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I had a thought of unbelief maybe in my heart

Job405

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I was talking in the phone with a Christian friend and he asked something like if I believe Jesus died for my sins. Then the demon that's tormenting me said "I don't believe", then I felt some feeling in my body and suddenly the demon had more control over me.

I do still logically believe Jesus died for my sins, but has my heart stopped believing that? Have I lost my faith?

Because I was out for a walk today listening to the audio Bible the gospel of Matthew, this used to be comforting for me but now all the damning verses kept popping out at me.

I'm really worried that my heart has apostasized or something, after reading this post in particular, I didn't even know something like that could happen.
 

Tolworth John

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I'm really worried that my heart has apostasized

Do you believe what Jesus said in John chapter 10 verses 28-30 where he says, no one can snatch those the Father has given me out of my hand.

It is Jesus who saved you.

It is Jesus who keeps you saved.

And in 1 john1:9 it is Jesus who continually forgives you.

Again you need to read on line the 25 tips for successfully testing off, especially the bit about not listening, talking, arguing or shouting out intrusive thoughts and learn to just say " yep you're right" and carry on not thinking or talking etc etc to that intrusive thought.
 
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Bobber

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I was talking in the phone with a Christian friend and he asked something like if I believe Jesus died for my sins. Then the demon that's tormenting me said "I don't believe",

So why do you want to listen to a liar? You have a right to tell him what you believe. You've done so so move on. By the way you might want to read him other things you believe too that he the devil will go to a devil's hell. I'm sure he might tell you he doesn't believe it but too bad....doesn't matter what he believes! The only thing that matter is what THE BIBLE SAYS.

You have choice over what you believe and the Apostle Paul tells us any thought which goes contrary to what God says YOU CAN DO we are to cast it down and replace it with God's thought. 2 Cor 10:5 Just say I believe God's word and that's the way it is and that's the way it's going to be devil! FOREVER!
 
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Ietermagog

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You haven't lost your faith. Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit is giving you chances to strengthen your faith.

I am also having a lot of trouble with these thoughts at the moment. Where it feels like there's something constantly trying to tear the scripture apart inside me, while there's also something that's fighting against the voices saying that the scripture and faith will set me free from the fears and pain.
Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit is giving you the chances to try and erase your doubt.

That also happened to me a a lot when I felt like I'm worn out to breaking point. It's like I just want to shut off the feeling to numb myself from the pain. You're maybe just worn out. What I do when I feel like that is I pray and ask for Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit to carry me through when I feel like I can not walk anymore.

Also I had a problem where I struggled to pray to God, as I did not know His name. So I was scared my prayers might not reach Him if I don't say certain things during prayer. But the scripture below recently brought a lot of calmness over me, as I realised I can just go to Jesus and pray and my prayers will reach God. The more I focus on Jesus, the more bearable the things I struggle with becomes, because God appointed Jesus as our Lord. The one with whom we are born again to live in God's Kingdom.

Revelation 1:5-6 ESV
And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Romans 14:17 ESV
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:1-58 ESV
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. ...

1 Corinthians 6:11 ESV
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 1:1-32 ESV
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, ...

Acts 1:3 ESV
He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.

John 18:37 ESV
Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”

John 3:13 ESV
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:2 ESV
This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.”

Luke 11:20 ESV
But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Luke 1:31-33 ESV
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

Mark 10:45 ESV
For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Psalm 103:19 ESV
The Lord has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.

Revelation 21:1-4 ESV
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Revelation 20:4 ESV
Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Revelation 19:11-14 ESV
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.

Revelation 12:10 ESV
And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

Revelation 5:9-10 ESV
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”

1 John 2:1-29 ESV
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: ...

2 Peter 1:11 ESV
For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 4:16 ESV
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.

1 Peter 2:1-25 ESV
So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...

James 4:10 ESV
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

Matthew 11:27
All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

John 7:29
I know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”

John 8:55
and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.

John 10:15
even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

John 17:25
“O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me;

I want to share some of my experiences and some words in the hopes of it making you find strength, because I feel like we might have the same test of faith and that there is hope.

I experienced the same thing recently with belief. It felt strange in me, because I said in myself that I know Jesus died for my sins to forgive my sins, that He conquered Hell, and send out the Holy Spirit to descend upon us, but it felt strange. It felt like I knew the truth and I felt confusion in a sense. I don't know how to describe it. I just remember saying inside myself I know Jesus was crucified for humanity's sins, as well as mine. I believed it, I still do, so why doesn't my mind or heart want to accept it or comprehend it. Or I already accepted it and I knew it, but something was trying to numb the feelings inside me. Something odd I noticed it didn't so much feel like I didn't accept it, it felt like I did, but like there's something trying real hard to pull the wool over my eyes and trying to mind boggle me while I feel like I'm trying to push my head through a sheet of plastic (in a manner of speaking). Or like you are right below the waterline and you can see the sky, but you just can't push your head above the water. Like you know the truth and you're so close you can touch it, but something else is trying to pull you down, because it doesn't want you to see it anymore (to feel it).

I just remember saying over and over in me I know the truth and that the evil are just trying to pull the wool over my eyes, because it doesn't want me to realise I'm saved. I remember thinking it feels like someone trying to keep your eyes closed with their hands while standing behind you, every time you lift up their hands from your eyes they just immediately put their hands on your eyes again the moment you let go. Felt so strange that I realised it's something else also trying real hard to make me not see the truth. That I'm already saved and Jesus was sent to forgive me of my sins. That God placed Jesus above all in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. So that every knee shall bow.

Below are some more things I went through and realised:

I thought a few years ago that I was on the right path and becoming a better Christian, I was wrong. I realised what I knew about Jesus became vague in my mind and I also didn't know what the Holy Spirit was anymore. I also let hate and sin slowly take over without me realising. So I told God this, that I had doubts or things I'm unsure of, but I want to see the truth. I also remember saying I want God to show me my sins and to help me, because I want to love God with my entire heart, soul, and mind.
To break me and build me up again.
A lot of these words played through my mind when things got really bad, and also the words that just keeps saying: just hold on.

I think it was after that that things got so bad. I later felt like I was in fear of everything and anything. I fought in myself against thoughts that want me to let the evil in, when I don't want to.
Some fears made me feel like there was a hole melting in my chest from anxiety and fighting against the thoughts day after day.
It felt like everything wanted to test my faith. Like everything that filled me with fear wants me to accept that Jesus is more powerful than it.
I also realised that the path out is just true faith. To trust and believe and put my entire heart, soul, mind, body, and life in the hands of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit.
It was like it was a sign hanging in front of me with every one of these tests, just to accept the Trinity is the Almighty God, to realise the meaning of these words.
The more I kept doubting the more I kept causing myself pain.
I realised I only had one way out. I refused to throw my faith away, so my only salvation (so to speak) was to accept salvation. To accept the power Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit holds over all, as the Almighty God.
I also started seeing more and more of my sins and started hating myself, because it started seeping in the kinds of sins I did and it felt like I was way over the line.
I also started realising I was living for myself and not for God. I was praying wrong, selfishly and hatefully. I later realised some of the prayers was like committing extortion and trying to justify sin. Which is why I hated myself so much, because it's when it seeps in the gravity of what I have done.
Who was I to speak to God that way and try to fool myself by justifying sin and try to make God a liar?
I just kept getting hit by all my sins I've done one after the other.
Also things that felt like tests of the heart.

One thing I also realised is that I actually had this feeling and fear like my soul was taken from me for a long time in my life. Like past mistakes had Satan get a grip on my soul. When I started to believe more and more that I'm saved and slowly realising it and trying to get rid of a sin that always felt like it was a wedge between me and God the Almighty. Like when I started feeling like my soul is free and in the hands of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit, the intrusive thoughts started happening trying to break me and my relationship I wanted to have with Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit. It reached points where I didn't want to pray anymore out of fear of the intrusive thoughts and it angered me. As I didn't want the intrusive thoughts and it's like something's trying to drive a wedge between me and my faith in the Trinity and the belief that I'm saved.

I felt several times like I was forsaken, but realised that God gave me what I asked, and I'm still fighting.
During this time I kept remember bits and pieces of all the prayers i said. Which is strange as I forget a lot of them. Parts of prayers like when I asked to break me down and build me up again and that I felt time was short so I wanted it to happen as quickly as possible. Also that I wanted to fight against the sins of the flesh and I needed God's help. Also that I wanted to love God, with my entire heart, soul, and mind.
I remember saying in a prayer to God, that I was so full of hate that I couldn't feel my heart beat anymore. That I had hate towards people that's sowing violence and murder in my country, but also against people that did nothing against me, because of the past and current events and I looked up to the wrong kinds of idols. People who used violence and death to bring change instead of love and peace.
Know I'm going through ups and downs and I feel sorrow for the way my heart was and learning to forgive everyone. As if you want to be forgiven of anything, you must forgive anyone of anything.

I turned more and more to scripture, this forum, and went to speak with a cleric.
I started reading the scripture with new eyes through the new testament. As I was desperately seeking truth, kind words, and just something to say I'm free of this pain.
The more and more I read the more and more I realised I already found what I sought, I just had to believe and the pain will go away.
My pain was my doubt.

I felt so alone and like I so desperately needed someone to help me with faith that's close by that I asked my mother if she wants to do Bible study and pray again together, like when I was a kid. As I felt like I really needed someone to help me with my faith and I spoke to her about these things. My mother later told me that she could see the change in me and that she's really thankful about it as it was also a time when she's going through really tough times and it also started helping her with her faith and get through problems she faces at work and her sadness over my grandfather that died not so long ago.

The Bible speaks the truth and Jesus is the one in front of which every knee in heaven, on earth, and below the earth must bow. Satan and the evil things tries real hard to make us forget this. As Satan must bow the knee before Jesus.

John 14:26 ESV
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.


Philippians 2:9 - 2:11
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



The last thing I want to say is I remember I also asked God to help me become stronger in faith. In hind sight I remember this prayer and realised that God is giving me the chances and tests to solidify my faith. As the only why to get my pain and fear away is to truly believe the scripture, which is God's word, and when my faith becomes weak I ask Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit to carry me through when I feel like I can't walk anymore.
After that I feel like I get a breather, like calmness comes over me to allow me to catch my breath.
 
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Mari17

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I was talking in the phone with a Christian friend and he asked something like if I believe Jesus died for my sins. Then the demon that's tormenting me said "I don't believe", then I felt some feeling in my body and suddenly the demon had more control over me.

I do still logically believe Jesus died for my sins, but has my heart stopped believing that? Have I lost my faith?

Because I was out for a walk today listening to the audio Bible the gospel of Matthew, this used to be comforting for me but now all the damning verses kept popping out at me.

I'm really worried that my heart has apostasized or something, after reading this post in particular, I didn't even know something like that could happen.
OCD is very sneaky at making us think that we want something that we don't. I think it's because those of us with OCD often have extra creative and analytical minds. It makes it all too easy for us to way over-analyze our thoughts and feelings, and to "happen" to think exactly what we know we don't want to think. (Dr. Phillipson calls this "creative association"). Living with Intrusive Thoughts | Made of Millions Foundation

Getting out of this over-analytical mode requires practice. The practice comes in the form of ignoring the intrusive thoughts, instead of reacting to them. The more nonchalantly we can treat them, the better. Ignoring them does NOT mean that we're accepting them; it's just training our brains to do what "normal" people's brains do automatically, which is sub-consciously filter out and ignore weird or disturbing thoughts.
 
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