1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

I have my own theory about the "end times"

Discussion in 'Bridge Builders - Moderate Christians' started by BlackSabb, May 20, 2009.

  1. BlackSabb

    BlackSabb Senior Member

    +137
    Christian
    Married
    Hi everyone. I have been thinking about this subject for many years now and have formulated my own theory about all this speculation of end times events, as interpreted from the book of Revelation.

    I warn you however, it's very different. I doubt you've ever heard a theory like mine before. And some of you may be offended. But let me explain myself first.

    For literally thousands of years, people have been predicting the "end of the world" and the second coming. Complete with specific dates and times. And of course they have been all wrong.

    I have been noticing that even the popular media is very familiar with popular Christian end times speculations. For eg, there is a Simpsons episode where they take off Tim LeHaye's 'Left Behind' with their own:

    "Left below".

    It features the righteous going to heaven by way of the rapture and all the people on earth "left below" to suffer through the tribulation. All non Christians know at least a little of popular Christian end times theology. Whether Christian or non Christian, everyone has heard of the AntiChrist, one world government, 666 the number of the beast (eg, the Iron Maiden album), the mark of the beast etc. All these things are popular features of cartoons, movies, documentaries, sitcoms, youtube, rock bands.

    I have no doubt that all these popular Christian speculations about the end of the world are all false. Particularly as there are so many interpretations of it. However, I have come to the conclusion that this continual barrage of all these end times speculations is causing people to become over familiar with all these themes.

    And what will be the outcome of all this? Simply this. As the entire world continues to hear about the end of the world, the antiChrist, 666, the mark of the beast etc and as all these things DON'T come to pass, the world will be turned off Christianity. Because the world will see that these things are not happening. Like I said before, when you see Tim LeHaye parodied in The Simpsons, you know the message has become saturated.

    I firmly believe that all these end times speculations are being used by the enemy to turn the world cold to the gospel. That there will be a massive falling away and all this massive barrage of Christian end times speculation is one of the ways that it will happen.

    Like I said, it's unconventional but I firmly believe that. Make of it (and me) as you will.
     
  2. Qyöt27

    Qyöt27 AMV Editor At Large

    +528
    Methodist
    Single
    US-Others
    I might as well be overly blunt about this and say that people realizing that all that dispensationalist trash is false is for the better - there's a long history of people having 'wrong' beliefs about various religions (Christianity only being one that it's happened to), and when they see that most of the rest of the religion never followed those crackpot ideas they move on and the actual membership is unfazed, nor do I think those that weren't already dead-set against whatever religion it is will avoid it either. Those unable to cope with the fact their beliefs were misguided get caught in the crossfire, yes, but even a large number of them continue adhering to the religion they always followed, and just readjust their beliefs in light of what's happened.

    That kind of end times belief is most visible in the United States, some of the aspects of it are almost totally exclusive to the US evangelical/fundamentalist camp (particularly the pieces about one world government conspiracies and the anti-European sentiments that usually accompany them). Moreover, even in the US, it's still a mixed bag because not all churches here fall into that demographic or have anything to do with that theological framework. Not to mention that the state of the US' pop-culture churches doesn't equal the state of Christianity itself. Maybe it represents the hollow, consumeristic, feel-good, milk-fed Modern Church, but that's not representative of Christianity either.

    About using those differences to drive us apart, when hasn't that been the case? You only need to look at numerous other contentious theologies and groups that make rifts between believers or make believers look like they need to be locked up in the loony bin. But I still trust that the vast majority out there are able to understand that a particularly vocal minority isn't representative of all believers.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  3. BlackSabb

    BlackSabb Senior Member

    +137
    Christian
    Married

    Hey thanks for that. I sometimes have felt that I was the only one to feel this way. I honestly feel that in decades to come, the entire world is going to grow cynical towards Christianity constantly speculating about the one world government, the rapture, the antiChrist etc. And when the rest of the world sees that the end is not coming, I feel that many will have turned away.
     
  4. buzzini

    buzzini Newbie

    88
    +6
    Non-Denom
    hey, here's another support here. I agree with you. But I dont' believe in end time anymore. I believe there's deeper meaning that most do not understand but just reading the surface. and that there is no end, the world will continue forever. for there is not measure and match for God that heaven will take eternity to fill.
     
  5. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

    +1,568
    United States
    Pagan
    Married
    Best post ever :thumbsup: especially the bold line :p

    I have to say I support the OP's position, although I have yet to develop a rigid idea of eschatology.
     
  6. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily O Come and Adore Him

    +235
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Republican
    The Orthodox Church believes that "the beast" and the "666" number of his name is speaking about the Emperor Domitian, and the persecution of the Christian faith. In other words, a lot of the book of Revelation has already happened.

    I agree with what you said that these "end times" teachings are turning people away from Christianity because this message is oversaturated, and not coming to pass.

    Check out what the Orthodox believe about Revelation here:

    OCA - Q & A - Book of Revelation
     
  7. Cura Animarum

    Cura Animarum Newbie

    18
    +4
    Catholic
    Married
    There really is a lot of unnecessary fear and anxiety surrounding the whole 'end-times' theme. I suppose for good reason in that, as the OP and several others have pointed out, the mainstream has for the most part, completely missed the whole point of the Book of Revelation. A simple, balanced introduction to how to read and understand scripture is all that would be require for most people to 'get it' a whole lot better than they do now and this goes for mainstream media, pop culture, biblical fundamentalists and Christians of all flavors.

    I spend much of my time teaching this stuff to adults coming into the faith. When speaking of the Bible and Salvation History I start from the standpoint of the scripture's two 'bookends' - Genesis and Revelation. The first two chapters of Genesis tell us what God's desire for creation and humanity was "in the beginning", we're painted a picture of the Heavenly Kingdom, of eternal life in perfect relationship with God and each-other. Whenever anyone asks me "what does God want?" I always point them in some form to this idea...to live in right relationship with us always. Revelation's message is even simpler (though hidden deeply in frightening imagery that was used for very good reason given the cultural circumstances of the time)...at the end of it all; God gets what God wants.

    Far from being a message of doom and gloom, the intent of Revelation was and is to speak to a people who feel trapped in a hopeless time, who feel that their every action, every thought, is bringing them closer and closer to death; a people for whom (under Diocletian and the insane persecutions of the Roman Empire) the world seemed to be coming to an end. Revelation speaks to every man woman and child who finds themselves in a world without hope and says; "Do not be afraid. Do not ever forget. Sin and death do not have the final word in this story, I am the author, I am the Word, I am the lamb...When all has seemed to pass away...I am."

    God wins.

    Alleluiah!

    Two of my Favorite Revelation Quick facts;

    1) Original Greek Title: Apokálypsis Two words - Apo='to remove' kalypsis='the veil'...specifically the placental veil or caul covering the face of some newborns - a veil that must be removed for the child to live.

    I LOVE the imagery and am saddened that it has been lost. Perhaps if we had preserved this idea as being at the heart of the book, two thousand years of misunderstanding and fear mongering may have been avoided.

    2) As mentioned by at least one other here, it written during the time of Diocletian's reign of terror. Everyone has heard of crazies like Nero and Caligula? Put Diocletian up there with them. In fact the number 666 is used as a reference to Nero as the penultimately imperfect human..directly opposed to God. People (Christians, Jews, and even the Romans themselves) were so fearful of this man that rumors and legend abounded surrounding his return from the dead. Under Diocletian's reign of terror (having Christian skewerd alive on poles, diped in pitch and lit aflame to light up the highway to Rome for example) the people feared the legends true...that Nero had returned from the dead! AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    LOVE LOVE LOVE the Book of Revelation. :D

    PS: I did have wiki links to pages on Diocletian and the placental caul but it says I can't post them until I have 50 (50!? Really!?) posts. A quick wiki or google search will bring them up though.;)
     
  8. AzA

    AzA NF | NT

    +95
    Christian
    Private
    Cura, this was a fantastic post. Thank you very much -- and please talk to as many people as you can. You have something to say.

    Bless you,
    AzA
     
  9. Cura Animarum

    Cura Animarum Newbie

    18
    +4
    Catholic
    Married
    I'm really glad you liked it. I feel very strongly about taking the time to read, understand, and teach the scriptures well. So much of our fear and misunderstanding as Christians revolves around often ridiculous assumptions about what the Bible really says.

    And if you can't tell...The Apocalypse is one of my favorite books!
     
  10. aparche

    aparche Guest

    +0
    As knowledge increases, more is made manifest of scripture to those who are wise. Revelation 13:18 states that "Here is wisdom, Let him that hath understanding count the number...."

    It doesn't say here is fear, here in doubt, here is confusion. It's states that them with understanding will attain to wisdom.

    I believe the number 666 references to our Adam nature connection to the entire earthen system. The number of the speed of the evolution of the earth is 66,600 mi. pr. hour. So as one man lowered entire earth into sin, Another man by his obedience, sinless nature, spilling of his blood, death burial and resurrection paid for and redeemed the entire creation.

    Also, the atomic weight number of the feet of the beast in king Nebuchadnezzar's dream which were made of iron and clay equals 333 x 2(feet) = 666. Iron oxide 74.85, clay 258.16. Daniel 2 states, that the feet are referred to have toes part iron and part clay. Partly strong partly broken. It's the intergration of the final world system into the flesh of mankind. Scientist are already talking about implants that interface with neuralogical functions. Revelation 13:4 says, "who can make war with the beast."

    Earthen man is mainly carbon based 6 electrons orbit 6 neutrons linked to 6 protons. For that matter most lifeforms in this realm is carbon based. Man that came from the dirt is destined to be purified by fire. Only them that worship is Spirit and Truth shall abide at his coming.

    Our God is a consuming fire. Hebrew 12:29 Peter says that all the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2009
  11. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran Supporter

    +891
    Christian
    Widowed
    Revelation was a letter to a church. People don't write letters that is obscure and meaningless to its recipients. It is not a book that is a mystery until te very end when only those will understand it, except that chapters 21& 22 tell of a new story which is yet to happen.

    John
    NZ
     
  12. BlackSabb

    BlackSabb Senior Member

    +137
    Christian
    Married

    Dude, that was truly bizarre. In fact, that is just the type of weird Revelation stuff that I'm ranting against in my OP!!!!
     
  13. Qyöt27

    Qyöt27 AMV Editor At Large

    +528
    Methodist
    Single
    US-Others
    It's also dangerously Gnostic in tone.
     
  14. spinningtutu

    spinningtutu Well-Known Member

    +161
    Unitarian
    Married
    I feel as though it can be a real big distraction to get tied down on details, predictions, etc. I think it is acceptable for me to admit that I really do hate the way in which "eschatology" has been commercialized - especially in the US... No one knows the day or the hour, and we should take this to heart.

    That being said-
    I am also not going to be bullied into saying that I don't believe what the Bible teaches. I know a lot of passages have meaning relevant to the past and to Church history (etc) but they continue to be relevant and have meaning for the future as well. I affirm the truth of the Rapture, the Tribulation, the visible and personal return of Jesus Christ, the Millennium and the final destruction of Satan and all evil. I don't know that we are living in the "End Times" but then again - I also don't know that we aren't... Only God knows and God has revealed what He has revealed to give us assurance that He will kick Satan's butt when all is said and done. This gets us through the all tribulation, including 'The Tribulation'. That is all I know - and all I need to know.
     
  15. lismore

    lismore Maranatha

    +3,406
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Single
    Hello:wave:

    Its not that unconventional. I agree to a large extent. People have been turning off Christianity for years. If you look at the figures, more people worship weekly in mosques than in churches in London.

    We need to give people a message that is relevant and real, something they can live and see others living too!

    I was in a pentecostal/ WOF church for years, I was desparing at ever living up to the 'pie in the sky' that was preached there!

    God Bless You

    :)
     
  16. Jesusmyfriend

    Jesusmyfriend Member

    408
    +10
    Non-Denom
  17. Madcap Mo

    Madcap Mo Sinner

    39
    +1
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Nice one Cura! Basically the end of days is actually the creation of a new one, well not sure if those are the right words but you catch my drift right?
     
  18. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

    +1,568
    United States
    Pagan
    Married
    The problem with Eschatology is as Paxi said and I have to agree at least in America, it is a commercial issue. I mean, I give Eschatology about as much weight as I do any other theological subject but I don't like to discuss it purely because everyone gets too defensive and emotional, plus I am a partial preterist so my understanding of the end is not nearly as interesting as some. :p
     
  19. chrisnu

    chrisnu Just trying to figure things out...

    503
    +22
    Agnostic
    Single
    US-Others
    :clap: Thank you! My current church is so bad about this, tying to shoehorn current political events into dispensational eschatology. To that, I reply with the following Scripture:

    "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." Matthew 24:6

    In my opinion,

    1) It is fear-mongering,
    2) It encourages an unhealthy focus on the current nation of Israel,
    3) It encourages people to pray for the wrong things - praying to get zapped out of here, rather than praying for the strength to endure whatever comes.

    A distaste for this has been growing in me for some time, but I'm just now beginning to look at other opinions on this that, frankly, aren't so frightening!

    Zoness, at this point I would consider myself a partial preterist also. Right on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  20. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

    +1,568
    United States
    Pagan
    Married
    :thumbsup:
     
Loading...