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Featured I don't understand this Bible contradiction

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Robrain, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Robrain

    Robrain New Member

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    This particular part has been unsettling for me.

    Jesus says, "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?" Matthew 26:53.

    He also says, ""My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place." John 18:36

    This bothers me because in the first one it seems like he is there to be crucified willingly to fulfill the prophesy.

    The second one seems to indicate that He is there against his will and would prevent it if it were possible.

    I don't get it.
     
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  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    They are really saying much the same thing: that He is of a higher world than this mortal world. In John 18 as you quote, He is telling the truth to Pilate. It does help to have all the conversation, to help make it more clear:

    33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

    34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

    35 “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

    36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

    37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.

    Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

    38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. 39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
     
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  3. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are reading more into it than is there. All that Lord Jesus is saying is that He could escape the cross if He wished. He could call on 60,000 angels to deliver Him. He could also have asked His followers (many more than the 11 apostles) to fight for Him and prevent His arrest. He chose neither path.

    In His humanity, Lord Jesus plainly did not want the shameful death of the cross. However, He chose God's will in spite of every part of His being revolting at the idea. It's a sobering example for Christians. We will face our own "Gethsemane" dilemma at some time. How we need God's grace!
     
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  4. Rene Loup

    Rene Loup Saved Wolf Among Sheep

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    ~Luke 22:39-44 (NKJV)

    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 22:39-44 - King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 22:39-44 - New King James Version
    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 22:39-44 - New International Version
    Bible Gateway passage: Luke 22:39-44 - International Children’s Bible

    Judging by Luke's side of the story, Jesus Christ DIDN'T WANT to do this, but knew He NEEDED to.

    Someone once explained to me this forensics procedure: When investigating a crime and asking a group of witnesses about what happened, it is inevitable that there will be variations with their stories. We all think, remember, and perceive things differently. However, if the group of witness's testimonies are 100% consistent with each other's, then something is up and these witnesses become suspects.

    I hope this helps. God bless!
     
  5. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The second one doesn't indicate that Jesus would prevent his own arrest if possible. Rather, he said that if his kingdom were of this world, his servants would fight to prevent his arrest by the Jewish leaders. As it stood, he had eleven disciples at the time of his arrest, three with swords, and one who attempted to use his in anger. Not much of a kingdom by Earthly standards. Furthermore, he was trying explain to Pilate who he was, and who he was not. Pilate was looking at this from a different perspective than Jesus' disciples were, and Jesus understood this. He told the truth both times.
     
  6. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    The second one isn't saying he's there against his will. He's saying his kingdom functions differently than the kingdoms of this world.

    The kingdoms of this world compel obedience by force, violence. Jesus says if his kingdom was of this world his servants would be fighting, i.e. engaging in violence to overcome those trying to kill him. But his kingdom is not of this world, i.e. it operates by a completely different set of principles.

    The kingdoms of this world compel obedience by force. The kingdom of God compels obedience through self giving love. God shows that in creating us. Christ shows that through the cross. He overcomes destruction and death with life through his love. He could have destroyed everything with the breath of his mouth. But, like a judo wrestler, he takes the destructive force of evil and brings good out of it. Why did he do that? Because he loves us.

    So, he's still willingly going to the cross in the second passage.
     
  7. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    In the first verse, Jesus is talking about angelic servants - in the second verse, Jesus is talking about human servants.
     
  8. Religiot

    Religiot Well-Known Member

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    There is no contradiction.

    He did not want to die, but did so in obedience to His Father.

    His Kingdom is not of this world, otherwise there would've been war.

    When He comes again, there will be war, because He will be coming to subjugate this world to the will of His Father, by force.
     
  9. Robrain

    Robrain New Member

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    Thanks all! I totally read that out of context.
     
  10. Jaxxi

    Jaxxi Saint- in training

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    I think He is saying if He was in His native Homeland, which is in heaven, and Satan were to try to arrest Him, His angels would fight to not allow this being they are made of the same types of bodies and could fight fairly. Being that His angels are from heaven, with different jurisdiction, satan is still an angel and it is men he is using to do his bidding and if angels were to show up well, we cannot see them anyways as I think it is a special assignment or manifestation that takes place. If angels show up around us in their natural form we cannot see them. There are a few instances in the Bible where angels are seen like humans but it is very rare. If it were a common occurence, we would hear and see angels coming and going all the time but this is not the case. Also, as far as physical and spiritual law goes, with satan being the " god of this world" or the " prince of this world". I think that something will change in our physical world when satan incarnates to being human. I think we be able to see spirit beings who are on earth at that time, and it will be a horrendous terrifying time for mankind. However by him doing this it will make it possible for Jesus Christ to fight Him as He wants to because now they will have BOTH come in the flesh and it can be settled. I also think that we have a distorted view of God's ability and the afterlife/ spirit world. I do not think God is able to destroy eternal beings once they come into existence. They will always exist somewhere. Whether they are suffering or are with Him, eternal beings are just that. Eternal. We need to think very carefully about that because our lives on earth are just as significant as they are insignificant and are but a milli-second compared to eternity.
     
  11. Robrain

    Robrain New Member

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    What if we do see angels coming and going all the time and we just don't realize it? God delivered messages in several ways: angels, prophets, dreams, signs, visions, etc. Angels also mated with humans and made half-human and half-angels called Nephilim and they roamed the Earth for awhile.

    One time I was out walking my lab and he's usually friendly with everybody. However, there was this one person where he just cowered, stuck it's tail between its legs and hid behind me. I didn't see anything unusual so it was really weird. They say pets can sense things so it made me wonder if demons walk around and we just don't know it.
     
  12. Jaxxi

    Jaxxi Saint- in training

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    We see demons more than we see angels. And I am not suggesting we don't but it would be more widely known if angels came and spoke to us in human form- we would hear about this being more widespread. The Nephilim died when God flooded the earth but He left them earthbound, never to return to the celestial but to wander the earth as " evil spirits" so we encounter these often and they are not demons.
     
  13. Robrain

    Robrain New Member

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    I think you kind of interpreted this the same way that I have.

    I think what people are saying is that Jesus wasn't really implying that he couldn't save himself from crucifixion. It was moreso that He was revealing that He is King in Heaven.
     
  14. Jaxxi

    Jaxxi Saint- in training

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    I think what He was saying is that in heaven this has already been done, and that is why satan is where he is now. So Jesus had to come here to save us from him in alien form( since His true nature is not human) and since the problem lie in the human afterlife- that is where the injustice lie because we do not encounter satan in his true form until we die- Jesus had to come here and die in order to face satan on his playing ground. Oh can you imagine how shocked he was? Even though he thought he had Jesus where he wanted him...can I message you with a cool story about that? I don't want to put it on the forum because it is not " Biblical".
     
  15. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison Member

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    In the second one , he is just explaining that this world is not his kingdom because if it was there would be a war and his servants would protect him from being captured. But he don't fight he go willingly. He didn't come to rule this world, because it's not his Kingdom. He came to be a sacrifice so that humans can be saved from this evil world.
     
  16. Jaxxi

    Jaxxi Saint- in training

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    Well I guess He changed His mind then didn't He? " Maybe I WILL go back and rule the world!" Hallelujah!!
     
  17. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Neither of which did He call to prevent His crucifixion, yes.
     
  18. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison Member

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  19. Childofgodharrison

    Childofgodharrison Member

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    *Surely you know that satan is the ruler of this world
     
  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    but Jesus, He is my king.
     
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