I don't know how to trust God....at all...what is wrong with me?!

zephcom

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This would be a major understatement. I am basically convinced that God has a raging hatred for me and is planning to burn my worthless hide forever.

So you would think that studying the scripture ought to be enough to realize how erroneous my view of God is? Here is where it gets complicated:

I have read many outstanding articles explaining the finer details of the Bible and read works from the finest apologists, priests, pastors, etc that I could find. Their arguments made perfect logical sense....yet I don't believe a single one of them.

No matter what I read, who I talk to, or how much I try to contemplate what God says in the Gospel I can't seem to shake the overwhelming sense that not a single word of it applies to me. God is talking to those wonderful special people who simply deserve to be saved because some part of them is worth saving.

Yet I am convinced that God is laughing at and mocking me just like every other person I've ever met. I have been a total joke to everyone since the day I was born. No matter how hard I try to be moral I'm just going to mess up and all the good things I did prior to that mistake will become entirely voided. Yet the Bible says the exact opposite of this...

There is something wrong inside my brain. All I see is the darkness all around me and the total absence of good in my life. I go from failure to failure and embarrassment to embarrassment. There is not a single sign anywhere that God has a plan for my life. If somehow God decides to arbitrarily let me into heaven because Jesus said "sure why not?" I'd still be in a panic. What if God decides at any given moment that this one guy is too disgusting to be covered by the cross? Yet I know this statement is absurd...


I sense from the replies to your post to this point that people truly want to reach out to you and help you. Such is the case with me. I have no authority to promise that what I suggest will work.

I have looked at the teachings of Jesus. I've done that in an exclusive manner. By that I mean I have excluded the entire Old Testament and the commentary of humans in the New Testament. I have focused only on the teaching of Jesus as recorded in the New Testament.

What I suggest is a bit radical. Stop focusing on yourself. For reasons that aren't important here, you are safe. God loves you with all the power and authority that comes with being God. Know that is true. God is the Good shepherd and all sheep are safe within His grasp.

I suggest that you do something nice for someone else. It can be something as simple as holding the door open at the post office so someone behind you can enter. I don't know what it is, but doing something as simple as that seems to make the world just a tiny bit more satisfied than it was before.

If the world is just a tiny bit more satisfied than it was before, then the world is a better place for all of us.

All Jesus ever asked of anyone is that we do for others what we would like done for us. Even if that is just holding the door open for us....
 
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Sanoy

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No matter how hard I try to be moral I'm just going to mess up and all the good things I did prior to that mistake will become entirely voided. Yet the Bible says the exact opposite of this...
The good things you do are never stacked in your favor. All that is required of salvation is faith. Faith is not belief that God exists, but trust in his promise. Romans 10:17 says that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." So continue to read the word and focus on trusting God for His promise.

Romans 4:16-25.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”c He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

It wasn't Abraham belief in the existence of God for which he was counted faithful, it was his trust in God's promise, a promise he would not see come forth in his lifetime. Trust in the promise of Christ to save you by Grace. Do not supplement His grace with your expectations and failures of them.

Continue to read the word and step out in trust of Christs promise.
 
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DarkSoul999

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I suggest that you do something nice for someone else. It can be something as simple as holding the door open at the post office so someone behind you can enter. I don't know what it is, but doing something as simple as that seems to make the world just a tiny bit more satisfied than it was before.

If the world is just a tiny bit more satisfied than it was before, then the world is a better place for all of us.

All Jesus ever asked of anyone is that we do for others what we would like done for us. Even if that is just holding the door open for us....

I helped save the lives of hundreds of people at my job which is probably a lot bigger than what you suggest...but absolutely none of that counts whatsoever. It is all temporary and all my efforts were pathetic and weak. If I ever become too sick and frail to serve a useful purpose to humanity then I will almost certainly end my life. That would prevent this worthless hide from using up resources that could otherwise be spent on more valuable people.
 
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DarkSoul999

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The good things you do are never stacked in your favor. All that is required of salvation is faith. Faith is not belief that God exists, but trust in his promise. Romans 10:17 says that "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." So continue to read the word and focus on trusting God for His promise.

Romans 4:16-25.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”c He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.

18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

It wasn't Abraham belief in the existence of God for which he was counted faithful, it was his trust in God's promise, a promise he would not see come forth in his lifetime. Trust in the promise of Christ to save you by Grace. Do not supplement His grace with your expectations and failures of them.

Continue to read the word and step out in trust of Christs promise.

How did Abraham get to the point where his faith was like that? I never witnessed anything but the power of evil.
 
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zephcom

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I helped save the lives of hundreds of people at my job which is probably a lot bigger than what you suggest...but absolutely none of that counts whatsoever. It is all temporary and all my efforts were pathetic and weak. If I ever become too sick and frail to serve a useful purpose to humanity then I will almost certainly end my life. That would prevent this worthless hide from using up resources that could otherwise be spent on more valuable people.

I certainly don't want to negate the lives you have saved on your job. The people you saved are, I'm sure, very grateful. But what I suggested is to do things for your soul, not your job.

Helping others because you want to and not because you are paid to benefits you and not your employer. This is the treasure Jesus says will be stored in heaven.

The things I suggest are small things. But, surprisingly enough, it is the small things which bring joy and satisfaction to the lives of others. And, for some reason, it also brings serenity and happiness to the one who does those things for no other reason than that other person is a child of God. And, as a child of God, something nice should occur in their life right now.

I read somewhere that no human can give love faster than God can restore it.
 
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DarkSoul999

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I certainly don't want to negate the lives you have saved on your job. The people you saved are, I'm sure, very grateful. But what I suggested is to do things for your soul, not your job.

Helping others because you want to and not because you are paid to benefits you and not your employer. This is the treasure Jesus says will be stored in heaven.

The things I suggest are small things. But, surprisingly enough, it is the small things which bring joy and satisfaction to the lives of others. And, for some reason, it also brings serenity and happiness to the one who does those things for no other reason than that other person is a child of God. And, as a child of God, something nice should occur in their life right now.

I read somewhere that no human can give love faster than God can restore it.

I think you are making a lot of assumptions here. Over the last four months I've been supporting a man who lives in a condo down the street. He used to work as a trucker and then had a stroke. The state said he had to wait 4 months before receiving his first disability check. Perhaps it was God telling me that this guy was legit or maybe it was my own intuition but perhaps we can go with the former. So I've been supporting this guy over the last four months because absolutely everyone else in the local area told the guy to shove off. He was grateful enough to offer to help in return at some future date.

I did not feel any serenity or happiness during this period whatsoever. Only anger. I am angry that a regular working class guy can turn instantly destitute over a single freak medical accident. The state is going to continue running dry and the cost of everything will only go up. I didn't save anyone. Maybe if I invent something and become wealthy it will have a longer effect but the problems in the world will always be far far greater than my pathetic attempts at fixing them.

If you really want to understand why I have no faith it all comes from one question:

why did God go through the trouble of sending his son to die on the cross and then completely abandon this world?
 
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zephcom

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I think you are making a lot of assumptions here. Over the last four months I've been supporting a man who lives in a condo down the street. He used to work as a trucker and then had a stroke. The state said he had to wait 4 months before receiving his first disability check. Perhaps it was God telling me that this guy was legit or maybe it was my own intuition but perhaps we can go with the former. So I've been supporting this guy over the last four months because absolutely everyone else in the local area told the guy to shove off. He was grateful enough to offer to help in return at some future date.

I did not feel any serenity or happiness during this period whatsoever. Only anger. I am angry that a regular working class guy can turn instantly destitute over a single freak medical accident. The state is going to continue running dry and the cost of everything will only go up. I didn't save anyone. Maybe if I invent something and become wealthy it will have a longer effect but the problems in the world will always be far far greater than my pathetic attempts at fixing them.

If you really want to understand why I have no faith it all comes from one question:

why did God go through the trouble of sending his son to die on the cross and then completely abandon this world?

Remember, I only can respond to what you share with us. As the conversation continues we get a better and better picture of you and the issues which you are dealing with.

Your question about God, His Son and abandonment is one people have struggled with for two thousand years. And, quite frankly, Christianity has no good explanation.

As a Deist, I'm not restricted to a single religion or even a single theory about the meaning of life. I, too, have struggled with this question. I have arrived at a solution which I'm satisfied with and which I think better explains Jesus' teachings, His relationship with God, and the meaning of life in the physical realm.

In a nutshell, this physical realm is not 'real'. By that, I mean that we are not really physical beings. We are, every single one of us, spiritual beings who are temporarily residing inside physical shells for the purpose of learning and growing spiritually.

I think of the physical realm as a massive roll playing scenario which allows us to learn and grow spiritually while our real beings are kept safe. The actual teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Bible certainly points to this type of concept.

This concept also is an excellent explanation of why the world never seems to get any better. If it got better how would we experience the situations which lead us to learn and grow? And it does a much better job of explaining the true relationship between Jesus and God.

Just as we are all spiritual beings, so is Jesus. The only true difference between us and Jesus is His advanced spiritual existence. We are ALL 'Sons of God'. Just as we put on a physical body to experience the physical realm, so did Jesus.

He came here to leave behind teachings designed to help us learn and grow spiritually. As we learn and grow, the physical realm presents to us new challenges and new opportunities to grow even more. The world appears chaotic because each of us are in a difference place spiritually.

Jesus did not come here to die on the cross and magically make everything better for us. He came here to leave a teaching behind for us to use as a guide in our own lives. He had to die somehow because He was wearing a mortal body just like we do.

That's it in a nutshell. I suppose a book could be written about this with references and footnotes and all that. For me, this has resolved the turmoil in my life and lead to peace within myself and peace with the world.

Doing good things for others helps others. What you do helps others. And helping others is very important. But more important is whether you allow what you do for others to help you learn and grow spiritually. Being presented with opportunities to help others is a gift from the Father so you grow as a spiritual being. Being angry at the Father for not caring for others Himself takes away the beauty of the gift.

Of course God could fix everything here in an instant. But how would any of us learn and grow if He did?
 
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aiki

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If you really want to understand why I have no faith it all comes from one question:

why did God go through the trouble of sending his son to die on the cross and then completely abandon this world?

He hasn't abandoned the world. Not at all. My grandmother liked to garden. She would fuss over her rows of vegetables and bushes of berries for hours. But in spite of all her efforts, bunnies would eat her lettuce and carrots and bugs would infest her kale and tomatoes. The destruction these vermin caused weren't a sign of my grandmother having abandoned her garden. Not hardly! If she hadn't been as active in her garden as she was the devastation these creatures would have caused would have been much greater! So, too, with God. He doesn't stop all the evil our sin causes in the world but He does limit much of it, tending the garden of humanity such that He doesn't negate our free will.
 
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DarkSoul999

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Remember, I only can respond to what you share with us. As the conversation continues we get a better and better picture of you and the issues which you are dealing with.

Your question about God, His Son and abandonment is one people have struggled with for two thousand years. And, quite frankly, Christianity has no good explanation.

As a Deist, I'm not restricted to a single religion or even a single theory about the meaning of life. I, too, have struggled with this question. I have arrived at a solution which I'm satisfied with and which I think better explains Jesus' teachings, His relationship with God, and the meaning of life in the physical realm.

In a nutshell, this physical realm is not 'real'. By that, I mean that we are not really physical beings. We are, every single one of us, spiritual beings who are temporarily residing inside physical shells for the purpose of learning and growing spiritually.

I think of the physical realm as a massive roll playing scenario which allows us to learn and grow spiritually while our real beings are kept safe. The actual teachings of Jesus as recorded in the Bible certainly points to this type of concept.

I am completely horrified by that idea. For starters, it sounds more like The Hunger Games than God's plan. The lesson from that book was not how wonderful the ultimate plan of life was....it was a warning about the darkness of life. Second, nobody seems to be learning anything. Almost everyone just floats through life barely surviving and generally clueless about what they are really supposed to be doing. Just look at politics! A three year old child has more wisdom than nearly every adult involved in politics! Now let's talk about the chaos. What am I supposed to be learning when I witness tragedy? Just a life lost and a thousand future generations from that person now annihilated. So many people with a wonderful productive future ahead of them now annihilated. Meanwhile, my loser self just floats around the Earth wondering why it was them and not me instead. Why does God remove them from the world and keep my disgusting life going? I won't ever be grateful for that.

This concept also is an excellent explanation of why the world never seems to get any better. If it got better how would we experience the situations which lead us to learn and grow? And it does a much better job of explaining the true relationship between Jesus and God.

I deeply resent the idea that a beautiful child has to die in agony so my pathetic self "learns a lesson". What exactly is this lesson? That I should hate this world and look forward to death? That lesson is learned well!

Or maybe I'm supposed to figure out how to perform miracles? That would be great if I could.

Just as we are all spiritual beings, so is Jesus. The only true difference between us and Jesus is His advanced spiritual existence. We are ALL 'Sons of God'. Just as we put on a physical body to experience the physical realm, so did Jesus.

He came here to leave behind teachings designed to help us learn and grow spiritually. As we learn and grow, the physical realm presents to us new challenges and new opportunities to grow even more. The world appears chaotic because each of us are in a difference place spiritually.

I am so happy that you are in a higher place spiritually. Lucky you! The world is completely awful to me and there is no guarantee that I'll ever experience anything else.

I cannot relate to Jesus's god-level mind. Even at the peak of his loneliness he still knew that his life had profound meaning. He never once said to himself "uh oh what if this doesn't work?!". Despite the terror in the garden he always knew with absolute certainty that the cross would be sufficient.

I will never know with absolute certainty that God isn't going to toss my *** in Hell. He almost certainly will because Jesus is disgusted by my lack of faith!

Jesus did not come here to die on the cross and magically make everything better for us. He came here to leave a teaching behind for us to use as a guide in our own lives. He had to die somehow because He was wearing a mortal body just like we do.

I don't expect him to do that. I expect him to show his glory. I want to see his hand working in this world....but that doesn't seem to happen anywhere. Anyone who wishes to do his will is humiliated regardless. Evil wins every time. I've learned to harden my heart and not have any affection for anyone but odds are that person will be damned and lost. The world corrupts and destroys all but the strongest.

That's it in a nutshell. I suppose a book could be written about this with references and footnotes and all that. For me, this has resolved the turmoil in my life and lead to peace within myself and peace with the world.

Doing good things for others helps others. What you do helps others. And helping others is very important. But more important is whether you allow what you do for others to help you learn and grow spiritually. Being presented with opportunities to help others is a gift from the Father so you grow as a spiritual being. Being angry at the Father for not caring for others Himself takes away the beauty of the gift.

Of course God could fix everything here in an instant. But how would any of us learn and grow if He did?

It would be nice if there was some beauty involved....but it never happens. I'm still waiting for the day that changes but there is little expectation at this point.
 
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DarkSoul999

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He hasn't abandoned the world. Not at all. My grandmother liked to garden. She would fuss over her rows of vegetables and bushes of berries for hours. But in spite of all her efforts, bunnies would eat her lettuce and carrots and bugs would infest her kale and tomatoes. The destruction these vermin caused weren't a sign of my grandmother having abandoned her garden. Not hardly! If she hadn't been as active in her garden as she was the devastation these creatures would have caused would have been much greater! So, too, with God. He doesn't stop all the evil our sin causes in the world but He does limit much of it, tending the garden of humanity such that He doesn't negate our free will.

An evil human has the power to destroy a life with incredible ease. It is almost impossible for a mortal such as myself to do the opposite. A decade of training and unending effort might reverse maybe 1% of the damage that one evil individual caused with a single stroke of his hand.

I DO NOT CARE about the logical reasons for why evil exists. I do not care that God might be sort of holding some of it back!

What I want to understand is why does he make this so hard to see? I have never ever seen his hand working in anything. It resembles a random universe so clearly that most children are now growing up to be atheists. This means that if people manage to avoid a tragic death then there is a good chance that their souls will be destroyed anyway! They lose either way. It is so bad that I no longer feel any affection for anyone. I feel only rage for the enemy.
 
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zephcom

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I am completely horrified by that idea. For starters, it sounds more like The Hunger Games than God's plan. The lesson from that book was not how wonderful the ultimate plan of life was....it was a warning about the darkness of life. Second, nobody seems to be learning anything. Almost everyone just floats through life barely surviving and generally clueless about what they are really supposed to be doing. Just look at politics! A three year old child has more wisdom than nearly every adult involved in politics! Now let's talk about the chaos. What am I supposed to be learning when I witness tragedy? Just a life lost and a thousand future generations from that person now annihilated. So many people with a wonderful productive future ahead of them now annihilated. Meanwhile, my loser self just floats around the Earth wondering why it was them and not me instead. Why does God remove them from the world and keep my disgusting life going? I won't ever be grateful for that.

Wasn't Jennifer Lawrence wonderful in those movies?? I think the 'Hunger Games' was a great metaphor for America today.

When you talk about 'God's Plan' I suspect you are really talking about the plan Christianity teaches. God's plan is more likely to be what is real rather than what a religion teaches. If I'm right, then 'God's Plan' is working perfectly.

People ARE wandering around clueless. In part that is because this role playing realm is so realistic that people think of it as being real. That is when role playing becomes really useful.

But there is another reason why people are wandering around clueless. Christianity has dropped the ball. Christianity has Jesus and it doesn't use Jesus' teaching in the religion. Instead, they use the teachings of normal human beings.

Jesus' teachings are similar to nearly every enduring spiritual teacher the planet has had.


I deeply resent the idea that a beautiful child has to die in agony so my pathetic self "learns a lesson". What exactly is this lesson? That I should hate this world and look forward to death? That lesson is learned well!

Or maybe I'm supposed to figure out how to perform miracles? That would be great if I could.

You are still oriented into the physical realm as being the real existence. That isn't a criticism it is simply a statement of fact. It takes a while to accept that what we think of as real isn't real.

A 'beautiful child' does not 'die' in this realm. They play a role. And, most likely, it is a role they accepted before coming into this realm. What you should be doing is learning and growing spiritually from the things which happen around you. That 'child' is immortal just as you are.


I am so happy that you are in a higher place spiritually. Lucky you! The world is completely awful to me and there is no guarantee that I'll ever experience anything else.

I cannot relate to Jesus's god-level mind. Even at the peak of his loneliness he still knew that his life had profound meaning. He never once said to himself "uh oh what if this doesn't work?!". Despite the terror in the garden he always knew with absolute certainty that the cross would be sufficient.

I will never know with absolute certainty that God isn't going to toss my *** in Hell. He almost certainly will because Jesus is disgusted by my lack of faith!

Honestly, faith does not save you. Works does not save you. Learning and growing does not save you. You came into this realm saved, you will leave it saved. You are an immortal spiritual being.

In one of the earliest writings about Jesus, earlier than even the Gospels, Paul wrote in I Corinthians 15:21-22:

"21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

Jesus has already handled that for you and for everyone else. Jesus is NOT disgusted by you. Jesus loves you with all the perfect love which comes from the Father.

I don't expect him to do that. I expect him to show his glory. I want to see his hand working in this world....but that doesn't seem to happen anywhere. Anyone who wishes to do his will is humiliated regardless. Evil wins every time. I've learned to harden my heart and not have any affection for anyone but odds are that person will be damned and lost. The world corrupts and destroys all but the strongest.

I expect the moon to be made of green cheese too, but between you and me, I doubt my expectations will come true. Christianity has built a God that is not real because the God Christianity built is not based on Jesus' teachings. Because of the forum rules, I can't be more descriptive of why I say that, but there are reasons.

Suffice it to say, if this world is not real, if it is a role playing device used as a teaching tool, then a God which allows this world to function this way makes sense.

It would be nice if there was some beauty involved....but it never happens. I'm still waiting for the day that changes but there is little expectation at this point.

I will agree with you that we should have little expectation of the world changing. The expectation we should have is of US changing. Every journey through this realm is an individual journey. And that journey is not made to change this realm. It is made to change us as individuals.

There is beauty in this world. We need only work to create it.
 
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DarkSoul999

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Wasn't Jennifer Lawrence wonderful in those movies?? I think the 'Hunger Games' was a great metaphor for America today.

When you talk about 'God's Plan' I suspect you are really talking about the plan Christianity teaches. God's plan is more likely to be what is real rather than what a religion teaches. If I'm right, then 'God's Plan' is working perfectly.

People ARE wandering around clueless. In part that is because this role playing realm is so realistic that people think of it as being real. That is when role playing becomes really useful.

But there is another reason why people are wandering around clueless. Christianity has dropped the ball. Christianity has Jesus and it doesn't use Jesus' teaching in the religion. Instead, they use the teachings of normal human beings.

Jesus' teachings are similar to nearly every enduring spiritual teacher the planet has had.




You are still oriented into the physical realm as being the real existence. That isn't a criticism it is simply a statement of fact. It takes a while to accept that what we think of as real isn't real.

A 'beautiful child' does not 'die' in this realm. They play a role. And, most likely, it is a role they accepted before coming into this realm. What you should be doing is learning and growing spiritually from the things which happen around you. That 'child' is immortal just as you are.




Honestly, faith does not save you. Works does not save you. Learning and growing does not save you. You came into this realm saved, you will leave it saved. You are an immortal spiritual being.

In one of the earliest writings about Jesus, earlier than even the Gospels, Paul wrote in I Corinthians 15:21-22:

"21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

Jesus has already handled that for you and for everyone else. Jesus is NOT disgusted by you. Jesus loves you with all the perfect love which comes from the Father.



I expect the moon to be made of green cheese too, but between you and me, I doubt my expectations will come true. Christianity has built a God that is not real because the God Christianity built is not based on Jesus' teachings. Because of the forum rules, I can't be more descriptive of why I say that, but there are reasons.

Suffice it to say, if this world is not real, if it is a role playing device used as a teaching tool, then a God which allows this world to function this way makes sense.



I will agree with you that we should have little expectation of the world changing. The expectation we should have is of US changing. Every journey through this realm is an individual journey. And that journey is not made to change this realm. It is made to change us as individuals.

There is beauty in this world. We need only work to create it.

If this whole thing is just a giant game then why not crush all my emotions like they are a disease and just start playing the game? I will do nothing with my time other than advance science and industry.

I have absolutely ZERO interest in sitting under a damn Bodhi tree and contemplating the ethereal spiritual reality. I used to do that sort of crap when I was younger and now it disgusts me. If feels and is like pure egotism.

I see these parents who spend every last waking moment of their lives taking care of genetically damaged children. There is no time for spiritual contemplation. They are utterly exhausted every day, rarely get any sleep, and never any answers. It is a game of nothing but suffering. Their love consists entirely of pain and sacrifice and not one iota of peace.

If this is all part of the plan then I really hope that God isn't demanding that we be joyful! I refuse to be happy with that! Wouldn't it make more sense to just dominate nature and focus on being a force for change? I would be like "well this is how it is going, God, hope you enjoy the show!" If God says "no screw you!" then I'll just have to accept my hopeless and absurd place in existence....

P.S yes Jennifer Lawrence is cool
 
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zephcom

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If this whole thing is just a giant game then why not crush all my emotions like they are a disease and just start playing the game? I will do nothing with my time other than advance science and industry.

I have absolutely ZERO interest in sitting under a damn Bodhi tree and contemplating the ethereal spiritual reality. I used to do that sort of crap when I was younger and now it disgusts me. If feels and is like pure egotism.

I see these parents who spend every last waking moment of their lives taking care of genetically damaged children. There is no time for spiritual contemplation. They are utterly exhausted every day, rarely get any sleep, and never any answers. It is a game of nothing but suffering. Their love consists entirely of pain and sacrifice and not one iota of peace.

If this is all part of the plan then I really hope that God isn't demanding that we be joyful! I refuse to be happy with it!

P.S yes Jennifer Lawrence is cool

You can do all those things. You can play the game or not play the game. But one the things I haven't figured out yet to my satisfaction is whether or not this is our only chance at the game or whether we get to do it over and over again.

If it is our only chance, it would be a shame to waste the opportunity.

All this takes us back to my original comments. All of this learning and growing starts just like any other learning and growing starts...with the basics. People learn to read by first understanding what letters are.

Start with the little things. Doing little things for others quickly becomes a habit just like learning letters becomes a habit. And just like reading, doing nice things for others can be done just for the pleasure of doing them.

Then the beauty of this world starts coming out when others respond to the love you send to them.
 
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DarkSoul999

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You can do all those things. You can play the game or not play the game. But one the things I haven't figured out yet to my satisfaction is whether or not this is our only chance at the game or whether we get to do it over and over again.

If it is our only chance, it would be a shame to waste the opportunity.

We get only one chance

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment -Hebrews 9:27

All this takes us back to my original comments. All of this learning and growing starts just like any other learning and growing starts...with the basics. People learn to read by first understanding what letters are.

Start with the little things. Doing little things for others quickly becomes a habit just like learning letters becomes a habit. And just like reading, doing nice things for others can be done just for the pleasure of doing them.

Well 80-90 years (in better case scenario) is just enough time to learn everything at break neck pace. There is no time for rest, no time for peace, no time to be patient. Failing to learn any critical point could render our souls null...

Then the beauty of this world starts coming out when others respond to the love you send to them.

I will let you know when that starts happening. There is a widespread entitlement mentality across the world. People demand more and more for less and less. This gets worse every year.

Beauty can only ever be found in victory over primal evil and chaos in nature. I need to attain total dominance over fallen creation before I completely mentally snap...would be really nice if God decides to do this one of these days.
 
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zephcom

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We get only one chance

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment -Hebrews 9:27

If this realm isn't real, then the passage is not talking about a death here.


Well 80-90 years (in better case scenario) is just enough time to learn everything at break neck pace. There is no time for rest, no time for peace, no time to be patient. Failing to learn any critical point could render our souls null...

As I pointed out, there is no failing. We are immortal. We have all the time in the universe to accomplish what we need to accomplish. It is the Christian religion which wants you to believe you can fail not God.



I will let you know when that starts happening. There is a widespread entitlement mentality across the world. People demand more and more for less and less. This gets worse every year.

Beauty can only ever be found in victory over primal evil and chaos in nature. I need to attain total dominance over fallen creation before I completely mentally snap...would be really nice if God decides to do this one of these days.

Actually, victory over primal evil and chaos in nature is the last place one should look for beauty. Nature is what God desires it to be and defeating nature is to oppose God.

Beauty is all around us. It is in the smile of a newborn, it is in the blooming of a flower, it is in the wag of a dog's tail, it is in the love of a spouse, and it is in the face of one being helped.

Beauty is found in individual things. It is not found in the overall picture. One sees beauty only when one looks for beauty. When one is looking for evil and ugliness, beauty is never seen.

All of us perceive this realm differently because this realm reacts to what we want from it. If you want this realm to be dark, ugly and evil, it will be that. If you want it to be light, beautiful and good, it will be that.

You make this realm what you want it to be by the way you interact with it. If you behave with love, joy and laughter, it will present itself to you with love, joy and laughter. Look for the good and you will find it.

I have friends who's politics, economics, and nearly every other aspect of this realm differ from me. But they are and have been for decades close friends whom I would trust my life to. And that is because I looked for and found the decency in their core being.

There is beauty in that friendship.
 
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DarkSoul999

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Actually, victory over primal evil and chaos in nature is the last place one should look for beauty. Nature is what God desires it to be and defeating nature is to oppose God.

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.” -Genesis 3:18-19

Nature was supposed to be paradise...then it wasn't

Beauty is all around us. It is in the smile of a newborn, it is in the blooming of a flower, it is in the wag of a dog's tail, it is in the love of a spouse, and it is in the face of one being helped.

Beauty is found in individual things. It is not found in the overall picture. One sees beauty only when one looks for beauty. When one is looking for evil and ugliness, beauty is never seen.

A few hours ago I went to a festival. The weather was perfect, the place was filled with color, beautiful families were walking all around....and I cursed the air that this stuff was placed on the wrong planet. Torment, corruption, and destruction awaits them all.

All of us perceive this realm differently because this realm reacts to what we want from it. If you want this realm to be dark, ugly and evil, it will be that. If you want it to be light, beautiful and good, it will be that.

You are suggesting that I use my willpower to dominate the planet and alter it into an image that I find acceptable?

You make this realm what you want it to be by the way you interact with it. If you behave with love, joy and laughter, it will present itself to you with love, joy and laughter. Look for the good and you will find it.

uhhhhh if this were true all the nice people I know wouldn't be suffering horribly right now

I have friends who's politics, economics, and nearly every other aspect of this realm differ from me. But they are and have been for decades close friends whom I would trust my life to. And that is because I looked for and found the decency in their core being.

There is beauty in that friendship.

I am starting to think that you might have had a very easy life....no offense

Both the Bible and a cursory analysis of current events/history both confirm that the species is inherently corrupt, selfish, self-loving, and apathetic towards the needs of the desperate.

People with corrupt political views might make for fine drinking buddies but there absolutely no way in hell that I would trust them completely.
 
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zephcom

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“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.” -Genesis 3:18-19

Nature was supposed to be paradise...then it wasn't

Both Genesis stories are spiritual teachings, not historical fact. Nature has always been what it is now. It will always be what it is now until the end of the planet.

Nature follows the real Laws of God. The laws of physics are the true laws of God.


A few hours ago I went to a festival. The weather was perfect, the place was filled with color, beautiful families were walking all around....and I cursed the air that this stuff was placed on the wrong planet. Torment, corruption, and destruction awaits them all.

There is only one existence. It is the existence that is occurring right now. The past doesn't exist and neither does the future. Only Now exists. And it is in the Now that one fines beauty.

You suppose a future but you don't know a future.

You are suggesting that I use my willpower to dominate the planet and alter it into an image that I find acceptable?

Yep. Well, okay, I don't suggest you use your willpower to dominate the planet. But I do suggest you use your willpower to change the part of the planet that directly affects you. One can become the change one expects from others.

Jesus teaches that if one desires to become the greatest in the world, one must become the servant to the world. My father put it differently when he told me once that I should never ask someone else to do something I won't do myself.

If one wants the people around them to be loving and caring, one HAS to be willing to first do that themselves.

The laws of Karma are the same. One gets in return what one sends out.

uhhhhh if this were true all the nice people I know wouldn't be suffering horribly right now

The issue is not whether nice people suffer. We all know that they do. The issue is whether they use that suffering to grow in their spirituality. One can not make strong steel without the flames of fire. One does not grow their spirituality without the tests of spiritual suffering.

There is another set of spiritual stories from the Old Testament which speaks to this...the story of Job. Personally, I dislike the two stories of Job because it puts God is such a position that no one could possibly like Him.

But the spiritual teaching in the story is that people who have strong spiritual experiences can and will endue everything that can be thrown at them and not be broken by those things.

The Christians who were slain for the entertainment of Romans had accepted the challenge from Jesus to grow their spirituality to the place where not even the threat of slaughter could shake them from their belief that Jesus was right.


I am starting to think that you might have had a very easy life....no offense

Both the Bible and a cursory analysis of current events/history both confirm that the species is inherently corrupt, selfish, self-loving, and apathetic towards the needs of the desperate.

People with corrupt political views might make for fine drinking buddies but there absolutely no way in hell that I would trust them completely.

No offense taken. -I- think I have had an easy life. I also think I have had an easy life in large part because I have tried to make life easy for those around me.

It goes back to the Karma thing.

My friends who don't share my political views are not bad people. They don't see the world like I see it, but they are not bad people. I liked the way John McCain put it back in his campaign for president.

He was at a campaign stop when a fan from the audience was using the opportunity to ask him a question to rail against Obama as Muslim and a hater of America. McCain gently took the mic from her and said that he has to stop her because what she was saying wasn't true. He said that Obama was a Christian man who loves his family and loves America. Then he said that he and Obama just had differences on how to lead America.

McCain is not a bad person and neither are my friends. We just have a difference of opinion in the way we would like things to be handled politically.

I would hate to lose my friends just because they have different opinions than I do.
 
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Sanoy

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How did Abraham get to the point where his faith was like that? I never witnessed anything but the power of evil.
Abraham witnessed it as well because he lived in the third dynasty of UR, as well as the trading town of Harran where he likely witnessed the evils of many nations. In extrabiblical texts, Jasher irc, Abrahams father made and sold Idols. So Abraham saw evil as well, perhaps that is also how he recognized the light.
 
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