I have awful doubts and a scare to read the bible

Greg J.

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I am not a moderator, but I can point out that debate is not permitted in this forum—nor is too much theological examination. There are other forums for both. If the original poster wants to continue debate or what God is like on a topic, he can post in a forum that encourages such.

@lutherangerman, this post is oriented toward explaining why reading the Bible, seeking more of God in your life, and being obedient to him is enormously beneficial to any of us.

A part of God's love for us is that he gives us the freedom to choose to accept him or reject him. One thing we learn from the Bible is the long-term consequences of our choices—for all kinds of things (not just our eternal destination). One of the reasons to read the Bible is to learn what is happening to us. Everything that happens to us is the result of human choices (most of them by our ancestors), not God's choices. What God wants is to save us from the just consequences of our sinful actions. Jesus died so that God could offer to save us. It is very much God's desire to save everyone, but he is not going to force anyone. You cannot choose for anyone else. You must make your own decision.

Another very important reason to study the Bible is so we can draw upon God's love and power to resist Satan. While God is always partially protecting us from Satan, he is not going to force us to reject Satan. That is part of the freedom to choose that God created us with. The reason we have illnesses, suffering, death, and wars all over the world like we do is because almost everyone is doing the kinds of things that push God farther and farther away, and in fact are doing the kinds of things that Satan does (which is always some form of rejecting God).

Psychoses and all illnesses are a result of so many people pushing God away for thousands of years. If you want to get rid of the darkness in your life, you will need the light to do so. God has given us medication and other people to help us, but God himself will also help us. Drawing close to God causes him to draw closer to you. I have had similar fights to what you describe (I have depression and bipolar disorder II), and the way I have fought them is by knowing the truth that God has shown me, trusting in him, and asking him for help. He loves us all very much. But how can I justify expecting him to answer my requests if I am rejecting the help he has already given me in the Bible. I have recited truth from the Bible many times out loud and had it drive away Satan, but he will not go completely away while we are still in the world where he is. But any degree of relief is very welcome indeed, and it is available from God.

Much of the Bible is scary because it was written about people who were rejecting God. These are the people that need God's help the most, and that is why the Bible is fully of scary things. But there is nothing in all creation to be afraid of for the person who is doing what God said, since when we are doing all he said to do in the Bible, he will intervene for the situations we are in that are not in the Bible. For such people he promises to pour out more blessing than we can handle. We will be overflowing with the goodness of God. I experience this every now and then (but I am still stuck on the fallen earth for a time yet).

Does God punish the people who sin or do the natural consequences of sin come upon them? In fact it is both. However, it is very enlightening to recognize that even when God is not passing judgment and punishing people, the consequences of sin still come upon us (Romans 5:13-14). That is how our universe works, and we only know how it works because of truths God has given to us, because he wants to save and help us. It is we who do not want him to save and help us in the ways he said were available. Jesus said,

“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. (John 12:47, 1984 NIV)
 
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lutherangerman

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Hi Greg,

in many things you are right but there are things you have not thought about all too much. For example, the bible is clear in the New Testament that we should not go back to the Law of Moses nor draw too much inspiration from it. The Law has been done away with, that is a principle that must stand so we can find the fullness of Christ who told us to obey the law of freedom in the Epistle of James. This law of freedom has been known in theology as the Law of Nature, and it is this Law that is written on our hearts, not the Law of Sin and Death as it can be found in Moses. This Law of Sin and Death only brings sin to live as Paul says. Furthermore, this bad law is often found in the biblical writings and must in these cases too be revealed as being below Christ. That we can have full grace and forgiveness in Jesus is not a detail of the Law but a new and fresh perspective as we need it. Legalism is deadly and christianity in the last years has avoided this trap and wanted to make grace into a new law. But grace is grace. It is not okay to make grace a small detail of the law while it is a whole life and lifestyle.

A big part of my new vigor in God rests on the commandment to love people like myself like I always do now in my group home. The bible is scary when it preaches the Law of Sin and Death, and that is why we should not say we want the whole bible to be followed. That becomes too israelitic and produces anger and confusion. That is not anti-biblical and not anti-christian, Christ himself wanted reform, a reform in looking at scripture too.

That is my perspective and it's not against Christ, I am very sure of that. And there were very many saints and believers in the history of christianity who thought likewise. And it's not ok to rule us out, we are your brothers and sisters as well and youre not our lord. Please consider that.

Thanks and God bless you!
 
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Greg J.

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I pointed out that the consequences of good and/or sinful actions will still come upon those not under Law (followers of Jesus) as well as whoever is under the Law. One of the big reasons to know the Law is to know what is sinful and what is not, because committing sins still results in our death and pushes God away more (and we suffer the awful consequences of that).

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8, 1984 NIV)​

Deuteronomy 28 paints a picture of the consequences of our actions that holds true even for those not under Law. That is the way the universe is wired (Romans 5:13-14).

Another big reason to read the Bible (and know the Law) is that it is a reflection of God's core nature. It is very important to those that want to know God (and what pleases and displeases him). Knowing God better by faith in him is the most important thing in every person's life. Everything else in our present and future flows from that.

Not being under Law has nothing to do with whether we are commanded to be obedient to God or not. Jesus died so we could have the choice of doing what pleases him or displeases him, however it was not so we could choose to displease him.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! (Romans 6:15, 1984 NIV)​

If a person believes he or she is saved, but has not yielded to his Lordship (e.g., feels like they don't need to be obedient to God), then they have chosen to fall into the same category as demons.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. (James 2:19, 1984 NIV)​
 
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ubicaritas

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I'm not sure you are correct, Aiki.

When Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross, he said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing". This is for everyone, including Jesus' killers. When God could forgive them, he can forgive my dad his unbelief. We all go to God's judgment after death anyway, and Jesus sits there and he is the same yesterday, today and forever. Also, God is love and mercy triumphs over judgment, so if God wanted to triumph then he would be merciful to my dad.

I can't think differently anyway, dad's a loved one and my family is also not believing in God. I would be in tears all day in Heaven if they would have to suffer forever. So this can't be it.

You can have hope because God is merciful but our religion does't deliver certainties on this question because the Bible doesn't give those kinds of answers.

It is something that as a Lutheran you are free to pray about. We do not have a prohibition for praying for the dead, even if we do not have Roman Catholic type ideas about what that means. If things bother you, you are always free to pray about them and share your anxieties with God.
 
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lutherangerman

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@GREG, I am not sure why you would say that yielding to the Law is the same as yielding to God. Jesus himself said, and Paul confirms it, that the Law was from Moses and from the Jews, and does not fully originate with God. I believe Jesus followed a higher law, the law of love and freedom. If you read through the Law, it does not show me that God is love. But Christ always shows me that God is love. We must be brave enough not to choose the Law and choose the Gospel instead. The Law only brings sin to live that otherwise would be dead and disarmed.

If we are speaking about the 10 commandments, that is relatively easy to keep. But once all the threats come in and the damnation and "it is an abomination", etc, then I know I am not with God in this stuff, because Jesus and His Cross speak an entirely different language. We're not muslims for whom the Law is the end, we're christians for whom, like Paul says, Jesus is the end of the Law.

God is love and goodness, and those who say thats too sweet and too simple and too polite, do not understand the sufferings of life or must have had it very simple and easy. I do not read the bible like a thriller, it's a compendium for me and a very unique book. However it's also full of theological opinions that are not really all so true.
 
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LME

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Hello,

for some years now I am doing very bad. I have lot's of doubts about God being there and I am sick with psychosis and often have days when I feel like everything becomes hell and that we are doomed to die and disappear from life. I used to be a normal christian and went to church and such, but this is hard now because I live in a group home a distance away from church and do not have a car. I also have problems being around people, feeling shy and insecure when I am.

I tried to read the bible but much of the book makes me very afraid. I had a good and kind dad who was an atheist until he died and I feel like I can't accept orthodoxy when it says atheists would go to hell. I hope there is an alternative because not everyone can so easily believe in God and I have had awful doubts too and sometimes still have.

If you could pray for me I would be very grateful. I have obsessive thoughts about satan every day and either feel bad scare or get tempting thoughts about giving in. I normally do not allow that myself but sometimes stuff slipped through. I am tired from fighting and from the fear. I wish I could find a nice christian person to really see through me and deliver me. Thank you and God bless you!
God is in your head and in your thinking. It is well with your soul in Jesus Name
 
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lutherangerman

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@GREG, you may not have said it, but it's what transpires from your words.

Just think about it. For example, the virtue of being a sharing person isn't formulated in the Law. You do not have to be nice. You can swear and blaspheme. Rape is not forbidden, in marriages anyway. Not even pedophily is forbidden in the Law. And you think it's God's standard?

And even if it were, you can't really grasp a human person only by his police record. We are not just a bit more than that, and God is more interested in our love than in our sins. Salvation in Christ is no detail of the mosaic law but instead it is a column in God's temple of faithfulness. I believe I upset God more by some acts of unlove and unkindness towards poor humans than by 1000 transgressions against the Law. Look through the prophets, they rarely mention the Law and sin being defined by it. The Law is a jewish invention and Christ is much more than just the Law, and he is not its servant. He purposely broke the sabbath rules in order to show that doing good and spreading love is much better.
 
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Greg J.

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I have gotten more theological than I like for this forum, so for continued discussion, you could post your view on these issues in the General Theology forum.

If you neither believe (1) the Mosaic Law reveals what God's nature is like to us and as a result is important for our understanding of God nor (2) that the consequences of sin come upon Christians in this life (John 5:14), then there's nothing more I can say. I will just reiterate two points to encourage you to study the Bible:

If you do not keep coming back to the Bible, which does not change, your concept of God will change over time to something manufactured by your own thinking and deductions. Words have no meaning outside of a context, and cannot be correct without understanding the context they were spoken in. Regular Bible study grows our understanding of the whole Bible—the context through which we must understand any verse, because what God said in one book will not contradict what he said in another book, and what is in one part of the Bible bolsters other parts and broadens our understanding. Knowing these truths direct our deductions along correct paths. As we continue to study the Bible, both our knowledge of the verses and our ability to understand them increases. Additionally, a correct understanding of verses in the Bible is only possible when a person is saved (2 Corinthians 3:14-16) AND obedient:

But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. (1 John 2:5-6, 1984 NIV)

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32, 1984 NIV)

Anyone who believes he or she doesn't need to obey God's commands has not recognized who he is or what authority he has. I am not talking about being obedient to the Law. I'm talking about the condition of someone's heart. If he is saved he will want to be obedient to God and obedience will result. Otherwise the person reveals he has not submitted to his Lordship and has rejected who the true God is (reference: see James 2:19 as well as a large portion of the New Testament).

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. (John 14:23-24, 1984 NIV)
 
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lutherangerman

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I agree with a lot you have said here. But I try to see God's commandments as always having to do with love and grace, with virtue. The mosaic law contradicts genuine virtues like mercy, in a bad way, so it can't be my guide. But apart from that we have similar opinions. Except that I go by certain important major points in the bible than going by all the biblical points. I try to stick close to traditional church liturgy. The really good things in our faith have been preserved since its beginning.
 
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Chinchilla

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I have lot's of doubts about God being there

Do you need proof of God existance ? Christ came to fulfill Scriptures to prove who he was , read for example Isaiah 53 written 500 years or so before Christ .
doomed to die and disappear from life.
But disbelieving God does not take the dissapearing part from life . Without God the world is stil doomed because of law of entropy everything is falling apart and energy is being used from stars which will burn out one day anyways if you assume big bang as theory how we got there .

With God you are sure that even tho earth and heaven will pass away he will make new one for us to live Matthew 24:35 , Revelation 21:1 .

I used to be a normal christian and went to church
Going to church does not make you "normal " nor does it make you " Christian" .
Christian is person who has been born again by accepting atonement made by Christ on cross for thier sins . Your behaviour , works or deeds like going to church have nothing to do with being Christian . Early Christians had to meet in houses not in building with cross on top of it and they did it daily not once a week for an hour .

I had a good and kind dad who was an atheist until he died and I feel like I can't accept orthodoxy when it says atheists would go to hell. I hope there is an alternative because not everyone can so easily believe in God and I have had awful doubts too and sometimes still have.

Matthew 10:37 King James Version (KJV)
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Your father is currently waiting for judgement in prison called hell , then he will be resurrected and given a body , then judged and after that thrown into Lake of Fire for eternal damnation and suffering . You can't help you nor your worrying will . God said that he was
a) fool Psalms 14:1
b) without excuse Romans 1:20-26

Yes God is loving God that's why he can't have ANY sinner in heaven or he would not be a loving God . Your father's sin was commited against eternal being so he is guilty for eternity .

God is consuming fire Hebrews 12:29 and because of that we preach the gospel to unbelievers so they don't perich 2 Corinthians 5:11

There is no alternative way thant Christ ( Yehoshua)
 
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Greg J.

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I agree with a lot you have said here. But I try to see God's commandments as always having to do with love and grace, with virtue. The mosaic law contradicts genuine virtues like mercy, in a bad way, so it can't be my guide. But apart from that we have similar opinions. Except that I go by certain important major points in the bible than going by all the biblical points. I try to stick close to traditional church liturgy. The really good things in our faith have been preserved since its beginning.
The Mosaic Law doesn't contradict things like mercy, although I understand how much it can appear that way. Much of the OT is God dealing with people rejecting him. (Also examine OT stories about people who loved the Lord.) The OT depicts what the consequences of sin are, and to be honest, they demonstrate a pretty lame view of the consequences of sin. One of many reasons God punishes those who reject him is because it reveals some of the truth of the path they are on. Hell is a lot worse than any earthly punishment. Punishment does not need to be remedial, but for onlookers, and sometimes the perpetrator, it presents a vivid expression of the truth: we are all born with a sinful nature that cannot withstand God's presence when we die, and that sinful nature left unchecked is going to bloom into pain.

Because God's nature to express his love is greater than his nature to express justice, he wanted and wants to save those who reject him. It is not accurate to say God will punish sinners without also giving the context: We're all justly on our way to hell due to our own decisions. If we don't want to accept God, then we're just getting what we deserve (or, what we "wanted"—as demonstrated by our actions, rather than our feelings).

hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 5:5, 1984 NIV)

Satan stimulates the sinful nature, not destroys it (Mark 3:26). Only God can do something amazingly Good like destroy the sinful nature. However, it causes pain which is an opportunity to turn to God for deliverance. The enormous degree to which our sinful nature keeps us from God is amazing. It is for our own good that God allows, or even causes, pain to help drive us to him. God didn't create pain, nor did he ever want it to exist. That Mark 3:26 verse also applies to God's work. If God is trying to save us from punishment, he cannot be trying to punish us. It is we who are destroying ourselves.

Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. (underline and bold mine, to point out two phrases to contrast, and who is responsible for each; James 1:15-17, 1984 NIV)

Having said all that, I spent twenty years just focusing on God's goodness and other non-scary qualities because my depression and bipolar disorder kept me in a state of pain. It was good that I fought to believe the positive facets of the truth (God is love, peace, kindness, etc.). That is what I was lacking from my faith in God. Perhaps you are in the same place now. However, it is important to associate suffering with sin and not with God. He is the judge, yes, but when a murderer goes to prison, is it the judge's fault? There was a point in time the murderer had a choice. Should God alter the consequences of that choice? Any argument that he should will also apply to the consequences of goodness coming upon someone who does good. The facets of God we love (his attributes that don't remind us of pain) is the same God as in the in the Old Testament. He was longsuffering in the OT. He put up with horrifying things for centuries before acting (e.g., Amorites). Justice is inseparable from love (e.g., loving a community of people), and God's love is absolute and unchanging.
 
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Christfan

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I'm not sure you are correct, Aiki.

When Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross, he said, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing". This is for everyone, including Jesus' killers. When God could forgive them, he can forgive my dad his unbelief. We all go to God's judgment after death anyway, and Jesus sits there and he is the same yesterday, today and forever. Also, God is love and mercy triumphs over judgment, so if God wanted to triumph then he would be merciful to my dad.

I can't think differently anyway, dad's a loved one and my family is also not believing in God. I would be in tears all day in Heaven if they would have to suffer forever. So this can't be it.

You have a sin nature that opposes God 100% which makes us humans fully believe something sinful or wrong is ok/truth. God is truth, him saying unbelievers will be in hell is truth. Same like homosexuals who believe fully they are not sinning even though God says it's a sin. When you get to Heaven, your sin nature will be gone along with erroneous beliefs and understand and agree with God fully. So no, you will not cry over your father everyday.
 
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lastofall

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Seeing that faith cometh only by hearing the Word of God, then we must more abundantly set our heart and mind on His Word that we may learn to not think above that which is written so that we may avoid exaggeration and over-estimation; then may we rightly divide the Word of Truth and cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and finally bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
(Romans 10:17)
(2 Timothy 2:15)
(2 Corinthians 10:5)
 
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lutherangerman

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Some things do not quite add up. I have suffered much sometimes and so I learned the value of mercy and kindness. I do not care about so-called christians preaching fire and brimstone not knowing what they do. They are not real christians in my eyes. Sin is less a crime in Christ's eyes but a sickness. We do not live in the love as we should. So we are not happy. Suppose a stranger on the street gives you a BigMac when you are hungry. You will be happy for half a day probably. So go out and give people gifts too. We shouldn't be so greedy and avaricious. The first christian community in Jerusalem shared everything. That should be an inspiration to us. God's ways are higher than our human ways. He can devise plans against evil and doesn't use violence. His Saints and Angels are always with him.
 
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Hello,

for some years now I am doing very bad. I have lot's of doubts about God being there and I am sick with psychosis and often have days when I feel like everything becomes hell and that we are doomed to die and disappear from life. I used to be a normal christian and went to church and such, but this is hard now because I live in a group home a distance away from church and do not have a car. I also have problems being around people, feeling shy and insecure when I am.

I tried to read the bible but much of the book makes me very afraid. I had a good and kind dad who was an atheist until he died and I feel like I can't accept orthodoxy when it says atheists would go to hell. I hope there is an alternative because not everyone can so easily believe in God and I have had awful doubts too and sometimes still have.

If you could pray for me I would be very grateful. I have obsessive thoughts about satan every day and either feel bad scare or get tempting thoughts about giving in. I normally do not allow that myself but sometimes stuff slipped through. I am tired from fighting and from the fear. I wish I could find a nice christian person to really see through me and deliver me. Thank you and God bless you!

I can help you with your confusion: ask me about scriptures in the Bible.
 
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BobRyan

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I tried to read the bible but much of the book makes me very afraid. I had a good and kind dad who was an atheist until he died and I feel like I can't accept orthodoxy when it says atheists would go to hell !

Be very careful my friend.

1. The Gospel offers the way of escape from hell - and Satan offers the way TO hell. So then who is it that is trying to get you NOT to take the way of escape? God? I think we know that is not true.

2. There is a very bad scenario that you might face when we look at Romans 2. In that chapter we are told that some folks with no Bible at all follow "instinctively" the things of God "showing the work of the Law written on their heart" -- that could very well be your "kind loving atheist Dad". You on the other hand have an actual Bible and know that Gospel offers the way of escape. If you refuse it knowing full well it is life - God will let you reap your own choice. The bottom line... your Dad could end up in heaven and you in hell as if "That was doing dear old Dad a favor". When in fact it was only foolish. He will arrive in heaven , surprised to find that the Gospel was real,,, surprised to find that his child chose to go to hell as a "favor to Dad".

Think about it. Nothing is worth that sort of goofed up ending. Choose heaven. Hope for the best.
 
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