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I have a dilemma

Discussion in 'Questions by Non-Christians (Archived)' started by KBeeks, May 24, 2002.

  1. KBeeks

    KBeeks New Member

    1
    +0
    Now I am new to being a christian, so i don't know much, and i have a question that concerns me: I heard that if you commit suicide then you go to hell, now would that be true if you were held up by a terrorist in a airplane, who told you to either kill yourself or he will kill everyone else on the plane, so you kill yourself and they live. Would you still go to hell, I mean its saving peoples lives, right?
     
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  2. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

    +230
    Messianic
    There is nothing in the bible that says if you commit suicide, you will go to hell.
     
  3. papakapp

    papakapp a waterdrop going over niagra falls

    +22
    Christian
    First off CONGRADULATIONS!! I became a Christian about 8 months ago myself.

    Second, if you go to a church that says that you go to hell if you commit suicide, I would step back and take a careful look at that church.

    Make sure your church believes that only belief in Jesus is how you become a true christian. If they preach that salvation comes by any other way...(good works, an individual other that Jesus such as the founder of that denomination or the current living leader of that denomination.)Then you are in a false church.

    True churches say "look to Jesus" "All other people are sinners and not worthy of worship."

    If your church does this then I believe it is a true christian church, even if it teaches you go to hell if you commit suicide.

    And you can still be a christian if you have doubts. My fiancee actually has doubts about that very same issue. And she is a very strong christian. In fact she is the strongest christian her age I think I have ever met.
     
  4. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    Suicide is a self-absorbed act of despair and rejection. I can only say this because I once tried it. Praise God, He stopped me. His love endures forever. :bow:

    "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
    This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers." 1John 3:14-16

    This verse is only one of many in the Bible which maintain that those who persist in sin will not inherit eternal life. This is because anyone who lives by the Spirit of God will not continue to grieve the Spirit, but will be changed by God in the image of Christ. This is God's promise. Murderers, adulterers and the like will not inherit the kingdom of heaven because in the forgiveness of Christ, they will turn from their sin...yet, for those who continue in sin, there is no sacrifice for sin left.(Heb 10:26)

    Someone who commits suicide murders themself and rejects the gift of eternal life. Read 1 Peter 3:8-22. A Spirit-filled Christian will endure hardship because Christ lives in them and it is to God's glory that we endure. Suicide is not an act which the Spirit of God would allow one of his Children to do.

    "Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature will reap destruction ; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up ....Neither uncircumcised or circumsized means anything; what counts is a new creation ." (Eph 6:7-8, 15)

    There's an even better NT verse on this topic (which very clearly states that those who reject this life cannot attain the next), but I have been unable to find it. :confused: I apologize for my lack of knowledge at this juncture. When I find it, I will do my best to post it here.

    :scratch: May I also say that I am not a member of a cult, nor do I worship a man nor have any desire that a man worship me. The judgment placed upon myself and the church I belong to by a previous statement is uncalled for and displays a lack of knowledge of the Scriptures. It is the cults that teach that suicide is ok, not vice versa.

    "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world."

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  5. _Orion

    _Orion Regular Member

    341
    +13
    Agnostic
    Thou Shalt Not Kill...

    seems obvious to me...

    My first post...wasn't that bad :)
     
  6. Josephus

    Josephus <b>Co-Founder Christian Forums</b> Supporter

    +230
    Messianic
    well, we know it's a sin. just like lusting after another woman is a sin too. What is important is if you consider yourself redeemed from your sins by the work of Jesus Christ.
     
  7. _Orion

    _Orion Regular Member

    341
    +13
    Agnostic
    I thought that knowingly committing a sin with the assumption of forgiveness is wrong.

    Am I missing something?

    Having a problem posting...hopefully this will go thru...
     
  8. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    That's my point exactly. "we must pay more careful attention therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift [or cast ourselves!] away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? (Heb. 2:1-3)

    still can't find the verse I'm looking for... :sigh:

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  9. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    However, let me add that Josephus is right...if one could repent (say perhaps they do heroin and know theyre going to die, and then, in a last moment, repent to God, yet would still have been responsible for their own deaths)...who is to limit God's grace ? Surely not I.

    Even so...the Word is clear that one already seeking God would not willfully take their own life.

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  10. Vijaykyu

    Vijaykyu Credo

    112
    +3
    Catholic
    Dear Othneil,
    Here's acouple of verses for you ; 1 Samuel 31:4-6. Here you will read of Saul and his armour bearer commiting suicide. Presented here as mere fact, not judged, just fact. THen flip over to 2 Samuel 1:17-27. David's lament for Saul, not as a failure, not as a bad example, as a hero.
    But Saul was under great duress. So is anyone who considers suicide. If we take the illustration of God as Father, we see God sends His children out into the world. The world is beautiful, wonderful place. But along the way, Some of His children get lost and scared, and can't see the beauty any more. All they want is to go home. I can't think of anyone worthy of the name Father who could turn a lost, scared child away. As Jesus says in Matthew 7:9 "Which of you if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?...If you then, even though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give you good gifts."
    In Christ
    Vincent
     
  11. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    I just spent 45 min responding, and then my computer ate it, so...you'll have to settle for this:

    Saul did not commit suicide. He failed at it and then got someone else to finish the job (2 Sam 1:4-10).

    Using Saul as a reason to teach that suicide is an acceptable form of ending life in God's eyes is to twist the text to fit one's own opinion. No where does the text allow one to believe that Saul has accepted the Lord and is forgiven. The last we hear, the Lord has departed from Saul (1 Sam 16:14) and never returns.

    Furthermore, it would seem unwise to rely on Scripture which does not discuss an issue when there are plenty of New Testament texts which give us a clearer answer...1 John 3:10, for example:

    "This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."

    In either case, again, I have no wish to argue this point. The teaching seems clear.

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  12. debs

    debs Member

    133
    +0
    Romans 8: "For I am convinced that neither DEATH nor life, neither angels nor demons,[13] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord".
     
  13. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    The entire chapter of Romans 8 is about Christian perserverance. Paul is not writing to people thinking about killing themselves, but people who are being killed by others. He is saying not to end their lives, but to consider "present sufferings...not worth comparing" to the "glory that will be revealed." He is calling on us to endure because the "Spirit helps us in our weakness." To quote this section as a justification for Christianized suicide is to call what is evil, "good."

    If Romans 8 were meant to imply what it has been indicated that it does, we should teach that Christians oughtto commit suicide because it is better to die "and be with Christ" (Phil 1:23). We should all kill ourselves and escape the torment of this world. It's the only rational "Christian" thing to do.

    No! Such is not God's will.

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  14. debs

    debs Member

    133
    +0
    Ok Otheniel, but youre not addressing the original question asked. Which was NOT :
    "is it it OK to kill yourself?"
    The question was basically "if a Christian commits suicide do they still go to heaven?" And I am saying that they will. IM NOT condoning suicide (as you have suggested that I am), but only viewing this from Gods point of view, knowing his word, and but much more: KNOWING HIM!
     
  15. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

    917
    +1
    Christian
    Private
    First point: I think that anyone who says precisely that God would damn another... has placed themselves far above his position as mere human.

    No one may sit in the judgement seat of God!

    Second point: I think that the way we live is far more important than how we die.
    I would never be condemning of another... but especially a Christian overwhelmed by heartache or grief. I believe that God understands that we are human. You do not have to be perfect to enter his Kingdom. You just must align yourself with the one who is. I would trust in Jesus to understand what man can not.

    Please forgive me if you find this post offensive. I spent last night watching the Catholic abomination of our children on television. My patience is running thin from listening to hypocrites.

    :( LOVE
     
  16. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    I still find it strange how quoting the Bible can be called judging...I judge no one. But if I do not speak the Truth, I will surely be judged.

    I understand that most people on this forum are trying to make the point that they believe God would allow a Chritian to kill themself and then save them. That is definitely the politically correct answer (many also say that those who "never hear" the message are saved by reason of not ever getting a "fair chance" but this is not Biblically sound.) Yet, my point is not that God would not save a soul who called on Him. My point is that a True Christian would not kill themself. Scripture makes that clear. In saying this I judge no one, nor do I condemn all who have committed suicide. Rather, I weep for any that have, and pray for those considering it to find the hope in God and life in the Spirit which will not grieve itself in such a way.

    Of course God understands us. But salvation is by grace, and if we reject his salvation, no sacrifice for sins is left.

    In either case, it would seem that the points have been made for both sides of the issue, and we are in danger of falling into argument.

    I don't know what the Catholic abomination of children is...nor why its on tv...but I can definitely empathize with the putrescence of hypocrasy in the modern church. It goes far beyond cermony and pomp, and infects the lifestyles and doctrines of many. We have rejected the Word of God as authoritative (unless taken out of context...then it rules over all, even other verses!), and presumed that our feelings and opinions can hold sway in our faith. Such is placing salvation in our own hands...surely a foolish thing to do.

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  17. GraftMeIn

    GraftMeIn The Masters Gardener

    +4
    I hope it's ok if I post here, I feel I may have a few words to add.

    KBeeks, I think I understand what you are trying to ask. I feel that suicide itself is an act of despair, I think people do this when they feel there is no hope, or they feel that not even God can see them through their troubles, and pain. To me it shows a lack of faith in God, But I can't say for sure that someone who does this will go to hell, because we'll never know if in those few last minutes they called out to God.

    As for commiting suicide because ordered to by others, so that others might live.

    Wouldn't a Mother face a pack of wolves and sacrifice her own life in order to save the lives of her children?

    Wouldn't a Father dive into shark infested waters in order to save the life of his son?

    Didn't God send Jesus to die, so that we might be saved?

    I feel God would see this as a rightous act, But I also feel where you end up, be it heaven or hell, will be determined by how you lived your life on earth, and if you had faith in God. In the same note, I don't feel that commiting suicide, in order to kill others is right at all.
     
  18. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    Excellent post.

    Peace to all who seek it,
    <><
     
  19. 12volt_man

    12volt_man Well-Known Member

    +245
    Christian
    Nobody goes to Heaven or Hell because of how they die. Whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell depends on our spiritual state when we die, how ever that death may come.

    Outside of Christ, each of us are lost and on our way to Hell because we are seperated from God by our sins.

    If we are in Christ, then we are reconciled to God. If we're not in Christ, then we're condemned by our sins.

    If a saved person commits suicide, he's still saved. Period.
     
  20. Avaya

    Avaya Veteran

    +129
    Christian
    Married
    Wrong? Yes, absolutely.

    Will it make you go to hell? NO WAY. The only sin that sends one to hell is the sin of unbelief. If you are a Christian and get to a desperate low that you feel suicide is the only way out, it's a sin that you cannot confess, therefore you will stand before God with that sin in your life. To be honest though, many Christians commit sins that they don't confess - either because they don't realize they sinned, or because the forget. This is why it is SO important to have a regular and active prayer life.
     
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