of being in that position before God is intercessory prayer, putting other's welfare and well-being above your own. Our ultimate Intercessor is Jesus, Romans 8:34, and He sits now at God's right hand representing us as we pray.

The church(es) I believe you're referring to is/are those who don't operate in a fashion which puts others, the sick, the poor, and those in need first, but 'preach' as if they do.

Humans can screw up anything they get involved with including (and worst of all) salvation by grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8-9 taking verse 10, "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.", and turning God's plan into something nearly unrecognizable through greed and pride instead of doing what God intended.

Humility and love for each other takes a backseat when church leadership forgets how they began, sharing His Gospel of Good News and become either prideful of their position(s) or greed driven, or both.

Try to find a fellowship which is humble, loving, prayerful and Christ first and you won't have to think about the 'church' that isn't a church at all.

In Christ Jesus,
Michael

 

[dhh712]

I've seen or heard statements like that for the past decade. As the years go by I hear it more frequently.

Although Ive heard this from all types of people, the common thread is that these people, a) think that statement is logically sound, and b) they think that they stand on some moral higher ground.

What say you? Is the title of this thread contradictory to what scripture teaches?

Definitely contradictory. When Jesus stopped Paul on the road to Damascus, he didn't say, "Saul why are you persecuting the Church?" He said, "Saul, why are you persecuting me?" Jesus is the head of his Church. We are one body united to Christ.

I understand that people can be disenchanted with the hypocritical actions of people in the visible church (which consists of tares as well as wheat). All us Christians are hypocrites at times when we disobey the commandments of Christ. However, if you believe Jesus is your Saviour, he looked with kindness and love on something way, way more disenchanting in comparison with His glory than whatever disgust you can get if you compare yourself with a hypocritical Christian.

If you love Jesus but hate the Church, your hatred comes of the devil and is not right before God. Jesus loved his church and died for her. His adopted children should love with true compassion all the brethren despite the remaining sin.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

If people reject Christianity because they feel morally superior to the people they see in the church, isn't this just a sign of self-righteous arrogance and self-delusion?

It is. In which case they haven't the slightest clue what Christianity is, nor the holiness of God or sinfulness of man.

What's also interesting is that when non-Christians can see and condemn the hypocrisy within the Church, that clearly indicates they understand that there is some objective moral standard that all should live by. In other words, they condemn themselves.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Are there more hypocritical people in the church than in society at large?

If people reject Christianity because they feel morally superior to the people they see in the church, isn't this just a sign of self-righteous arrogance and self-delusion?

I never thought of it that way. But yeah it probably is true.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There is no alter here just an espresso machine.

That says it all.

 

[FireDragon76]

The world can always say that they like Christ. Everyone who doesn't know Christ has their own ideas about him. People are in love with their own blasted imaginations.

I think this is true of many Christians as well. I call it "Sock-Puppet Jesus". Christians often just shroud Jesus in gilded piety and churchianity, without thinking critically about the Bible. That kind of "Jesus" becomes a sock-puppet for your particular ethno-religious tribe.

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Such comments could be based on a couple things:

1) these people misunderstand who Yahshua is because all they've heard from the modern church is that He loves you and He forgives all sins. Some people want to use this as an excuse to do whatever they want...the classic grace as a license to sin scenario. Then when they see the modern church saying they need to change their lifestyle, the hate the church.



nm

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

mn

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

never mind

my opinions are stupid

 

[kepha31]