I have a question about the Trinity.

[EastCoastRemnant]

Where does it say in Scripture, that the Holy Spirit is Jesus' "biological" Father? Jesus is 100% Deity, and has no beginning. Through the working of the Holy Spirit, Mary became "impregnated" with the God-Man, Jesus Christ, 100% God and 100% Man. Neither is God the Father the "actual" Father of Jesus Christ, as there Three Persons are equally God, and coexist from eternity. This is indeed a great Mystery.

What does the word begotten mean to you?

 

[JackRT]

We are made in the flesh, we have an intellect, the mind, and we have a spirit. Yet we are one body.
Three in one.

This comparison to the Trinity fails badly.
--- the intellect is not the body
--- the mind is not the body
--- the spirit is not the body
What you have actually presented is modalism.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

I found out that the key to "understanding" the Trinity was to bow before his mystery and accept him as he is. Why should our limited reason fully understand God? Why should we fully understand how Jesus can be fully God and fully human? God is beyond our limited human reasoning and comprehension. Think about it. If God cannot be comprehended, then the writers of the Bible could not understand him either. Therefore, God must have revealed himself, his will, and his miraculous actions in history to them. As a result, the Bible was definitely inspired, as 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says.

However, I read a liberal NT scholar who didn't believe in the Bible's inspiration. He said after studying the Gospel of John thoroughly that John believed that God is a Trinity. My advice to you is to take time one day and read John's book in one sitting. See there the amazing mystery that God is and the glory of God-man Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection that cure our doubts like those of Thomas.

I learned that I'm a mere limited creature and that he's the unlimited Creator, Rescuer, and Restorer. My reasoning cannot even approach his.

 

[TheBibleSays]

If you were to read these, and other passages in the Greek, you will see that the preposition used for Jesus' "coming forth from the Father", is not "ek", or "ex", which denote origin, but "para", with show relation, that He was always "with God", and came from besides Him, as Two distinct Persons. God the Father is not the "literal" "begetter" of the Deity of Jesus Christ, and Jesus' human nature is 100% (apart from sin) derived from Mary, which is also seen from the use of the singular feminine in Matthew 1:16, and the Greek preposition "ek", used for "source". The Father is Almighty God, in the same way both the Son and Holy Spirit are. The Relationship between the First Person (use does not in any way show priority, or greatness), in the Trinity, and the Second Person, is revealed as "Father" and "Son". I do not believe that the "eternal Sonship of Jesus Christ", is Biblical. This is something that He bacame at His Incarnation. This is clear from Isaiah 9:6, where "the Son is given"; and Hebrews 1:5, "I will be to Him a Father"; both used in Prophecy.

 

[TheBibleSays]

What does the word begotten mean to you?

Are you referring to the term as found in versions like the KJV, where Jesus is called the "only begotten"? If so, the Greek is "monogenes", which is literally from "mono", "single", and "genos", "kind", which is best rendered in English by "unique", or "one of a kind". There is not notion of "begetting" in the use of "monogenes", which is a misuse of the Greek, which was so done by the Latin scholar, Jerome, in his combating the Arian heresy. The correct Latin is "unicus", but Jerome and some of the others at his time, changed this to read, "unigenitus", for which the corresponding Greek would have had to have been, "monogennetos", which is not the case.

 

[Neostarwcc]

The singular Hebrew word for God is "eloah".

Oh I didn't know that. Thanks for answering. I always thought elohim was the singular word for God. I learn something new everyday. It definitely is weird that the OT never uses the word Eloah then.

 

[TheBibleSays]

Oh I didn't know that. Thanks for answering. I always thought elohim was the singular word for God. I learn something new everyday. It definitely is weird that the OT never uses the word Eloah then.

What makes you think that "eloah" is never used in the OT? It is used for the One True God of the Holy Bible many times, though not as much as "elohim" is used. Like, Deuternomy 32:15; Psalm 50:22. In the Book of Job, "eloah" is used about 40 times, for both The True God of the Bible, and false gods.

 

[TheBibleSays]

What is your point?

No point, just stating facts...

 

[Neostarwcc]

What makes you think that "eloah" is never used in the OT? It is used for the One True God of the Holy Bible many times, though not as much as "elohim" is used. Like, Deuternomy 32:15; Psalm 50:22. In the Book of Job, "eloah" is used about 40 times, for both The True God of the Bible, and false gods.

Really? I didn't know. When I heard of God being mentioned in the OT I've heard of Elohim and Yahweh (which is God's name right?). I've never heard of the word Eloah before.

 

[truefiction1]

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

You are also three in one: your self, your thoughts, and your affects (feelings). The Father has thought (Logos) and feeling (Spirit). These three comprise one Living Being, and in God the three are unique Persons together from all Eternity. The Logos and the Spirit of the Father are always with the Father, as they are Eternally from the Father - parts of His very Being. That is why the Holy Apostle and Evangelist John states: "... and the Word (Logos) was with God, and the Word (Logos) was God"

Scripture tells us that the Spirit of God is the Lord, just as it tells us that Jesus Christ (the Logos) is the Lord:

"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." (2 Corinthians 3:17-18)

"... if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.(Romans 10:9)

... and Scripture states plainly that "God is the Lord" (Psalm 117:27)

How can Both the Word of God and the Spirit of God be the Lord if God is the Lord, yet they somehow are not God?

The answer is simple and True: All Three - Father, Word, and Spirit - are God, and we are in the image of God, having our self, our word, and our spirit. The Holy Trinity is not "three gods" any more than you personally are "three human beings".

 

[ProjectExodus]

The Spirit of God hovered on the waters. There are many verses that talk about the Spirit of God as a Godhead doing something. Since the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, it is God. I'm not sure if the bible claims they are three distinct personalities, that may be something we have come up with the explain it in simple terms. I'm not sure if they are totally distinct, or just have distinct natures. Someone will have to correct me here. I can assure you, worshiping God is not a sin. Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, the Father is God. God is one. Worshiping one Godhead or the other is still not a sin, but don't worship either as if they are a stand alone entity, or you will be in sin. Some things are just outside our scope to fully understand and fathom, but that's just how it is.

Consider God as one light, all three personalities are in that light, and one at the same time. That's the best analogy. Something more crude would be a lump of clay where three Godheads are carved into one lump, but the base of the clay and the fact that they are all in the same clay, shows they are one clay.

Oh, and as for the verse that says he is God. "Baptize in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost." It is highly unlikely we are baptizing in the name of the father, son, and some special angel. The notion of "Holy Ghost." should be enough. It is God's Holy Ghost.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Okay so, God is three distinct persons in one God correct? But how can that be? Isn't the worship of one God in three distinct persons worshipping three different Gods? Where in scripture has it been said that the Holy Spirit is God?

I mean in Genesis 1:26 God says "Let us create mankind in our image" now if God were not at least two in one why would he have said something like this? But yet how can God possibly be three distinct fully God persons and yet still be one God? It's just not possible and I might have to wait until I meet God to know the truth. But it does make me wonder... Can somebody please satisfactorily answer my question? Thanks.

Want to share what I learned so far. Genesis one to two Clearly and unambiguously. Contains all persons of the Trinity.

1. GOD "father" of all.
2. God's spoken WORD by which God creates creation. Example "God SAID 'let there be light' and there was light."
3. God's BREATH. Or spirit. Which quickens and enlivens? Example God BREATHED into the nostrils of Adam to make him alive.

And yet, please don't get confused Genesis 1:26. depicts God speaking to his DIVINE COUNCIL. All of his angelic host. Throughout Genesis, one everything is still all GOOD. The fall hasn't happened yet. The rebellion of Lucifer hadn't occurred yet. In Genesis, 1:26, God was speaking to his Divine Council, including all Angels. Even Satan and the third Angels, who would eventually follow after his rebellion.

That fall in Heaven had already occured by the middle of Genesis, 2 when even eaten had a tree of good and evil and a serpent. That is the first time the word evil or bad is used in scripture. So somewhere between the end of Genesis 1 and the middle of Genesis 2. Elsewhere, in Heaven, not explicitly described in the Genesis account. The fall in Heaven had occurred. And came to impinge upon our planet.

Genesis 1:26. depicts God speaking to his DIVINE COUNCIL It's not a reference to the Trinity at all.

 

[TheBibleSays]

Really? I didn't know. When I heard of God being mentioned in the OT I've heard of Elohim and Yahweh (which is God's name right?). I've never heard of the word Eloah before.

Here are some of the other Hebrew words used in the Old Testament, for the One True God of the Bible. 1. 'el; 2. 'elah; 3. 'eloah; 4. 'elohim; 5. 'el shadday (God Almighty); etc, etc. Then we have the Name of God, as given to Moses in Exodus chapter 3, which in its original form, was the four Hebrew consonants, YHWH, known as the Tetragrammaton. This Name was considered as far to sacred for the Jews to use, so they added vowels to it, thereby giving us "Yahweh". This Majestic Name of Almighty God, has its Hebrew root, in what The Angel of the Lord, Who is the Lord Jesus Christ, in His converestion with Moses in Exodus chapter 3, said, "’Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh", which is commonly (and rightly) translated as "I am Who I am". The Greek Old Testament, which was made some 150 years before the Birth of Jesus, by first-rate Hebrew scholars, have translated the Hebrew as, "ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which literally is, "I am the Eternal, Self-Existing One". This is exactly what the Name YAHWEH means. In many places in the OT, the Jews replaced Yahweh, with 'Adonay (also, Lord). So, for example, in Psalm 110:1, "The Lord said to my Lord...". The Hebrew has it, "Yahweh said to 'Adonay". Interestingly, there is a Hebrew manuscript that reads, "Yahweh said to Yahweh". Two Persons Who are called YAHWEH. In fact, in verse 5 of this Psalm, where we read, "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath", where in later Hebrew manuscripts, "Lord" is 'Adonay. However, the older and better Hebrew manuscripts, it read, "Yahweh". This "Lord" is the same 'Adonay of verse one, Who is clearly known as YAHWEH (the Lord Jesus Christ), which was corrupted by the Jews, to try to remove the Deity of Jesus! In Genesis 19:24, we have a very interesting reading. In Chapter 18, one of the three men who appeared to Abraham, was none other than Yahweh, where the KJV Bible renders it, "LORD". In this verse in chapter 19, both uses of "Lord", then One on earth, Jesus Christ, and the Other in heaven, in the Hebrew, is YAHWEH!

 

[TheBibleSays]

Want to share what I learned so far. Genesis one to two Clearly and unambiguously. Contains all persons of the Trinity.

1. GOD "father" of all.
2. God's spoken WORD by which God creates creation. Example "God SAID 'let there be light' and there was light."
3. God's BREATH. Or spirit. Which quickens and enlivens? Example God BREATHED into the nostrils of Adam to make him alive.

And yet, please don't get confused Genesis 1:26. depicts God speaking to his DIVINE COUNCIL. All of his angelic host. Throughout Genesis, one everything is still all GOOD. The fall hasn't happened yet. The rebellion of Lucifer hadn't occurred yet. In Genesis, 1:26, God was speaking to his Divine Council, including all Angels. Even Satan and the third Angels, who would eventually follow after his rebellion.

That fall in Heaven had already occured by the middle of Genesis, 2 when even eaten had a tree of good and evil and a serpent. That is the first time the word evil or bad is used in scripture. So somewhere between the end of Genesis 1 and the middle of Genesis 2. Elsewhere, in Heaven, not explicitly described in the Genesis account. The fall in Heaven had occurred. And came to impinge upon our planet.

Genesis 1:26. depicts God speaking to his DIVINE COUNCIL It's not a reference to the Trinity at all.

Your language makes the Godhead as "impersonal"? or, is it "unipersonal"?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

You are quite wrong to assume that the Holy Trinity is anywhere taught in the passage from Isaiah 9. The whole Prophecy is about The Child, Who is the Lord Jesus Christ. Note, Isaiah says, "He will be called", which is Jesus Christ. Wonderful Counselor, here refers to Jesus, Who, like the Holy Spirit is also called Counselor in 1 John 2:1, where the same Greek word is translated Advocate. Neither Mighty God, or Everlasting Father (or better, as the Hebrew has it, "Father of Eternity"), here are used for God the Father, because all of the Titles/Names, are ONLY used for Jesus Christ.

In my view I am quite correct and you are refusing the full truth of the passages. I can not explain further, the passages speak for themselves.
It is wonderful to go back to the Greek and Hebrew, but the translators began from that point and have a broader understanding of those languages than we as the typical Bible reader. I do own a Hebrew Greek English Interlinear as well...we could start arguing what manuscripts are to be accepted and which have been fiddled with...to no avail!
Remember too that Jesus said that wisdom of the Bible was hidden from the wise and learned and given to the children...it is seriously to be considered.

 

[TheBibleSays]

In my view I am quite correct and you are refusing the full truth of the passages. I can not explain further, the passages speak for themselves.
It is wonderful to go back to the Greek and Hebrew, but the translators began from that point and have a broader understanding of those languages than we as the typical Bible reader. I do own a Hebrew Greek English Interlinear as well...we could start arguing what manuscripts are to be accepted and which have been fiddled with...to no avail!
Remember too that Jesus said that wisdom of the Bible was hidden from the wise and learned and given to the children...it is seriously to be considered.

It clearly says that ALL of the Names that are in this passage, are for the Son, "He will be called...", and yet you want to argue your point! I am done here.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It clearly says that ALL of the Names that are in this passage, are for the Son, "He will be called...", and yet you want to argue your point! I am done here.

If He is called, He is...you do not call someone by an incorrect name. This is what 3-in-one is. This is Jesus Immanuel!

 

[Erik Nelson]

Your language makes the Godhead as "impersonal"? or, is it "unipersonal"?

person | Origin and meaning of person by Online Etymology Dictionary

person means character or actor in a play

God is unseen, behind the curtain so to speak, the divine actors which interact with Creation are the Word and Breath/Spirit

 

[JackRT]

person | Origin and meaning of person by Online Etymology Dictionary

person means character or actor in a play

God is unseen, behind the curtain so to speak, the divine actors which interact with Creation are the Word and Breath/Spirit

Interesting variation on the heresy of modalism.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Interesting variation on the heresy of modalism.

ok, how about using the Greek?

what is your definition of hypostasis, if you don't like the meaning of "person" as "actor"?

hypostasis | Origin and meaning of hypostasis by Online Etymology Dictionary

i understand that modalism denies the dependence of the Word and Spirit on the Father, by begetting and procession