I don't know if this should go in here but....

[ejgsmalls]

I posted this elsewhere, but got no responses, I'm not sure where to put it, so I'm just putting here - I hope that's okay.

I was having a conversation with my brother who isn't a believer, and the topic of suffering came up. I told him that suffering is in huge part from the devil. And he said "the devil was once an angel, right? So God created Him knowing that he would turn against Him, so God essentially created evil." I said the bit about free will,and he was just like , "Yeah, but if God knows everything that everything He creates will do, He knew suffering would take place, so either He's not all knowing, or not all powerful. And if He really is, well then He's not a loving God like He claims is He?" What do you say to that?! I mean, personally I am not one to question God's ways, I mean He created us and has a huge plan here, but what do you say to someone who doesn't believe to try to explain that?

God Bless and Bless God,
~Mary

 

[ub4me]

THIS LINK MAY PROVE HELPFUL FOR YOU...
TOO MUCH TO LIST...



GOD BLESS

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/biblestudyandtheology/DrWilliams/QA04_Creation.asp?option=print#createsatan

 

[wonderwaleye]

Dear Egjsmalls


Never forget GOD'S WORD:

" VICTORY IS MINE "


Your job is to plant and another's is to harvest.



He's young and fighting to stop the giant ball that's rolling towards him that can not be stopped. He will either change or get squashed.


Some folks don't come easy and some never. But GOD'S WORD says they will be invited many times.


Just let the worlds briars tear his flesh enough and we will see how smart he is then.


If you do what the GOOD LORD directed you to do don't worry!!!


WHY???


BECAUSE VICTORY IS HIS!!!


JUST REMEMBER:




XEven though you can't see Him, GOD is there!O
( click on the X and move to the O ) ( then feel who is around you ) steven

 

[ElijahSK]

You could probably reason the creation of satan along the same lines as you can the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Why would God even make a tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Why not just let man live in peace in the garden?

God can create a person. But He cannot (doesn't) create his character. Character is something that grows and is obtained by certain trials. If Adam and Eve had no trials they would have gone throughout life with the character of a newborn or very young child. So God gave them a specific trial with specific boundaries in order for them to grow in character. If they would have not eat from the tree, a little bit of righteousness would have been birthed in them. More and more as they kept their faith in God.

God is so soveign that He is not intimidated with allowing us freedom of choice. God knew Adam would choose to remove his faith from God's word and give it to the word of satan. Because of this God could no longer relate and maintain a fellowship with him. So the human race became astranged from it's creator. We became dead to God.

God's plan was to allow men to continue in their sinful ways. Then at the time appointed He would make Himself into the form of a man. He would be tempted in the exact same things with which Adam was tempted. But God unlike Adam would pass the test.

By passing the test, He obtained eternal life for Himself in the form of man. He as a man gained the right to live forever and once again partake in the tree of life.

Consider the parable of the treasure hid in the field and the parable of the pearl of great price. Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
The field is the world. The man is Christ. The treausre is the church, His bride. Christ sold His eternal life to buy that treasure. He had already obtained eternal life, but He sold it to get us.

So Christ suffered death when He had eternal life. He was the only one able to pass the test. He offers His copy of that test to us. If we believe in His and accept it, we'll receive His score.

Consider this.1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever.

The lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life. What lead Adam and Eve to fall? Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. The tree was good for food. Lusts of the flesh. Pleasant to the eyes. Lusts of the eyes. Desired to make one wise. Pride of life.

Jesus first temptation (Matt 4:3) was the lusts of the flesh to make the stone bread. He passed (Matt 4:4). Jesus second temptation was the lusts of the eyes to throw Himself down from the top of the temple (which was a very busy place where He would be seen by many) and be caught by the angels (Matt 4:6). He passed (Matt 4:7). Jesus third temptation was the pride of life to receive all the kingdoms of the world (Matt 4:8-9). He passed (Matt 4:10).

Now who has overcome the world but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? What has overcome the world but our faith?
Now the world is still here to build our character. We have temptations, trials,and tribulations on every side. They are not worthy to be compared with the far exceeding weight of eternal glory which is to be revealed in us at the appear of Christ. Anyone who focuses on the temporal suffers more than the reason for them (the eternal rewards) is deceived. They have sorely misunderstood the purpose for the world.

Happy is the man that getting wisdom and understanding. Happy is he whose God is the Lord. Our Lord. The one and only true God.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If we say we have no sin, we make Him a liar. Then the truth is not in us, and we deceive ourselves. The wages of sin is death. Why do the heathen blame God when they receive the right and just punishment for their sins? If they deny the Son, they deny the Father. The world hears those who are of the world because they speak the things of the world. They will not hear us because we speak those things which come from the Father. Those who are the Christ will hear us.

Hope this helps you answer your friend. Your brother,
Elijah

 

[bliz]

Actually, I think your brother has it right.

Nothing happens in this world except what God causes to happen or what He allows to have happen. God allows suffering. God causes suffering.

To say anything less is to limit God's powers or knowledge. Your brother may not be a Christian, but he this much about God right.

 

[ejgsmalls]

Actually, I think your brother has it right.

Nothing happens in this world except what God causes to happen or what He allows to have happen. God allows suffering. God causes suffering.

To say anything less is to limit God's powers or knowledge. Your brother may not be a Christian, but he this much about God right.

That's why my brother doesn't believe in God. Because if he creates evil and suffering, then He isn't loving as He says.

Thanks for all your responses.

God Bless and Bless God,
~Mary

 

[silentpoet]

CS Lewis has some good writings on suffering and the problems of pain, though I can't recall the exact references right now. Maybe somebody can help and come up with the one.

 

[abbasdaughter]

The Holy Spirit is the only One who can change his heart - it's really not your job to convince him - so let yourself off the hook. You just share as the Holy Spirit allows. I've been a believer for 15 years. My oldest brother was just born again this year. He had many of the same "arguments" - they are only excuses to rationalize God away so he doesn't have to face the real issue - his lostness.

The short answer might be simply: the same God who created man knew he would sin beforehand and yet still planned before the creation of the world to send His Son to die on man's behalf. (the crucifixion was not a last minute decision because God was surprised man messed up... ) Only a loving God would continue to create man, love him, and know that it would cost Him His beloved Son. Praying for his heart to be tendered by the Spirit - God bless you. abbas daughter

 

[millerrod]

Would God want a bunch of robots sitting around a fire singing com by ya all day? no he would want those who have made a willing choice to Love him and serve him, God gives us the freedom to choose Good over evil, how could we make that choice inless there was evil, ever notice how many friends a rich man has after he loses all of his money, not many because they never really chose to be his friend, they was his friend to get the riches that surrounded him.

 

[Lintu]

I agree with your brother. Its more logical than the Christian answers that are not quite complete.

 

[ejgsmalls]

^^^ Wow - I really like that response - thank you very much....all of you who posted...thanks a trillon!!

God Bless and Bless God,
~Mary

 

[luvmyhubby]

When parents are raising a child, they have to allow the child to make mistakes in order to help him learn. This does not mean that the parents love the child any less or are not loving parents. It is the same with God. God allows us to make mistakes in order that we can learn. He permits evil to exist and ultimately uses it to glorify Him. For those who do not know Him, evil is sometimes used to draw them to Him. How many have come to Christ after being involved in drugs, or being put in prison. Look at Paul's life. Paul was a slayer of Christians. He stoned Stephen to death. But God used that evil in Paul's life to empower him to preach and teach to churches. He lets us burn our fingers on the stove, so to speak, and uses it to glorify Him. Your brother will continue to try to use logical arguments to convince himself that there is no God, or that God is not loving, until the Holy Spirit works in his heart. He wants to engage you in a battle to try to prove you wrong. Don't be engaged. I will pray for both of you.

 

[DIANAC]

I posted this elsewhere, but got no responses, I'm not sure where to put it, so I'm just putting here - I hope that's okay.

I was having a conversation with my brother who isn't a believer, and the topic of suffering came up. I told him that suffering is in huge part from the devil. And he said "the devil was once an angel, right? So God created Him knowing that he would turn against Him, so God essentially created evil." I said the bit about free will,and he was just like , "Yeah, but if God knows everything that everything He creates will do, He knew suffering would take place, so either He's not all knowing, or not all powerful. And if He really is, well then He's not a loving God like He claims is He?" What do you say to that?! I mean, personally I am not one to question God's ways, I mean He created us and has a huge plan here, but what do you say to someone who doesn't believe to try to explain that?

God Bless and Bless God,
~Mary

Mary, hello!
Last Sunday our pastor said, obviously frustrated with questions like the one your brother posed, that when someone asks that question I tell him that you will have plenty of time in Hell to learn the answer. I told my pastor that when recently in a similar situation with my cousins, I did not have the heart to answer them like that. He smiled.
To answer your question, God did not create evil, as some even Christinas suggest. How can I be certain? Because He said so. When He created the Creation, He said in Genesis that IT WAS GOOD. Not maybe good, or so-so good, but absolute good. In the present time we are not capable of comprehending this type of good. For us good is a strawberry ice cream, spring day or maybe if we are not in pain. We can not understand that level of GOOD, total absence of pain, suffering, even the memory of suffering and pain is not present. So, God is not a source of evil. Furthermore, He created us with a full knowledge that we will disobey Him and with a full knowledge of what it is going to cost Him because of the end result.
Keep praying for your brother.
Be well,
Diana