I feel like giving up...

[Nick316]

The fact that you have been thinking a lot about God since you accepted Christ shows that your conversion was probably real. One effect of being a Christian is that there is a strong desire to know God better.

That's good to hear, but I've got a few more questions to ask.

Before I truly came back to Christ (if I was a true believer before) I frequently visited forums. One in particular was populated with mostly atheists, though the forum was based on a game. When in an argument about Islam and something else that I can't remember, one person said I was probably an "ignorant Christian fundamentalist" or something similar. I didn't want them to base their opinions of me off of what I believe, so I told them I was just agnostic mostly and my family was Christian. I look back and it seems like that was a huge mistake for me to make. Would that be something that I can truly be forgiven for?

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

I've heard that the unforgivable sin is permanent and persistent rejection of Christ.

 

[theophilus40]

Before I truly came back to Christ (if I was a true believer before) I frequently visited forums. One in particular was populated with mostly atheists, though the forum was based on a game. When in an argument about Islam and something else that I can't remember, one person said I was probably an "ignorant Christian fundamentalist" or something similar. I didn't want them to base their opinions of me off of what I believe, so I told them I was just agnostic mostly and my family was Christian. I look back and it seems like that was a huge mistake for me to make.

It was a huge mistake but you aren't the first one to make that kind of a mistake. Even Peter denied that he knew Jesus.

Matthew 26:69-75 - ESVBible.org

Mark 14:66-72 - ESVBible.org

Luke 22:54-62 - ESVBible.org

John 18:15-18 - ESVBible.org

Would that be something that I can truly be forgiven for?

Peter was forgiven and restored to a position of leadership among the disciples.

John 21:15-19 - ESVBible.org

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

I've heard that the unforgivable sin is permanent and persistent rejection of Christ.

That might be true but your rejection wasn't permanent or persistent. You have accepted him.

Besides, you said you aren't sure whether or not you were saved when you said this. If you weren't saved then you weren't sinning when you denied being a Christian; you were simply telling the truth.

 

[Nick316]

It was a huge mistake but you aren't the first one to make that kind of a mistake. Even Peter denied that he knew Jesus.

Matthew 26:69-75 - ESVBible.org

Mark 14:66-72 - ESVBible.org

Luke 22:54-62 - ESVBible.org

John 18:15-18 - ESVBible.org

Peter was forgiven and restored to a position of leadership among the disciples.

John 21:15-19 - ESVBible.org

That might be true but your rejection wasn't permanent or persistent. You have accepted him.

Besides, you said you aren't sure whether or not you were saved when you said this. If you weren't saved then you weren't sinning when you denied being a Christian; you were simply telling the truth.

That's a good point about Peter. I did a little more research into this and came across two articles

70 myths of losing salvation (67): If we deny Jesus, he will deny us. Part 1 | His Grace Is Enough

What did Jesus mean by “if you deny me, i will deny you before my Father. Myth 67 part 2 | His Grace Is Enough

For years I have been told that if you (as a Christian) deny Jesus in public Jesus will deny us before His Father. As such when I watched shows about people who are left behind after the rapture, there could always been a possibility when people point a gun at your head and ask you to deny Jesus. “What do I say?” “What should I do?” I thought if I deny Jesus I would end in hell. So I thought why not bite the bullet. But here is an interesting scenario, what happens if the gun is pointed at my wife’s head? My son’s head? Hmm. Would Jesus understand?

Or have you been in a situation when you are still a minor leaving in Asia? In Asia the child’s faith is really up to the parents. I remember the day I came home after receiving Jesus. When my dad found out, I was almost disowned. So could you imagine, when I had to get baptized. I remember those days my Sunday school students were frighten to let their parents know they believed Jesus. So I am sure when some are asked, they deny Jesus. So would they go to hell?

Have you also been in a situation wherein you were lost in the wilderness? When you had disappointments with God? When you didn’t mean what you said or were not aware of what Jesus really taught? I mean only until the last 3 years, I realized what the Gospel really meant. For years I thought Christianity was obeying the 10 commandments! I lived (emphasis livED) under condemnation! I too wondered by sinning if I had ever denied him. So there is this fear of finally reaching heaven and hearing him say “I never knew you”.

................

So who does the Father ask before He judges a person to determine who is righteous? Who gives righteousness? Its Jesus. When your righteousness is base on the law, you say I don’t need Jesus. That’s how you deny Jesus. That is also how Jesus denies you.

 

[Terry M]

Hi Nick316.

Lot's of stuff comes into our minds all the time. God is a loving and forgiving and patient Father. That's why he sent us Jesus. Recognise the thoughts that are constructive and loving and that you know are good for you. Give these 'air time' - ponder them - follow them and thank God for them. As best you can be immersed in His love. Also, spend time in situations where you suspect you have sensed God. This might be remembering a situation - or spending time in nature - or looking at a starry sky.

Satan hates this and tries to discourage us and distract us, but don't give these other negative thoughts 'air time'.

It's not what comes into our heads that makes us good or bad - it's what we do with the thoughts. Jesus was tempted. He had thoughts come to Him that were really attractive - but bad. That's all temptation is. So in this you are just like Jesus. He knows our struggles and will help you.

And lastly. Talk to someome who will listen and pray with you. Keep writing here if you need to, but finding a prayerful pastor or friend will be a great help. God bless you and protect you and give you strength. Terry M

 

[Nick316]

Hi Nick316.

Lot's of stuff comes into our minds all the time. God is a loving and forgiving and patient Father. That's why he sent us Jesus. Recognise the thoughts that are constructive and loving and that you know are good for you. Give these 'air time' - ponder them - follow them and thank God for them. As best you can be immersed in His love. Also, spend time in situations where you suspect you have sensed God. This might be remembering a situation - or spending time in nature - or looking at a starry sky.

Satan hates this and tries to discourage us and distract us, but don't give these other negative thoughts 'air time'.

It's not what comes into our heads that makes us good or bad - it's what we do with the thoughts. Jesus was tempted. He had thoughts come to Him that were really attractive - but bad. That's all temptation is. So in this you are just like Jesus. He knows our struggles and will help you.

And lastly. Talk to someome who will listen and pray with you. Keep writing here if you need to, but finding a prayerful pastor or friend will be a great help. God bless you and protect you and give you strength. Terry M

Thank you! I've mostly got over my doubts, but the blasphemies still come through sometimes. I try to intercept them and stop them before they fully formulate. I've sought out tips on how to stop thinking all day. From the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep, I am always thinking about something to do with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and religious things in general (after looking into the nasty history and truth about Islam, it is clear to me that mohammed was the very kind of person Jesus warned about. mohammed was a wolf in sheep's clothing, a false prophet.) I've done research on Islam and the religion of evolution. It is so sad to see that billions of people are deceived by mohammed. I decided to learn about Islam after a Muslim came to speak to us and tried to say that Islam was a religion of peace. I didn't fall for it, and I never will.

 

[sdowney717]

Thank you! I've mostly got over my doubts, but the blasphemies still come through sometimes. I try to intercept them and stop them before they fully formulate. I've sought out tips on how to stop thinking all day. From the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep, I am always thinking about something to do with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and religious things in general (after looking into the nasty history and truth about Islam, it is clear to me that mohammed was the very kind of person Jesus warned about. mohammed was a wolf in sheep's clothing, a false prophet.) I've done research on Islam and the religion of evolution. It is so sad to see that billions of people are deceived by mohammed. I decided to learn about Islam after a Muslim came to speak to us and tried to say that Islam was a religion of peace. I didn't fall for it, and I never will.

Thinking of what you wrote the curses, a long time ago, I used to hear them in my head. What I finally learned, it was not from me, it was Satan, to my great relief. Somehow both God and Satan can get into the thought process in our head. When you become a new creation in Christ Jesus, your spirit is renewed and transformed and made alive in Christ. Everything has become new for you and God is your Father. We though still are living in an evil fallen world and it is still possible to hear devil's speak. I don't anymore generally.

Satan is a little horn speaking great words, which are prideful blasphemies straight to God's face even as Satan is thrown into the fire. So you're not the only one who gets to hear them.

Notice in v9-11, Satan just will not shut up! Even when the Ancient of Days appears and sits down in judgement.

Long but real good!
Dan 7

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

28 Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

 

[Nick316]

It was a huge mistake but you aren't the first one to make that kind of a mistake. Even Peter denied that he knew Jesus.

Matthew 26:69-75 - ESVBible.org

Mark 14:66-72 - ESVBible.org

Luke 22:54-62 - ESVBible.org

John 18:15-18 - ESVBible.org

Peter was forgiven and restored to a position of leadership among the disciples.

John 21:15-19 - ESVBible.org

That might be true but your rejection wasn't permanent or persistent. You have accepted him.

Besides, you said you aren't sure whether or not you were saved when you said this. If you weren't saved then you weren't sinning when you denied being a Christian; you were simply telling the truth.

But is it really the same for Peter? He had actually met Jesus in person. I'm terrified of the thought of dying and meeting Christ only to be denied and thrown to hell...would God really do that?

If I was truly saved before I did that, could that mean that my salvation is permanently lost?

I mean, there are verses like these:

Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,

“Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.”[a]

but if was truly saved (I don't know if I was....I prayed rarely, didn't read the Bible though....) does that verse contradict what Jesus said about denying Him? The Scriptures can't contradict, can they?

(after I edited the post, my baptist icon disappeared, along with the gender icon, to make it worse)

 

[Terry M]

Hi Nick316. I noted you said you have sought out tips on how to stop thinking all day, and I think that that was a good thing for you to do. You also seemed to be saying that the tips made a difference. One of the lies satan tells us is that we have to know everything, know about everything, know how everything works, or we are basically not safe. This is a lie - and the same lie he has been telling for eternity.

If you have been having success in turning off your thoughts, then I'd say use more of that to find rest for your mind. Trust that God is in the silence - still with you and helping you even when you are not aware of Him. Enjoy the world He has created for us - especially nature, and friends and fun. My experience is that He loves us more than we can ever imagine. Rely on it. Rely on Him. He loves you.

 

[OntheHorizon]

I hate to double post...but I need to say more....

Why do I feel like I'm lying to myself? After I finished typing that, I started saying "God is real, what am I worrying about" but yet I just went through an entire stage of doubt an hour ago? When my doubts go away for some time, I feel as if I am lying to myself..but when the doubts return, I start even considering them...

It sounds like you do believe in god, but you struggle with making him make sense. You are upset that you can't make him make sense... but you always return to "I know he's real" because you do believe... you just don't know how to make it make sense.

Don't confuse your lack of ability to understand for a lack of belief, those aren't the same thing.

 

[OntheHorizon]

If you take your inability to make sense of god and walk away from Christianity when deep down you believe in him you'll only find torment because deep down you do actually believe and will never be at peace away from him.

 

[AWorkInProgress]

Let me make this clear: I'm not suicidal.

I made the choice to become a Christian again on easter this year, but ever since then my mind has been riddled with doubts, blasphemies, and struggles. I am mostly over the issue with blasphemy, but now the doubts just kick in.

I've seen a lot of things in the past few days that have completely challenged my beliefs. They've made me wonder if the Bible is just a collection of myths borrowed from other cultures and religions, made me doubt my faith in God as a whole. But what I don't understand is why I keep thinking about God and Jesus. Everyday that I wake up, my thoughts are the same as they were the day before. My mind is never at rest, it seems, and most of the day my thoughts are screaming the same thing over and over. Not always negative things, but positive things too...I would much rather my mind be cleared of all kinds of these thoughts and let me be at peace.

Earlier today I was pretty firm in my beliefs, but just a few minutes ago I started wondering if the universe even needed God. I mean, I've heard from some atheists that the Big Bang could easily occur without a Creator, and that abiogenesis is how life got here. Their arguments seem pretty sound and logical, so I start to wonder why should I still hold on? If I fall away from my faith, can I still come back? One minute I'm a firm Christian, the next I'm wondering if it is even a logical choice.

I've looked through some apologetics sites, read some articles by William Lane Craig, and seen youtube debates, but I just can't come to a stop. I feel like I'll fall too far and just stop believing in God all together. And on top of that, I still am struggling to free my mind of these doubtful, blasphemous restraints.

Any replies or offers of advice are greatly appreciated..

hmm... I don't think there is anything wrong with God or the bible. I believe that how your mind filled with doubts is your true problem. Now don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with getting to the heart of the matter, but there is something wrong when you are all over the place.

James 1:5-8 NKJV
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

Asking questions is always a good thing. Be sincere with Jesus, he won't get all offended for asking anything that is your heart. Glenn Beck used a quote that's been my guide post on this subject.

If there be a God, he rather have honest questioning than blind folded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson

Now I learned that God doesn't complicate things, we do. Usually his answer is simple, but we don't want to believe or scared to believe in his answer. If you are saved, he will answer you.

Now about your thoughts being out of control. You noticed there are negative thoughts and positive ones. There is a war going on inside of you right now, and by the name of this post, doubt is winning.

Galatians 5:16-18 NLT
So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.

The Holy Spirit lives in your heart. He can only speak what he hears, so the voice in your heart is God speaking to you directly. He is a still small voice, which sounds the COMPLETE opposite of your doubting thoughts.

1 Kings 19:11-12 NLT
“Go out and stand before me on the mountain,” the Lord told him.

And as Elijah stood there, the Lord passed by, and a mighty windstorm hit the mountain. It was such a terrible blast that the rocks were torn loose, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 And after the earthquake there was a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire there was the sound of a gentle whisper.

Learn to listen to that voice. Because words can bring life or death on us. My doubts were killing me from the inside out. I struggled with suicidal depression and constant depression before I came to Christ. Those doubts and lies spoke over my life crippled my soul for many years.

I learned all this, and one night after I self hated myself to pieces, a different voice arised from within. My own words ripped me apart, Gods words was pulling me back together. First time in my life I received encouragement, and out of all the places it came from still small voice within. That voice has brought life into my soul again, and guided me out of many bad situations and problems. Today that same voice speaks through me to encourage and uplift others, as it did for me.

Nike you are a bright and intelligent young man. I know you have fears and worries in your heart, but if you dare to listen and believe that voice, your life will never be the same. God didn't make your life about being constantly in battle with self, but with the enemy. Please pray and mediate on all I shared with you.

 

[theophilus40]

But is it really the same for Peter? He had actually met Jesus in person.

It isn't actually the same for Peter. Since he had met Jesus in person his sin was worse that yours. When judging our sins God takes into account how much we know. Someone who knows God's will and sins will be judged more severely than someone who commits the same sin but doesn't know as much about what God wants.

And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.
(Luke 12:47-48 ESV)
​

Also, you can't lose your salvation. When you are saved all of your sins are forgiven, even those that you haven't committed yet. God saves you because of his grace and not because of anything you do, and he keeps you saved the same way.

I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
(Philippians 1:6 ESV)
​

Perhaps this will help you understand what is involved in salvation and why there is no danger that you will lose it:

Salvation from God’s point of view | clydeherrin

 

[Reborn1977]

First let me make clear faith will never be a logical choice because it is faith – by its very nature it is not logical because it requires belief in what we cannot see or prove.

What you are describing is quite common among true Believers though not often talked about because people’s struggle with doubt just after committing or recommitting to Christ seem shameful to them. That shame along with the attack of doubt itself comes from Satan and is meant to torment the person into renouncing Christ. It is a battle that can and will be won by you and has been won by many before you. Typically, it does go on for some time but once conquered I have rarely heard of a Believer struggling with again.

The Bible is not a collection of myths borrowed from other cultures or religions – though written down later the contents of the Bible, specifically Judaism and Christianity are the original – its content is the original – others appear older but are not older.

This response comes from someone who has been in Fulltime Christian Ministry for 20 years and I long to help those who have misguided or misdirected by ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’.