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I fight hard for my Faith

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by longhair75, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. longhair75

    longhair75 Finally back Home Supporter

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    Sometimes, I lose the fight. I was away from the Church for many years, and my road back was fraught with the pain of being completely honest with myself throughout a complete self examination. Facing oneself on that level is very difficult, but liberating.

    All of that being said, I am appalled by the discussion of my fellow Catholics and the condemnation of our Pontiff and Vicar of Christ, his Holiness Pope Francis.
     
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  2. Michie

    Michie Perch Perkins. Catholic reporter. ;) Supporter

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    I understand doubts and questions. We are allowed to question but I have noticed there are times that the discussion crosses a line. We all fight hard and struggle for our faith.
     
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  3. Fenwick

    Fenwick I literally don't care

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    I'm with you. I know I'm not a fan by any stretch of Pope Francis' style and pontificate, but he is still the Pope. The same way we may dislike who's serving as President from time to time, the right thing to do is still to speak respectfully of the title and office.

    I'm growing weary of the brinkmanship with the language and behavior in parts of this community re: Pope Francis.
     
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  4. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    I think it is also true that there are some serious, serious theological issues at the very top of Church hierarchy.
     
  5. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Jesus was killed over this issue.
     
  6. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    I don't think the Pontiff is above reproach. We as Catholic Christians have every right to question him when he he fails to lead. H-s leadership on the continual sex abuse issues have been left wanting. What he did to the catholic church in China is appalling.

    I can remember when the initial sex abuse scandals broke in Boston years back. There was was the same outcry "who are you to question cardinal Law'! If we don't question the Pontiff then who will?
     
  7. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    The pope is treated by his critics exponentially better than the critics of Trump treat Trump.

    It is a question of how much allegiance we as Catholics might have to the institutional Church, including the institution of Papal office.

    It is a serious question too. How much is our Catholicism a flag that we fly under together, and how did that turn out even using this particular social media platform as an example?

    It would be an easy answer to say the ‘flag’ is to orthodox teachings. Our solidarity has the gravity of 2000 years of Saints and hard theology pulling us to that norm regardless of where any pope is on the issues of the day. But that is only half an answer for a living faith always oriented to the future. How best to build a city of God in the now, that will be able to recognize the Second Coming? This keeps us looking into the dark of the future with full advantage of everything the world has to offer us to see through that dark. We are in fast times. We survive this world by keeping up with it.
    Looking back, it would have been nice to have a Catholic flag where the company of Catholics would have been a safe space for those who believe in the sanctity of life in this age of convenience and the Pill. When that is seen by all Catholics as the bigger nuclear invention of the twentieth, an attack against human life itself, seeing the apocalyptic dimension of that kind of an issue would make any pope relevant to rally behind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  8. ~Matteus~

    ~Matteus~ Quadriga is the way through Scripture! Supporter

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    I'm guilty of this and I should probably leave OBOB and the church. I'm only dragging people down with me, but it's out of love for the church I'm doing it.
    I know it may sound weird, but it kind of feels as if I'm loving the church to much to leave and I'm loving the doctrines to much to settle fully.

    I dunno, sorry Longhair. I wish things were different :(
     
  9. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Stabat, please hang on. Will pray. The Church is not only the men on top. She is also you, me, Michie, David, and all of us. There are some wonderful Saints to learn from and hang on to right now. Padre Pio, Saint Charbel, Matt Talbot. How did they manage? They followed Christ.

    There are some ecclesial and theological headaches that are simply beyond our capacity to solve. Beyond where God has put us. We don't need to know and sort out everything, friend. We just have to know Christ crucified, humble ourselves, hold on, love each other more, and pray. Do the best we can where we are.
     
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  10. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    His refusal to answer for himself when challenged on McCarrick was inexcusable. Nobody owes Longhair or anybody else any apologies for finding that kind of flippant response from a pope unacceptable.
    "I made a mistake" or "his appointment slipped through the cracks" might have been answer enough. Bureaucratic incompetence is something that we learn to expect from institutions. 'oops, sorry'....But the easiest read on his flipping us off about this issue makes the most probable answer that in a choice between his ecclesiastical friends, and the integrity of young boys, Pope Francis chose the former over the latter.
    There is nothing particularly holy about being unrepentant, especially for a pope.

    We are all sinners, and no doubt sexual sin is a part of the lives of most of us. But the kind of sin that turns children away from God got a special mention from Jesus as being especially repugnant.

    The church does not belong to men like that. We are not obliged to quit it. They are.
     
  11. Beloved2018

    Beloved2018 Raised LCMS; Now A Struggling Catholic Supporter

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    You can love someone and pray for them and yet still recognize when they are in error. He, himself has asked us to intercede to God on his behalf.
     
  12. longhair75

    longhair75 Finally back Home Supporter

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    Sorry I haven't been here to reply. Life has been real busy.

    The problem is not the Head of our Church. The problem in our Church mirrors the problem of society in general. The polarization caused by self the identification of either Conservative or Liberal is tearing us all apart. Even here in OBOB, where we should be joined in fellowship there was a split because OBOB was not Conservative or Liberal enough. There are two other Catholic forums here, and there are a number of our Catholic brothers and sisters to stay away from all three forums.

    Conservatives see our Pontiff as flawed because he does not seem to share their views. The Liberals saw Benedict as flawed because they view the Church differently. The contempt shown for those with whom some disagree is becoming less subtle every day.

    The world is a sad place when one judges everything and every one by the touchstone of their politics.

    I am off to work, but I will return to thios discussion this evening.

    [TT]God bless us, everyone![/TT]
     
  13. Beloved2018

    Beloved2018 Raised LCMS; Now A Struggling Catholic Supporter

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    In my every day experience, politics has entered into the fray because of 'statements' supposedly made by my pope Francis about my president and my conservative policies. So I'm constantly pulled between the two allegiances and it's not a nice place to be.

    The second dilemma I have with my pope (like others before him), is his relationship to Islam.
     
  14. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Matthew 23:2
    Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, 'The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice.'

    Hello Longhair,
    There was tremendous conflict in Jesus' Church, during His ministry days on earth. To keep His Jewish Church united under conflict, Jesus demanded that His followers do everything that God authorized Church leaders tell them to do, even when God authorized Church are evil. This respect for God's authority in Church leaders, even when God authorized Church leaders are evil, is what keeps us united.

    Matthew 23:23
    "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier things of the law: judgment and mercy and fidelity. (But) these you should have done, without neglecting the others. Blind guides, who strain out the gnat and swallow the camel! "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You cleanse the outside of cup and dish, but inside they are full of plunder and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may be clean. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men's bones and every kind of filth. Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the memorials of the righteous, and you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have joined them in shedding the prophets' blood.' Thus you bear witness against yourselves that you are the children of those who murdered the prophets; now fill up what your ancestors measured out! You serpents, you brood of vipers, how can you flee from the judgment of Gehenna?

    Matthew 12:14
    When the Pharisees were outside they began to plot against him to find a way to destroy him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  15. LivingWordUnity

    LivingWordUnity Unchanging Deposit of Faith, Traditional Catholic

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    "Let it be far from anyone's mind to suppress for any reason any doctrine that has been handed down. Such a policy would tend rather to separate Catholics from the Church than to bring in those who differ." - Pope Leo XIII, Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae

    Francis does not heed that warning.
     
  16. Markie Boy

    Markie Boy Looking East, Moving Slow Supporter

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    Oh man - the post Vatican II clergy should all get that memo.
     
  17. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Please pray for those of us who have no home, too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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