• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

I don't believe in the ten percent rule

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by John55107, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. John55107

    John55107 New Member

    27
    +15
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    There's not enough evidence in the Bible to support giving 10 percent of your income, but only a few verses. Alot of Christians go off of those verses and say your supposed to give 10 percent. We're not supposed to give because we have to, the Bible says to give out of a joyful heart. That means if we give 10 percent were pressured to give because if we don't we won't get blessed. If you want to give a certain amount, that's ok. That's a good strategy. We don't need to earn God's favor, we already have it
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +7,709
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    None of the above. You do it because it's financially sound.
    You can double your savings, and double your additional charity
    giving by tithing.

    I can show you the math if you need it.

    Here are 47 mentions of tithe.

    What Does the Bible Say About Tithe?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  3. Al Touthentop

    Al Touthentop Well-Known Member

    +870
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    US-Libertarian

    The bible isn't a financial planning device and it isn't a way to cause God to provide you wealth. In fact the Lord commanded us to be content with whatever we had, rich or poor. He didn't encourage anyone to pray for wealth. The opposite in fact.

    The old law demanded tithing. The new law says that we should give cheerfully according to our means. That could mean more than 10%. It's all God's money anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +7,709
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Yes it is. There are more than 2300 verses on money, wealth and possessions. Jesus spoke about money roughly 15% of his preaching and 11 out of 39 parables.

    It was his most talked about topic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  5. Al Touthentop

    Al Touthentop Well-Known Member

    +870
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    US-Libertarian
    So, he didn't come here to save us from our sins. he came to teach us how to be rich. Amazing. I suppose that's why he said that it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Brother, I think you have the wrong idea about the word of God.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +7,709
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Solomon, is that you?

    Hebrews 13:5
    Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

    1 Timothy 6:10
    For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

    Proverbs 22:7
    The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

    Matthew 6:24
    “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

    Proverbs 13:11
    Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

    Ecclesiastes 5:10
    He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

    Luke 12:15
    And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

    Matthew 6:19-21
    “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    1 Timothy 6:17-19
    As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

    Proverbs 13:22
    A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous.

    1 Timothy 5:8
    But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

    Proverbs 22:1
    A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, and favor is better than silver or gold.

    Philippians 4:19
    And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

    Ecclesiastes 5:18-20
    Behold, what I have seen to be good and fitting is to eat and drink and find enjoyment in all the toil with which one toils under the sun the few days of his life that God has given him, for this is his lot. Everyone also to whom God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and to accept his lot and rejoice in his toil—this is the gift of God. For he will not much remember the days of his life because God keeps him occupied with joy in his heart.

    Luke 14:28-30
    For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’

    Malachi 3:10
    Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

    Deuteronomy 8:18
    You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

    Luke 12:33-34
    Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    Proverbs 3:9-10
    Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.

    Luke 6:38
    Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

    Proverbs 21:20
    Precious treasure and oil are in a wise man's dwelling, but a foolish man devours it.

    Proverbs 10:22
    The blessing of the Lord makes rich, and he adds no sorrow with it.

    Psalm 37:21
    The wicked borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives;

    Luke 16:11
    If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches?

    Proverbs 22:26-27
    Be not one of those who give pledges, who put up security for debts. If you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from under you?

    Romans 13:8
    Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

    Matthew 6:21
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    Exodus 22:25
    “If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him.

    Acts 20:35
    In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

    John 3:16
    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    1 Corinthians 16:2
    On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

    Proverbs 23:4-5
    Do not toil to acquire wealth; be discerning enough to desist. When your eyes light on it, it is gone, for suddenly it sprouts wings, flying like an eagle toward heaven.

    Philippians 4
    Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

    Matthew 6:31-33
    Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

    Matthew 6:33
    But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

    Matthew 5:42
    Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

    Mark 8:36
    For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?

    Proverbs 3:9
    Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce;

    Luke 14:28
    For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

    Matthew 25:14-30
    “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. ...

    Proverbs 27:23
    Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds,

    James 5:1-6
    Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. ...

    Proverbs 11:4
    Riches do not profit in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death.

    Proverbs 15:27
    Whoever is greedy for unjust gain troubles his own household, but he who hates bribes will live.

    2 Corinthians 9:7
    Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    Proverbs 10:4
    A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

    Proverbs 30:8-9
    Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with the food that is needful for me, lest I be full and deny you and say, “Who is the Lord?” or lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God.

    Leviticus 19:13
    “You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

    Proverbs 22:16
    Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

    Ecclesiastes 7:12
    For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

    1 Timothy 6:17
    As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.

    Proverbs 22:9
    Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

    2 Corinthians 9:8
    And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

    M
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  7. Al Touthentop

    Al Touthentop Well-Known Member

    +870
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Divorced
    US-Libertarian
    Haha! Ok, point taken. I apologize. Here's the thing though, while you might find some great advice about money in the bible, you'll also find that Jesus applauded a woman who tossed all of her wealth, 100%, into the collection box. By all financial standards that was a terrible idea. But by all Godly standards it was amazing and wonderful.

    So I don't view the bible at all as a financial planning device. In my opinion, if one is using it for that purpose, he's missing the point of it.
     
  8. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic Supporter

    +11,371
    United States
    Catholic
    Widowed
    US-Republican
    Jesus honors this woman as an example. And in doing so, He shows us that what we honor here on Earth is not what God honors.

    So many times people get hung up on what to give for an offering to God, and what to hold back for themselves. They look at that widow's offering and all they see is two cents.
    God looked at her offering and saw her heart, her trust, her devotion, and her faith.

    That is what Jesus applauded.
    He did so because Jesus Himself later followed suit, and gave Himself for us.
     
  9. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +10,730
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I would like to know exactly how that works?
    M-Bob
     
  10. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

    993
    +661
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    Sounds like false teaching prosperity gospel to me. Not today, Satan.
     
  11. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +2,277
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Many churches teach that we as Christians, under the New Covenant, are commanded to give a minimum of 10% of our income to our church. Others teach that preachers of these churches are turning the 10% tithe in the Old Testament into a monetary, legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant.

    I even once heard a Pastor make a challenge to his congregation to give 10% of their income for 90 days and if God does not bless them then he will give them their money back. upload_2019-12-31_5-5-50.gif

    In 2 Corinthians 9:5-7 we read: Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

    I don't see a "specific percentage" given anywhere for Christians "under the New Covenant," but I certainly believe in giving cheerfully and not just to our church. I also believe that everything we own belongs to God.

    Malachi 3:8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. The whole nation of Israel. *Malachi is written to Israel under the Old Covenant. Malachi 1:1 - The oracle of the word of the LORD to Israel through Malachi.
     
  12. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +967
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    I know of a closely related case where it "worked". A friend of mine decided to keep strict track of all his money and where it was going. He then realized how much he spend on crap things and decided some things needed to change. He could almost say it was like doubling his money.

    What I imagine what is at work is some people who begin to tithe for the first time start looking hard at what they're spending their money on and change how they use it. It's simple math with complicated human behavior.
     
  13. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member

    +5,413
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    You might look at Deuteronomy 14:22-29.

    See for yourself. What I see is the tithe is ten percent of the food which has been produced by agriculture. And this food is to be available to the needy so they may eat and be . . . "satisfied". I see this is not a welfare system thing, in which you regulate and dictate what "the widow" and "the stranger" and "the fatherless" eat. But they are to be "satisfied" (verse 29, here). Whoever this means, God means for the tithe to be eaten so widows and strangers and Levites and orphans are "satisfied"; so I would say God means they themselves decide if they have had enough!!!

    So, this tithing is not about what to do with money, really, but it is about what to do with God's people > God's precious possession. From this, I can see how Jesus is not mainly concerned about what we do with our material treasure, but how we relate with His people who are His own treasure.

    Deuteronomy 32:9

    And you can read 1 Timothy 2:1-4, about what our Apostle Paul says to do "first of all". He does not say and make a major point of telling us to tithe or what to do with money. What here does he say is "first of all"????

    Prayer for any and all people. What is the true money which makes God's thing happen - - - tithes from our work, or prayer in the Holy Spirit? Also we see how God's word is guaranteed to do all God pleases > Isaiah 55:11. So, in a way, God's word is His own real money which makes His thing happen! :)

    So, no matter how many times Jesus might talk about money, seeking first His kingdom, and prayer and His word, is what really matters.

    Another item about tithing is that tithing at times includes you who tithe > Deuteronomy 14:23 < you eat the tithe!!!

    So, robbing God can mean how ones take the tithe but do not use it for the people of God to be satisfied with food. Ones are using people to get tithes, instead of using tithes to feed God's needy people and people at the gathering of God's people. And robbing God can mean how ones bring their tithe but they are not joyful about giving it.

    Possibly, some number of people who push tithing are not, then, even talking about tithing which is meant and intended by what is written in the early scripture. So, instead of trying to disprove what isn't even what the Bible means, by tithing, make sure you pray and learn what God means and has you doing :) People of this world can take us on a side-show trip to squabbling about what isn't even in the circus, when we shouldn't even bother with the circus show, at all!!

    Jesus said the Pharisees were tithing and they were hypocrites.

    So, first of all is we seek God and His kingdom, and we relate with one another as our Father's family, so we are doing what He desires with His treasure ! ! ! :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  14. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

    +10,730
    United States
    Calvinist
    Married
    US-Republican
    True
    Since the fall man sure comes up with
    some crazy ideas.

    Leave it up to man and the devil
    to really mess things up.

    M-Bob
     
  15. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

    993
    +661
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
     
  16. GaveMeJoy

    GaveMeJoy Well-Known Member

    993
    +661
    United States
    Christian
    Divorced
    You are talking about basic budgeting which is not increasing your financial portfolio through Tithing. Anyone who has a desire to compile wealth on earth doesn’t get the point of this life IMO :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  17. TheDag

    TheDag I don't like titles

    +248
    Christian
    Single
    Sorry i don't know you so will ask. Are you deliberately or accidentally misrepresenting what SkyWriting said?
     
  18. TheDag

    TheDag I don't like titles

    +248
    Christian
    Single
    If you read the OT then you will find they gave far more than 10%. The 10% related to certain things but there were other required sacrifices and giving as well. So those quoting 10% are actually getting it wrong.

    I do believe God is faithful to those who give out of the right motives which is essentially because they want to.
     
  19. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

    +967
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    A Christian can compile wealth on Earth as long as it is NOT the one thing that they lack in following Jesus. Making money isn't automatically a sin, it depends on who you are in relationship to God. In the biblical book named after him, Job's issue with God wasn't his desire to compile wealth, in fact he practically doubled it after he saw his sin and repented of it.
     
  20. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

    +2,277
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Several years ago, I had temporarily attended a church in which the new Pastor there was obsessed with building a new mega church and he even handed out pledge cards for people to fill out so they can pledge to give extra money on a monthly basis over a three year period (above and beyond 10%) directly to the "moving forward" project to build this new mega church (that they didn't really need) and to this day have never built.

    More than a few people left that church because all that Pastor mainly talked about was money (primarily the 10% tithe) and building that new mega church. He would give slide shows on the screen of someone laying down and holding onto a balance beam, proclaiming, "I will give 2% but not 10% in order to beat the congregation over the head with guilt for not giving 10%.

    During one sermon, the Pastor even mentioned that a member of the church came into his office one day, somewhat irate and said that he is leaving that church because he is tired of hearing about money all the time and needs to find a church where he can go "deeper" in the Word. That Pastor went on to say to the congregation that the word "deeper" is a code word for "I'm not tithing 10%." The Pastor also mentioned that he checked the records and sure enough that member of the church was not giving 10% and some months gave nothing at all and then acted like, "good riddance to him!" :(
     
Loading...