I don't know what to title this. Lets call it musing about relating to others?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Coolbutclueless

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
59
46
31
United States
✟26,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Growing up I didn't experience the same things most people did. I grew up in an evangelical household and everything kids my age enjoyed was "of the devil" for the most part. No harry potter, no pokemon, ect. I don't really have a grudge against my parents for this they were doing the best they could. However as I got older I never really learned the social skills needed to connect to other people. By the time I entered highschool I was pretty much friendless and kept my head inside books instead of trying to connect to others. I was full of anger, resentment, and all sorts of other things. In highschool I didn't have the normal "Coming of age" experiences that most people do. I didn't pursued any crushes, I didn't go to any dances, I wasn't involved in any sports or extra-circulars, I didn't have a first kiss (till my 20s),and I never just spent time with people my on age.

In early college I started to realize that the problem probably wasn't everyone else but was me. I put myself out there, failed horribly, but improved and became somewhat social. I learned how to function in social settings, be personable and sociable, and basically just how to function. That said, I had horrible health problems. I lost a LOT of weight and almost starved to death at one point (no exaggeration). During all this I was figuring out my faith. I never had the normal college experiences of "going wild", I never went to a party, I still basically made no friends, but I tried. I was hyper judgmental, I thought that drinking, partying, and honestly most forms of fun that people had were sinful or just boring.

Then my health issues got worse, I dropped out of school and spent 3 years where I couldn't leave my home. I was in deep isolation, in a lot of pain, and at the same time I was seeking God because I needed him. I had accepted that I was probably going to be dead by 30 years old, and all the things that come along with that realization. I found orthodoxy, and eventually converted. In doing so I had great change in my life, my health issues seemed to resolve, and I was able to go back out into the world and live a normal life.

Now, I'm a fun sociable guy most of the time,I have friend I regularly hangout with (both male and female), I had one relationship with a woman (though it started when I was still homebound and before orthodoxy). Therapy has been great, my priest is also great, my church is great, I have an ever growing love for God and when I'm more able will move closer to my parish so I can attend more services. I don't attend services because I feel obligated but because I desire God and know that I can find him there.

Where am I going with this? I'm getting there. I know there is nothing wrong with having a drink (I regularly do), I know there is nothing wrong with dancing (depending on the type lol), I know there is nothing wrong with bar hopping or nightlife (Within reason). But these are experiences which Ive never had. Which brings me to my frustration.

I recently met a woman online and have been getting to know her. She is orthodox and seems to be very serious about it. Honestly she is probably doing better at living the orthodox life than I am. She volunteers and seems to really care about people where as I basically don't serve anyone but myself (I'm trying to change that). As time has gone one (a few months now) Ive grown to have an interest in her. To be honest much more interest than I ever expected I would have. We relate on many things that its actually scary. I have to keep myself from saying "yes that's also something I believe/love/enjoy" so I don't come across as one of those guys who changes who he is because he is interested in someone. That's not happening but it would certainly seem that way from the outside at times because we really do share a lot of views.

However, I can completely not relate to her life experiences. Like recently she was talking about a place she enjoyed visiting and I ask what she liked about it. She mentioned the night life and dancing. Ive been to some concerts, a club like bar thing with a friend or 2, and that's it. That's my entire experience with "night life". I don't know enough about it to even really know what it is. Same in regards to dancing. As a musician I probably would really enjoy dancing but ive only tried once and it felt awkward. Ive never really been able to "let loose" and just have fun. Even my PRIEST has told me I need to learn to let loose (in healthy non-sinful ways obviously).

This isn't just an issue with this woman, its an issue with almost everyone I meet. I have done a fantastic job at learning to socialize, make friends, have good conversations ,ect. But I still feel very alien around others. To be honest I don't have a lot of interest in these things either. Even travel (which Ive enjoyed lately) has a waning interest. Everyone I meet has goals, ambitions, and I really don't have many. Ive let most of my dreams die because the amount of effort required to pursue them is more than I want to put forth. I would much rather stay at home and pursue having a quiet and peaceful life. I'll enjoy my guitar,a good book,video games, my writing songs, and prayers. I don't have a strong desire to go out and make up for lost time by traveling or partying because honestly a lot of it just seems distasteful to me. I wish I could enjoy it but I had no desire to enjoy it. With dating I worry that I'll never find someone, because for example this woman i'm interested in is someone who seems very active and I doubt I could ever keep pace with her, and I don't think I would want to either.

I just want a quiet and peaceful life, as much of one as I can have.

tl;dr My life has been devoid of many normative experiences of other people, I never had a "wild" phase, and I struggle to relate to people and their normal life experiences that are alien to my life.
 

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,556
20,073
41
Earth
✟1,465,414.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
just because she is active doesn't mean anything, aside to say she is active. maybe she can help you keep coming out of your shell from time to time. maybe you can help her slow down and be still from time to time.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Growing up I didn't experience the same things most people did. I grew up in an evangelical household and everything kids my age enjoyed was "of the devil" for the most part. No harry potter, no pokemon, ect. I don't really have a grudge against my parents for this they were doing the best they could. However as I got older I never really learned the social skills needed to connect to other people. By the time I entered highschool I was pretty much friendless and kept my head inside books instead of trying to connect to others. I was full of anger, resentment, and all sorts of other things. In highschool I didn't have the normal "Coming of age" experiences that most people do. I didn't pursued any crushes, I didn't go to any dances, I wasn't involved in any sports or extra-circulars, I didn't have a first kiss (till my 20s),and I never just spent time with people my on age.

In early college I started to realize that the problem probably wasn't everyone else but was me. I put myself out there, failed horribly, but improved and became somewhat social. I learned how to function in social settings, be personable and sociable, and basically just how to function. That said, I had horrible health problems. I lost a LOT of weight and almost starved to death at one point (no exaggeration). During all this I was figuring out my faith. I never had the normal college experiences of "going wild", I never went to a party, I still basically made no friends, but I tried. I was hyper judgmental, I thought that drinking, partying, and honestly most forms of fun that people had were sinful or just boring.

Then my health issues got worse, I dropped out of school and spent 3 years where I couldn't leave my home. I was in deep isolation, in a lot of pain, and at the same time I was seeking God because I needed him. I had accepted that I was probably going to be dead by 30 years old, and all the things that come along with that realization. I found orthodoxy, and eventually converted. In doing so I had great change in my life, my health issues seemed to resolve, and I was able to go back out into the world and live a normal life.

Now, I'm a fun sociable guy most of the time,I have friend I regularly hangout with (both male and female), I had one relationship with a woman (though it started when I was still homebound and before orthodoxy). Therapy has been great, my priest is also great, my church is great, I have an ever growing love for God and when I'm more able will move closer to my parish so I can attend more services. I don't attend services because I feel obligated but because I desire God and know that I can find him there.

Where am I going with this? I'm getting there. I know there is nothing wrong with having a drink (I regularly do), I know there is nothing wrong with dancing (depending on the type lol), I know there is nothing wrong with bar hopping or nightlife (Within reason). But these are experiences which Ive never had. Which brings me to my frustration.

I recently met a woman online and have been getting to know her. She is orthodox and seems to be very serious about it. Honestly she is probably doing better at living the orthodox life than I am. She volunteers and seems to really care about people where as I basically don't serve anyone but myself (I'm trying to change that). As time has gone one (a few months now) Ive grown to have an interest in her. To be honest much more interest than I ever expected I would have. We relate on many things that its actually scary. I have to keep myself from saying "yes that's also something I believe/love/enjoy" so I don't come across as one of those guys who changes who he is because he is interested in someone. That's not happening but it would certainly seem that way from the outside at times because we really do share a lot of views.

However, I can completely not relate to her life experiences. Like recently she was talking about a place she enjoyed visiting and I ask what she liked about it. She mentioned the night life and dancing. Ive been to some concerts, a club like bar thing with a friend or 2, and that's it. That's my entire experience with "night life". I don't know enough about it to even really know what it is. Same in regards to dancing. As a musician I probably would really enjoy dancing but ive only tried once and it felt awkward. Ive never really been able to "let loose" and just have fun. Even my PRIEST has told me I need to learn to let loose (in healthy non-sinful ways obviously).

This isn't just an issue with this woman, its an issue with almost everyone I meet. I have done a fantastic job at learning to socialize, make friends, have good conversations ,ect. But I still feel very alien around others. To be honest I don't have a lot of interest in these things either. Even travel (which Ive enjoyed lately) has a waning interest. Everyone I meet has goals, ambitions, and I really don't have many. Ive let most of my dreams die because the amount of effort required to pursue them is more than I want to put forth. I would much rather stay at home and pursue having a quiet and peaceful life. I'll enjoy my guitar,a good book,video games, my writing songs, and prayers. I don't have a strong desire to go out and make up for lost time by traveling or partying because honestly a lot of it just seems distasteful to me. I wish I could enjoy it but I had no desire to enjoy it. With dating I worry that I'll never find someone, because for example this woman i'm interested in is someone who seems very active and I doubt I could ever keep pace with her, and I don't think I would want to either.

I just want a quiet and peaceful life, as much of one as I can have.

tl;dr My life has been devoid of many normative experiences of other people, I never had a "wild" phase, and I struggle to relate to people and their normal life experiences that are alien to my life.
It's not mainly about "being wild" (I have an Orthodox friend who prefers a more quiet life but has a fiancée) but having a goal and something interesting to do.

Also you need to avoid seeing her as the perfect woman, she is like other girls with virtues and failings so try to avoid putting her in a pedestal.
 
Upvote 0

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,313
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,605.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I don't know in just skimming your long post my basic reaction is wondering if the woman is really right for you. I think you should consider other fish in the sea and maybe look for new ways to open up and meet people. Like take a look at Meetup.com groups in your area and join some based on your favorite hobbies and interests.

Although if this woman is willing to put up with you and all your quirks that is a good sign (based on the advice of the person below).

You might want to check out some videos from this guy. He has a lot of really great things to say about relationships.

Alain de Botton on Love

 
Upvote 0

Coolbutclueless

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
59
46
31
United States
✟26,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I'll post a longer when home but just wanted to clarify I'm not putting this women on a pedestal I'm not even "pursuing" her romantically at this point. We are just talking and i realized im quite interested in getting to know her better. This post primarily isnt about her if your reading it as if she is the focus your reading it wrong.

I honestly don't know where you guys are getting the pedestal thing from cause that's so far from the truth of the situation its laughable. I in no way think she is perfect , not even close.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I'll post a longer when home but just wanted to clarify I'm not putting this women on a pedestal I'm not even "pursuing" her romantically at this point. We are just talking and i realized im quite interested in getting to know her better. This post primarily isnt about her if your reading it as if she is the focus your reading it wrong.

I honestly don't know where you guys are getting the pedestal thing from cause that's so far from the truth of the situation its laughable. I in no way think she is perfect , not even close.
You make it sound like you are being interested romantically.
 
Upvote 0

Coolbutclueless

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
59
46
31
United States
✟26,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
just because she is active doesn't mean anything, aside to say she is active. maybe she can help you keep coming out of your shell from time to time. maybe you can help her slow down and be still from time to time.

It's not mainly about "being wild" (I have an Orthodox friend who prefers a more quiet life but has a fiancée) but having a goal and something interesting to do.

Also you need to avoid seeing her as the perfect woman, she is like other girls with virtues and failings so try to avoid putting her in a pedestal.

Well its 3 separate ideas.

The first is "active". Which to me is all the traveling, going out with friends, conferences, ect. I'm actually fairly "active" in the sense that I probably spend time with friends more evenings than I don't. But its more watching a movie together or playing a board game together than.

The second is "wild". To me that's going clubbing, partying, bar crawling, dancing, ect. Dancing is a weird one it doesn't have to be wild but since there isn't a whole lot of dancing going on without being somewhere with loud music and lots of booze i'm lumping it in with that. I'll even go as far to say that being "wild" isn't sinful in this context. It can be, but its far from necessary. I just don't have any pull towards this. I don't really enjoy this environment or the activities, and "letting loose" in this context doesn't sound fun to me.Honestly I wouldn't even know how to go clubbing or bar crawling or anything like that. I think most people go through a phase where they experience this in some way and I never did. I don't really have the desire to learn how to enjoy this environment either, for good or bad.

The third is "having a goal" or ambition. I have goals but they just aren't your typical ones. I'm not trying to get rich, I'm totally ok having a day job that I don't love and is just a means to an end. I don't want to climb the cooperate ladder. I'm a musician but its for my own pleasure not because I want to go anywhere with it. I enjoy pursuing and learning skills but they don't have to have a reason. My overarching goal is to have an inward peace that comes from knowing God. That's a lofty enough goal that I can pursue my whole life and probably never obtain, but its the only one that seems to worth really focusing on. I have minor goals (Like the desire to eventually marry and have children) but only within the context of pursuing God. That sounds super spiritual, trust me its not and if you knew me or we had this conversation through something other than a forum it wouldn't come across that way.

I don't know in just skimming your long post my basic reaction is wondering if the woman is really right for you. I think you should consider other fish in the sea and maybe look for new ways to open up and meet people. Like take a look at Meetup.com groups in your area and join some based on your favorite hobbies and interests.

Although if this woman is willing to put up with you and all your quirks that is a good sign (based on the advice of the person below).

This post REALLY isn't about the woman in question. I mention her because it illustrates a problem I'm having in that my life experiences are pretty different than other people and it makes it hard for me to relate to them at times and lack of knowledge also makes it hard to make conversation when those topics come up.

Its far from a problem that is just about her, its a problem Ive run into with basically everyone Ive met. Christian,nonchristian,sheltered,not-sheltered, wild,shut in, I just don't have the common life experiences many of them do which means I sometimes don't understand the things they talk about.


You make it sound like you are being interested romantically.

I'm interested in continuing to get to know her and I like what Ive seen so far in communicating with her. I'm open to the idea of it going somewhere romantically. That said, I'm not a puppy dog or anything. I have no idea if I would actually want to date her, I just know I want to get to know her better and think there is the possibility. I have expressed no romantic interest in her to her and wouldn't even know how to express it if I wanted to (which at this point I don't I want to continue to get to know her as I have been). We have never met in person (Though I ran into one of her friends at a conference so i'm not COMPLETLY a random internet stranger).

basically, I have no expectations, but I hope to get to know her better and see where it goes. If it turns into a romantic thing that's great, if it turns into friendship that's also great, if we decide we don't want to talk to each other, well that happens sometimes.

All that said, She is not the reason I made this post and wish people would stop chasing that tangent.
 
Upvote 0

Coolbutclueless

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
59
46
31
United States
✟26,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
And just as a side note: i'm mildly ticked that everyone is assuming just because I have some interest and am excited to meet someone I feel like I have commonality with that I must be putting her on a pedestal. She is far from the only woman Ive talked to recently, but she is the only person Ive had this much interest in. That's not putting someone on a pedestal, putting someone on a pedestal is thinking that the other person is better than you or treating them differently than you would other people. I'm doing neither of those things.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Pavel Mosko

Arch-Dude of the Apostolic
Site Supporter
Oct 4, 2016
7,236
7,313
56
Boyertown, PA.
✟768,605.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
This post REALLY isn't about the woman in question. I mention her because it illustrates a problem I'm having in that my life experiences are pretty different than other people and it makes it hard for me to relate to them at times and lack of knowledge also makes it hard to make conversation when those topics come up.

Its far from a problem that is just about her, its a problem Ive run into with basically everyone Ive met. Christian,nonchristian,sheltered,not-sheltered, wild,shut in, I just don't have the common life experiences many of them do which means I sometimes don't understand the things they talk about.

Some of what you mention makes me wonder if you got more issues going on like having autism, Aspergers etc. While I have not always connected with some people, especially when I was younger, I have trouble imagining that as a kind of general condition.

But you could try the old psychology trick of learning reflective listening when dealing with other people. This works best on extroverts who like to talk naturally...
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
And just as a side note: i'm mildly ticked that everyone is assuming just because I have some interest and am excited to meet someone I feel like I have commonality with that I must be putting her on a pedestal. She is far from the only woman Ive talked to recently, but she is the only person Ive had this much interest in. That's not putting someone on a pedestal, putting someone on a pedestal is thinking that the other person is better than you or treating them differently than you would other people. I'm doing neither of those things.
Well, you are saying she is better than you as being Orthodox and that she likes a lot of things you like.

Also don't take offense, no one is saying anything to hurt you.
 
Upvote 0

Coolbutclueless

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
59
46
31
United States
✟26,153.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Some of what you mention makes me wonder if you got more issues going on like having autism, Aspergers etc. While I have not always connected with some people, especially when I was younger, I have trouble imagining that as a kind of general condition.

But you could try the old psychology trick of learning reflective listening when dealing with other people. This works best on extroverts who like to talk naturally...

Ive actually considered autism a time or 2. Ive talked it over with my therapist and we think the issues Ive had in regards to social situations is largely the result of the environment I was raised in. Ive made great strides when it comes to my sociability in the last 4 or 5 years and at this point I would be highly surprised if I was on the spectrum. That said I do have ADHD which of course colors how I interact with the world in some ways.

I HAVE connected to people but the tended to be people who had also been through some trauma or lived a very isolated life.

Well, you are saying she is better than you as being Orthodox and that she likes a lot of things you like.

Also don't take offense, no one is saying anything to hurt you.

I mean that of the context of, her life convicts me. She certainly isn't the only person whose life has convicted me and Ive had a strong realization lately that in order to live the gospel I really need to try to find a way to serve others. I tend to be very "in my head" religiously, I think about right and wrong, where are she is living it out. I have no actual idea if she is better at "being orthodox" than me, but I'm a new convert (less than 2 years since chrismation) so most people are probably better at being orthodox than me. That's all I meant by the statement, that I was impressed by things she had mentioned in an offhand way that indicated she wants to help others. I probably could have worded that better initially. I didn't mean it a "she is on a pedestal" way (if that makes any sense).

Me and her have certainly disagreed on a few things but they are not things of consequences. I have no problem speaking my mind or feeling like I need to hide my opinions if they aren't the same as hers. I'm my own person.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Not David
Upvote 0

AMM

A Beggar
Site Supporter
May 2, 2017
1,725
1,269
Virginia
✟329,845.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
Well, you are saying she is better than you as being Orthodox and that she likes a lot of things you like.

Also don't take offense, no one is saying anything to hurt you.
To be fair, the proper humble response when we see anyone, is to genuinely and truly believe that they are better Orthodox, better Christians, better people, than we ourselves are
 
Upvote 0

peregrinus2017

Active Member
Jun 17, 2017
274
384
British Columbia
✟217,268.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Be careful deciding what's normal and what's not. Other people's experiences aren't any more "normal" than your own, just different. We all have our own personalities, and our own experiences that shape us. Categorising people is not helpful in relating to them. This is coming from an extremely asocial alexithymic.

The main thing that helps me in relating or even being with others is simply trying to remember that we are all made in the image of Christ, therefore we all matter, and striving to see Christ in everyone as best I can.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Ive actually considered autism a time or 2. Ive talked it over with my therapist and we think the issues Ive had in regards to social situations is largely the result of the environment I was raised in. Ive made great strides when it comes to my sociability in the last 4 or 5 years and at this point I would be highly surprised if I was on the spectrum. That said I do have ADHD which of course colors how I interact with the world in some ways.

I HAVE connected to people but the tended to be people who had also been through some trauma or lived a very isolated life.



I mean that of the context of, her life convicts me. She certainly isn't the only person whose life has convicted me and Ive had a strong realization lately that in order to live the gospel I really need to try to find a way to serve others. I tend to be very "in my head" religiously, I think about right and wrong, where are she is living it out. I have no actual idea if she is better at "being orthodox" than me, but I'm a new convert (less than 2 years since chrismation) so most people are probably better at being orthodox than me. That's all I meant by the statement, that I was impressed by things she had mentioned in an offhand way that indicated she wants to help others. I probably could have worded that better initially. I didn't mean it a "she is on a pedestal" way (if that makes any sense).

Me and her have certainly disagreed on a few things but they are not things of consequences. I have no problem speaking my mind or feeling like I need to hide my opinions if they aren't the same as hers. I'm my own person.
No problem dude.
 
Upvote 0

Not David

I'm back!
Apr 6, 2018
7,356
5,235
25
USA
✟231,310.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
To be fair, the proper humble response when we see anyone, is to genuinely and truly believe that they are better Orthodox, better Christians, better people, than we ourselves are
I don't mind people doing that. Though I did that and now that person is not longer Christian.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.