I have a few questions, please...

[CopticGirl]

I have a friend, who is going to try and start attending an Antiochian Orthodox Church.

His background is Baptist, so he has a long way to go. But, I've taught him a lot about the Orthodox faith and he's attended my church a few times, so he's ready to leave his church and learn more about Orthodoxy. Unfortunately there are no Oriental Churches near him, so he is headed in your direction.

A few questions:

-I assume the services are in English in an Antiochian Church, right?

-Are there any other churches that have their liturgies in English? For example, he lives less than a mile away from a Greek Orthodox Church, but he is the type of person that needs an English service. Does each church vary?

-So, I was thinking of having him go to Vespers, but I have never attending Vespers in an EO Church, and was wondering if it is different from the Coptic Orthodox Church's vespers? http://www.agpeya.org/Vespers/vespers.html

-Does he need to bring his own prayer book for the services, or does the church usually have them?

-Is there somewhere online where I can read the prayers of the Vespers for an Antiochian Orthodox Church?

-What liturgy does the Antiochian Church use? Is there a copy of that I can read online as well?

And a little off topic, but I was looking at websites for churches near him, and I found one, but there was something about it that I didn't like. Each year the members of the church have to fill out what is called a "pledge form" and document how much they are going to donate to the church each year.

This kinda bothered me. I understand that all churches need donations, and that is what they live on. I also understand that we should all donate to our church. What I don't understand is why it is necessary to have it down on paper with your name. I always viewed donations as a private, personal thing. Is this a typical process for EO churches, or is this one unique?

Please, let me know if you have any advice for my friend. Thank you!

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Zacharias]

-What liturgy does the Antiochian Church use? Is there a copy of that I can read online as well?

Hre you go: http://www.sspeterpaul.org/priest.html

 

[Photini]

-Are there any other churches that have their liturgies in English? For example, he lives less than a mile away from a Greek Orthodox Church, but he is the type of person that needs an English service. Does each church vary?

I go to a Greek church, and Father uses about half Greek and half English. I am pretty sure it varies from church to church, depending on the needs of the congregation.

 

[Llauralin]

-Are there any other churches that have their liturgies in English? For example, he lives less than a mile away from a Greek Orthodox Church, but he is the type of person that needs an English service. Does each church vary?

-Does he need to bring his own prayer book for the services, or does the church usually have them?

My church also has both Greek and English, so that native speakers of both languages can understand it. It also has copies of the liturgy in Greek, phonetic Greek, and English.

I went to another Greek Orthodox mission parish though that was entirely in English, and the people sung verything, as there was not choir, so I guess it varies.

 

[RobNJ]

If there's an OCA parish nearby, they use all English

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Vespers would be a great service to attend. Antiochian Parishes, to the best of my knowledge, are 99% English (there may be some immigrant communities where this is not the case, but every Antiochian Parish I've ever been too was entirely in English, with a few "ya rub burham"s and "kyrie eleison"s here and there.)

You should know too that there is a great deal of our hymnography that deals explicitely with the two natures of Christ, and it often pops up in the variable hymns of Vespers (The only reason I mention this is so that you know- I'm not trying to start any debates or anything, just letting you/him(her?) know that there will be differences, liturgically and theologically.) Sounds like your friend is definitely heading in the right direction (away from Baptist )

Moses

 

[Eusebios]

OCA parishes will be nearly 100% Engliah
Serrvice books are generally provided
Many parishes ask for pledges in order that the parish council can accurately budget thier expenses and plan capital improvements etc. Not all do however.
in Xp,
Eusebios.

 

[Maximus]

Pledge cards are the ecclesiastical version of wishful thinking. No one has to fill them out and pledge a certain amount every month. Good priests understand that some people have more to give than others. I have never experienced any pressure in that regard.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Antiochian here... yep 99% English....

Methods of donations are often left to the Parish.

 

[Irish Melkite]

Elizabeth,

I'm guessing that your friend lives in eastern MA. If you want to name the city/town, I may be able to tell you a bit about the various Orthodox parishes in the area.

Many years,

Neil

 

[CopticGirl]

Thanks for your responses, everyone.
Moses,

You should know too that there is a great deal of our hymnography that deals explicitely with the two natures of Christ, and it often pops up in the variable hymns of Vespers (The only reason I mention this is so that you know- I'm not trying to start any debates or anything, just letting you/him(her?) know that there will be differences, liturgically and theologically.) Sounds like your friend is definitely heading in the right direction (away from Baptist )

While, I will always be a Coptic Orthodox Christian, I personally have no problem with Eastern Orthodoxy, or the terminology regarding Christology, so that's why I'm sending him in this direction. But this isn't about me, this is about him, and I'm sure he can make a decision on his own. To be honest, I'm just happy he's not staying at the Baptist church!

Neil, he lives in Hull, MA. So, my church, could take him about an hour to get to, and knowing my friend, he would need one that is a little closer.

But he definately needs the church to have services he'll understand--I know he won't learn any new languages. Whichever church he attends will hopefully have a welcoming congregation. He has a lot of friends, but unfortuantely, other than myself, he has no strong Christian influence on him.

I also know that he works ALL day on Sunday, so a church with services on other days of the week would be a great help to him.

Finally, when it comes to the donation stuff. I do think that all should donate to their church, but I just didn't want him to feel pressured and uncomfortable with it. Know what I mean?

Thanks for all your help.

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Rilian]

Hello CopticGirl, I just saw this thread. My parish is Antiochian so I'll try and have a crack at a few of these.

-I assume the services are in English in an Antiochian Church, right?

In almost all of them now I think yes. Some parishes still have services in Arabic though I believe, or at least part of the service anyway. My impression is that's fairly rare now however.

Are there any other churches that have their liturgies in English? For example, he lives less than a mile away from a Greek Orthodox Church, but he is the type of person that needs an English service. Does each church vary?

They can vary. The most likely to have all English services in my experience would be either Antiochian or OCA. There's always exceptions to the rule though. The GOA church I've gone to with a friend is about 50/50 Greek and English.

-So, I was thinking of having him go to Vespers, but I have never attending Vespers in an EO Church, and was wondering if it is different from the Coptic Orthodox Church's vespers? http://www.agpeya.org/Vespers/vespers.html

I looked at the site you posted and it appears to be a little different, but overall I would say it's pretty close. Here's a GOA site that has the texts of a number of services. The English used in the AOA is a little different, but overall these texts should be in line with what you would see in an AOA parish.

-Does he need to bring his own prayer book for the services, or does the church usually have them?

They should be supplied by the church.

-Is there somewhere online where I can read the prayers of the Vespers for an Antiochian Orthodox Church?

I can't find the service book online now. The best I can do is the link to the GOA site I posted above.

-What liturgy does the Antiochian Church use? Is there a copy of that I can read online as well?

It should also be above. The normal Sunday liturgy is the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. St. Basil's is used on a few occassions such as the Sunday of Orthodoxy. The presactified liturgy used during Lent is probably the other most common one.

And a little off topic, but I was looking at websites for churches near him, and I found one, but there was something about it that I didn't like. Each year the members of the church have to fill out what is called a "pledge form" and document how much they are going to donate to the church each year.

This kinda bothered me. I understand that all churches need donations, and that is what they live on. I also understand that we should all donate to our church. What I don't understand is why it is necessary to have it down on paper with your name. I always viewed donations as a private, personal thing. Is this a typical process for EO churches, or is this one unique?

We use pledging at our church. The reason is the parish council can form a budget around it and have an idea of how much money they have to work with over the year. Pledging is not a requirement, but Father asks anybody who thinks they will be giving regularly to consider pledging.

Traditionally I don't think Orthodox churches have done this. I think they have relied for the most part on collections and guesstimate based on past giving and then hoped that things like bake sales or ethnic fests will fill in the rest.

 

[Rilian]

he lives in Hull, MA.

I just went to the AOA home page and put in the zip for Hull. It came back with 7 parishes within 25 miles.

 

[choirfiend]

Here's a listing of the 12 closest churches to your friend. I have seen that the closest AOA church, All Saints, has moved locations from what is listed here....

Nativity of the Virgin Mary
Parishes
GOA 811 Jerusalem Rd
Cohasset, MA 02025 6 miles
Detail Map 781.383.6380
Father.Johnm@Verizon.net
www.panagiaparish.goarch.org/

All Saints Mission
Parishes
ANT POB 126
Hingham, MA 02043 6 miles
Detail Map 781.740.0220

St. Catherine Church
Parishes
GOA 157 Beale Street
Quincy, MA 02170 7 miles
Detail Map 617.773.2545

Holy Trinity Church
Parishes
ADA 245 D Street
PO Box 224
South Boston, MA 02127 8 miles
Detail Map 617.268.7808

St. John the Baptist Church
Parishes
OCA 410 W Broadway
South Boston, MA 02127 8 miles
Detail Map 617.268.3564

St. George Cathedral
Parishes
OCA 523 E Broadway
South Boston, MA 02127 8 miles
Detail Map 617.268.1275

St. Petka Church
Parishes
BEC PO Box 2485
Boston, MA 02208 10 miles
Detail Map 781.933.7636

St. John The Baptist Church
Parishes
GOA 15 Union Park Street
Boston, MA 02118 10 miles
Detail Map 617.536.5692
info@saintjohnthebaptist.org
www.saintjohnthebaptist.org/

Nativity of the Virgin Mary Church
Parishes
OCA 8 Addison St
Chelsea, MA 02150 10 miles
Detail Map 617.884.3353
burbank302@aol.com
www.ocachelsea.org/

Holy Trinity Cathedral
Parishes
OCA 165 Park Dr
Boston, MA 02215 12 miles
Detail Map 617.262.9490
holytrinityorthodox.org/

St. Andrew Parish
Parishes
UCU 24 Orchard Hill Rd.
Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 12 miles
Detail Map 617.522.3323
fatherandriy@erols.com
www.ukrainianorthodox.org/

St. George Church
Parishes
GOA 54 S Common St
Lynn, MA 01902 12 miles
Detail Map 781.593.6162
stgeorgely@aol.com
www.stgeorgelynn.org/

 

[choirfiend]

You should be able to call any of those parishes and ask them about their chosen language, service times, etc. Good luck!

Oh, and btw, I got this info from http://orthodoxyinamerica.org . It's pretty handy.

 

[Irish Melkite]

Here's a listing of the 12 closest churches to your friend. I have seen that the closest AOA church, All Saints, has moved locations from what is listed here....

Nativity of the Virgin Mary
Parishes
GOA 811 Jerusalem Rd
Cohasset, MA 02025 6 miles
Detail Map 781.383.6380
Father.Johnm@Verizon.net
www.panagiaparish.goarch.org/

All Saints Mission
Parishes
ANT POB 126
Hingham, MA 02043 6 miles
Detail Map 781.740.0220

St. Catherine Church
Parishes
GOA 157 Beale Street
Quincy, MA 02170 7 miles
Detail Map 617.773.2545

Holy Trinity Church
Parishes
ADA 245 D Street
PO Box 224
South Boston, MA 02127 8 miles
Detail Map 617.268.7808

St. John the Baptist Church
Parishes
OCA 410 W Broadway
South Boston, MA 02127 8 miles
Detail Map 617.268.3564

St. George Cathedral
Parishes
OCA 523 E Broadway
South Boston, MA 02127 8 miles
Detail Map 617.268.1275

St. Petka Church
Parishes
BEC PO Box 2485
Boston, MA 02208 10 miles
Detail Map 781.933.7636

St. John The Baptist Church
Parishes
GOA 15 Union Park Street
Boston, MA 02118 10 miles
Detail Map 617.536.5692
info@saintjohnthebaptist.org
www.saintjohnthebaptist.org/

Nativity of the Virgin Mary Church
Parishes
OCA 8 Addison St
Chelsea, MA 02150 10 miles
Detail Map 617.884.3353
burbank302@aol.com
www.ocachelsea.org/

Holy Trinity Cathedral
Parishes
OCA 165 Park Dr
Boston, MA 02215 12 miles
Detail Map 617.262.9490
holytrinityorthodox.org/

St. Andrew Parish
Parishes
UCU 24 Orchard Hill Rd.
Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 12 miles
Detail Map 617.522.3323
fatherandriy@erols.com
www.ukrainianorthodox.org/

St. George Church
Parishes
GOA 54 S Common St
Lynn, MA 01902 12 miles
Detail Map 781.593.6162
stgeorgely@aol.com
www.stgeorgelynn.org/

Fiend,

Excellent site, but don't rely on their distance estimates. Except for the churches in Hull and Hingham, all of the others would need to be at least doubled.

Elizabeth,

If he can get to Saint Mark's from Hull in an hour, I don't even know why I'm worrying about distances - because he obviously travels by jet

Forget the churches in Chelsea (Nativity - OCA) and Lynn (St George - GOA) the only way that they're 10 and 12 miles respectively from Hull would be as the seagull flies - across Boston Harbor (more like 25 and 35 miles - and that's being optimistic).

St Andrew the-First-Called (JP - Ukr) is an exquisitely beautiful temple but, like many Ukrainian churches, it is very ethnic and would likely not be the most welcoming.

Holy Trinity, St John the Baptist, and St George's Cathedral (all in So. Boston - the latter two OCA parishes) all serve Albanian congregations and, while very welcoming, are likely to be more ethnic than your friend may find comfortable.

St Petka (Boston - Bulgarian) isn't actually a parish; from what I understand, it's a Bulgarian Orthodox cultural/social service agency. The only Bulgarian Orthodox parish in Boston is Holy Resurrection, a tiny mission in Allston.

The OCA Cathedral of the Holy Trinity is over on the Fenway, easily 20+ miles from Hull and a traffic nightmare if the Sox are playing.

St John the Baptist (Boston - GOA) is down in the South End and has a very ethnic Greek congregation. It's likely that most of the Liturgy will be served in Greek.

St. Catherine's (GOA) isn't in Quincy any longer. They moved, as of about 6 months ago, to somewhere on Common Street in Braintree. Historically, that has been a very ethnic parish and I'd expect much of the Liturgy to be in Greek.

All Saints (Antiochian) isn't in Hull anymore; it's over in Abington, on 139, just past the intersection of 18. It's still about 18 miles - but it's a straight run on 139 (as straight as 139 is ). It's do-able, I suppose, and I never hesitate to recommend an Antiochian parish; as others have pointed out, most serve the Liturgy principally (almost exclusively) in English. Although I don't know this particular parish (other than to have seen the temple in passing), I know the area and it's very unlikely that the congregation is immigrant-based, so I'd expect English usage to predominate.

I'd go with Nativity (Cohasset - GOA) for ease of travel. (Folks unfamiliar with eastern Mass. need to understand that Hull is somewhat isolated from the world - saying something is only 25 miles from Hull is sort of like suggesting interplanetary travel - take a [url="http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?csz=Hull+MA"]look here[/url] and you'll see what I mean ).

Nativity's website shows that about half of those listed for various reasons have non-Greek names, a good indicator that English will be used in serving a significant percentage of the Liturgy. I believe that Father Protopresbyter John Maheras, who is the pastor there, was the designated representative of Metropolitan Methodios at the installation of our new Eparch last summer; if it was him, he's a very pleasant individual.

As to Liturgies on other than Sunday, that's tough. You might find Saturday evening Vespers, but don't count on it.

Many years,

Neil

 

[choirfiend]

Except, Irish, that would be going to a Catholic church and the poster is interested in going to an Orthodox one....Come come, don't try to do things like that...

 

[Irish Melkite]

Except, Irish, that would be going to a Catholic church and the poster is interested in going to an Orthodox one....Come come, don't try to do things like that...

Fiend,

If you've followed my posts here these past few months, you know that I ordinarily wouldn't do anything like that.

My point is (and I think you'd agree) that finding a Divine Liturgy on other than Sunday is difficult except in the largest of Orthodox parishes. I know most every parish listed and none of them (except the OCA Cathedral of the Holy Trinity and St Andrew the-First-Called) are what one would call large. With that in mind, and knowing that Elizabeth is looking for him to experience Eastern Christianity, I threw in the Maronite parish, since it's reasonably close to Elizabeth's friend geographically and it's Eastern - (at least as Eastern as any Maronite temple is ).

Notice that I made it clear that it is Catholic - not trying to do any poaching; it's not my style. But, over the years, I have pointed inquirers interested in Eastern Catholicism to Orthodox temples and those interested in Orthodoxy to Eastern Catholic temples when only one or the other was readily available to them and they were thirsting to experience the East. I've never felt that I've done a dis-service to either Church or to the inquirers by doing so - just as I am quick to recommend the writings of both Archbishop Raya, of blessed memory, and Bishop Kallistos Ware to anyone interested in the East.

Many years,

Neil

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Neil:

Are you back from Austria? How was the trip?

Regarding Maronite Churches:

The ones here in Los Angeles tend to be quite anti-Eastern, which seems surprising, but they are very proud of their unbroken chain of allegiance to the Pope of Rome. For this reason, some of the Maronite bishops and priest have in the past accused the Melkites of being in schism. This was apparently picked up by some Roman Catholic priests here in Los Angeles, especially the pastor at St. Charles Borreomeo in North Hollywood who as late as 1994 was telling his congregation that the Melkites were in union with the Orthodox and not to attend that parish as it was not in union with Rome.

BTW: Bishop John was very aware of this problem and was addressing it. That is why we found out about it.

 

[Irish Melkite]

Are you back from Austria? How was the trip?

Elizabeth,

You didn't believe that story, I hope

Since Incognitus and I met at the ByzForum (although I am certain we know each other from real-life, but he won't take the paper bag off his head ), he has had a running joke that the first Melkite was Saint Colm of Melk, an early Irish monastic who was martyred and buried at Melk in Austria. Periodically, he dredges it up.

Many years,

Neil

btw, I got your invite to the recipe thread for the Fast of the Dormition. There's a great meatless chili that Theophan and I concocted last year over at ByzForum and which we've taste tested . I'll dig the recipe out and post it in a day or two.