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I have a question!

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Wypadek, Jul 26, 2003.

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  1. Wypadek

    Wypadek Just call me Pad

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    Okay, I am not catholic, but I do have a question. I figured you guys would be the best people to answer it, since, well, yeah, you're catholic. I am not trying to start an argument, I'm just, well, curious and a bit confused I suppose.

    Okay, now that I have rambled for five minutes, here's the question:

    Mary, what exactly does she do? :confused: If that makes sense, I know there is some sort of prayer/intercession thing, but, yeah, that's about it. Clarification would be GREAT! Much appreciated guys! :angel:
     
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  2. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

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    By "do" I will assume you mean what is her role? Her role in the Church is mother. She is our mother and she prays for us and with us to God. She intercedes as in the way you would ask one of your friends here to intercede for you by praying for you and with you.

    If you hear us say things like she obtains graces for us it does not mean what you think. Don't be so hung up on the language that we use. It would be the same as if someone that you know prayed for you and God granted you a grace because they prayed for you. We believe Mary is in somewhat of a better position to ask God to grant our prayers because “the prayers of the righteous prevails much” and she is certainly righteous, anyone who is in heaven is righteous.

    We do not worship her or think that she grants our prayers by her own power. We 'pray' to her to ask her to pray for us. We pray and prayer means to request, it does not mean to worship. We can't exactly call her up on the phone to ask her for some prayers so we 'pray' to her. She is not dead but alive in Christ sharing in eternal life so we are not praying to the dead either, that is not what the OT warns us about, Mary is not dead, she is alive.

    I hope this helps.
     
  3. artnalex

    artnalex Well-Known Member

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    Read your PM Michelle.
     
  4. Wypadek

    Wypadek Just call me Pad

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    One more thing, how is she not dead?
     
  5. nyj

    nyj Goodbye, my puppy

    +1,247
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    Are not all believers alive in Christ? Does that change when we shed this mortal shell?
     
  6. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

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    This is one of my favorite passages of Scripture:

    John 11:21-25
    21Now Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You."
    23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
    24Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
    25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

    While we may be temporarily separated from our physical bodies, Christians do not die. Christ Himself addresses this matter:

    Matthew 22:29-33
    29Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32"I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." 33And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
     
  7. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

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    We are not talking about physical death, we are talking spiritual death. Those in heaven have eternal life. Thai is the whole point in Christianity, we have eternal life all of us, the militant on earth who has to still run the race toward eternal life, the Church suffering, who has to still be purified and the church triumphant that share in glory.

    We are all the Church, the church is not limited to the world, it includes all of us who are saved in this world and in the spiritual world.

    We call this the communion of saints.
     
  8. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

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    Also as I said before we are not "praying" to her as in having her grant anything because of her power, she has no power, she only has love and charity that moves God to grant our prayers because he can not refuse his own mother anything. That is intercession.

    Praying to the dead is conjuring spirits in order for you to have power through them. We do not even come close to doing that.

    The only "dead" we can pray "to" are those in heaven. Even the souls in purgatory we do not pray to, but only pray for.
     
  9. Wypadek

    Wypadek Just call me Pad

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    one more thing, probably :angel:

    Okay, I understand the praying to mary thing, even thought its like talking to her or whatever, but I don't seen how it would work. She isn't God so how does she hear everyone's prayers at once?
     
  10. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not God how can I pray for a entire country of people I don't even know?

    1# God allows her to, that's why and 2# She is outside time and space, not subject to a material world.
     
  11. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

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    I assume you believe that the Saints can hear our prayers if it is God's will for them to hear them.
     
  12. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina Well-Known Member

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    Philip, that's a good question.

    Can you imagine Mary at the switchboard frantically answering all the incoming calls to her?

    Okay explain that to a person who has no clue as to the role of the saints in heaven!
     
  13. Bastoune

    Bastoune Well-Known Member

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    Dear Wypadek:

    Now bear in mind, in Heaven, Mary and all the saints are with the Lord. What else would they be doing than being as equally concerned about the affairs of the Church on Earth as our Lord is?

    Now, can Mary "hear" all our prayers? Well, bear in mind, God and Heaven exist out of time. Think of final judgment, where ALL who ever lived will be judged (Rev. 20:12) -- that would take longer to go through everybody's lives individually than would have lasted the entire existence of the earth! But it's going to happen.

    But that is all secondary. Mary wouldn't hear us in the normal mortal way.

    Remember that she and the saints in Heaven still have the Holy Spirit:

    "For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God ." (Eph. 3:15-19)

    The family of God is in Heaven and on Earth. Nothing separates us other than the physical realms.

    "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. " (Romans 8:26-27)

    Now the Spirit intercedes for us to God, and this same Spirit is in all the Saints as well... And Paul exhorts us to "pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints ." (Eph. 6:18)

    The Holy Spirit who inspires and influences us brings us clarity in our prayer here on Earth, imagine what is going on in the throneroom of God!

    "...the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints ." (Rev. 5:8)

    "Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand " (Rev. 8:3-4)

    Clearly here the saints in Heaven are praying to God.

    What are they praying about?

    1 Timothy 2:1 tells us:

    "I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone-- for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time " (vv. 1-5)

    If it pleases God that we do this on Earth, looking at the scriptural evidence, why wouldn't the Church in Heaven be doing the same thing, and more effectively, without the disturbances of this world but rather in the light of the Lord Himself!
     
  14. artnalex

    artnalex Well-Known Member

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    Good post Tim!
     
  15. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina Well-Known Member

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    Great work, Tim!
     
  16. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

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    Nice work, Tim. I espescially like the passage from Eph. I will have to remember it.
     
  17. TCapp

    TCapp Senior Veteran

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    "God and Heaven exist out of time"

    (not being antagonistic, just curious)

    What do you mean? How did you come to this conclusion? :)
     
  18. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

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    Where is the Scripture which says 1000 years is like one day to the Lord?

    Michelle
     
  19. MariaRegina

    MariaRegina Well-Known Member

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    Dearest TCapp:

    Time is relative - it's man's invention to measure moments and the passing of seasons.

    God is the eternal present. He exists before we were born and will eternally exist.

    Christ, the Eternal Word of God, existed before He "was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary." In fact, the figure of a man who appeared in the fiery furnace with the three children (in the book of Daniel), was Christ. He appeared as a man before He became Man in time.

    This is all a mystery to our finite minds.

    Hope this helps,
    Elizabeth
     
  20. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

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    2 Peter 3:8-9 (RSVA)
    8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

    It is a metaphor used to demonstrate God's patience. It is not a universal de-coder ring for prophesy.
     
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