I don't believe in the fire torment pit of hell.

[Ed Bana]

Hentenza

I other words you have no refutation and yet you call them lies without even as much as addressing what I am saying. Basically you believe what you believe with no knowledge of why you believe it other than mere appeal to emotion.

You place soo much faith in your heresies of damning billions and your bias religious seminaries who have taught you their bias interpretation of the Greek and Hebrew that you cannot see these verses were misinterpreted.

Why should I believe a single interpretation of scripture from you who does not have the discernment to see an error. You even agreed there was error you told us all does not matter because you have had the privilege of studying Greek and Hebrew in your bias cemeteries I mean seminary (same thing) .

No. I stand on the truth of scripture. I have refuted every verse that you have attempted to use to back up your error and all you do is continue to ignore the refutations just as Eby does. There is no meat in your argument. [/font]

This to is a lie.

That is all you know is milk. You need spiritual teeth to chew on spiritual meat and all you have is religious rotten teeth. How often have I actually showed you something in scripture and you refuse to even address it. Example the death killed by death.


Here is another question. Do they point out these errors in your seminary or these multiple Bible references, or do they tell you there is no errors in the Bible and the Bible is inerrant?????

What a laugh. I just showed you four or five example of where there were obviously errors in the Bible which you even agreed were errors. Show I give you the post? There are all kinds of errors in the Bible, easter and hell. Etc.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (KJV)

How much of what you have been taught is bias just like these errors we have discovered .

You just admitted there were errors.

Yes we all have our bias. My bias is in the ultimate salvation of all people. Your bias is in the heresy believe false prophets and false teachers teach that billions will be damned forever and ever and that God just plane ran out of mercy..

How many verses and post have you so far refuse to look at to defend these lies. You need to do some digging outside of your preconceived bias religious system God’s Word calls Babylon and search for the truth in this matter. You have already admitted the error and these errors all add up to this human made stew which ingredients are full of lies. But can you not see it? Let alone admit it.

one lie is too many when it comes to God's Word.
　
　
2Th 2:11
(ALT) And for this reason God will send to them a supernatural working of deception, for them to believe the lie,

I am waiting for you to support your extrabiblical teaching. Until then please apply the above to yourself.

So far the above fits you.

 

[Soulgazer]

lol You are real flesh just like the rest of us (the error of gnostism was refuted centuries ago) and there is no sin to believe the truth of the divine creation. What is absurd is to remove God from His creation. The mainly atheistic theory of evolution brazenly and erroneously makes naturalism the priori by which ALL scientific knowledge is interpreted which effectively removes God. It seems that you prefer to be "of this world".

You have all ready proven you believe in lies. Are you sure you wish to keep going?

 

[Soulgazer]

Didn't expect a quick reply and since I haven't left yet I can respond. I've never read such as that mythology. Supreme God vs Creation God? :o

It was a common teaching among early Christians. The Hypostasis of the Archons -- The Nag Hammadi Library

Galileo went against the work of Aristotle which was the beliefs held by Rome and the Pope so yes they oppressed Galileo but he himself was not antichrist. He reasoned against Aristotle but he went against reason at times. So Charles Darwin was doin the work of God? Seriously?

Seriously.

CF of gospel of John? CF Luke. What? :o
Got an actual Scripture? If God was so pro -worldly education of man then Christ would have chosen highly educated to be apostles. Those mere fishermen just couldn't cut it. Rejection of education is evil ?
Seriously?

Even if the education is twisted by evil men?

The fact that they could write, meant that they were highly educated. The common man could not. Everybody has to make a living, and if Peter could afford a boat, then he was doing better than most. What man is better than another? Who is good? The nations that reject education remain the poorest and the worst places to live.

we will just have to agree to disagree...

I hope not. I hope you come around to reason, for ignorance is described in our text as the cause of all evil. Yes I know you will say "Satan". But if God is Truth, then Satan is Ignorance. There can be know deception without ignorance.

Your verses: John:
[SIZE=-1]9:41[/SIZE]Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye would have no sin: but now ye say, We see: your sin remaineth.

Luke 6:43 43 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

 

[Hentenza]

You have all ready proven you believe in lies. Are you sure you wish to keep going?

I stand by every word I've written.

 

[Soulgazer]

I stand by every word I've written.

So didn't the Pharisee.

 

[Hentenza]

Hentenza



You place soo much faith in your heresies of damning billions and your bias religious seminaries who have taught you their bias interpretation of the Greek and Hebrew that you cannot see these verses were misinterpreted. <snip>

Your opinion means nothing. Refute what I have written instead. All of these ad homs that you keep throwing my way just exemplify that you are way out of your league. You accuse me of lies but you have no answer to my posts. You accuse me of being a false teacher but you can't address what I have written. If you have not studied this material then you have no clue what the basis for your belief is. Instead you are just following heretics like Eby.

Have you ever even considered that what you believe could be wrong? I've studied so that I could defend my faith in season and out of season as the scriptures command of us but it seems that you have not.

 

[Hentenza]

So didn't the Pharisee.

I am not a pharisee.

 

[Hentenza]

The fact that they could write, meant that they were highly educated.

Or that they dictated it to someone to write like Jeremiah did.

Everybody has to make a living, and if Peter could afford a boat, then he was doing better than most.

Or peter could have constructed his own boat which was quite common in those days.

What man is better than another? Who is good? The nations that reject education remain the poorest and the worst places to live.I hope not. I hope you come around to reason, for ignorance is described in our text as the cause of all evil. Yes I know you will say "Satan". But if God is Truth, then Satan is Ignorance.

Who is rejecting education? I have degrees in electrical engineering, a masters in engineering, and am working towards a master in biblical studies. Many creationists have degrees, many have advanced degrees. Your argument is nothing more than a strawman.

There can be know deception without ignorance.

The fact that you have fallen into the errors of gnostism and blind faith in evolution proves that you have been deceived. I have read enough of your posts to know that you are not ignorant so how do you explain your deception?

Your verses: John:
[SIZE=-1]9:41[/SIZE]Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye would have no sin: but now ye say, We see: your sin remaineth.

Is the context of this verse about believing in the ever shifting scientific theories or about discerning who the son of man is?

Luke 6:43 43 “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

This verse doesn't help your argument either.

 

[Soulgazer]

Or that they dictated it to someone to write like Jeremiah did.
Or peter could have constructed his own boat which was quite common in those days.
Who is rejecting education? I have degrees in electrical engineering, a masters in engineering, and am working towards a master in biblical studies. Many creationists have degrees, many have advanced degrees. Your argument is nothing more than a strawman.
The fact that you have fallen into the errors of gnostism and blind faith in evolution proves that you have been deceived. I have read enough of your posts to know that you are not ignorant so how do you explain your deception?
Is the context of this verse about believing in the ever shifting scientific theories or about discerning who the son of man is?
This verse doesn't help your argument either.

I am not the one arguing that a Jewish fable is historical fact.
My evidence is well documented, yours is from fringe kooks.

 

[Hentenza]

I am not the one arguing that a Jewish fable is historical fact.

This is the same argument that atheists use.

My evidence is well documented, yours is from fringe kooks.

Your evidence is ever shifting, carried around by the winds, however, the bible stands.

 

[Ed Bana]

I have answered every post you have put out there. If anyone has been proven wrong it is you.

I can't even trust you.

How many times have you refused to even answer my post (death killed by death)

You tell us that the all believers should be like you and learn Greek and there would not be a problem with theses errors Then a next thing you tell us all is there is no errors. And the Bible is inerrant.

I am out of your league when it come to the Greek and the Hebrew but spiritually speaking you are a new born babe and all you know is the milk of God’s Word.

You are right you are not a Pharisee. You are a religious-see; Jews were Pharisees and also knew the Hebrew and Greek I am sure better then you.
&#12288;

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

No I do not accuse you. God's Word does............. If you have a problem being a false teacher/prophet take it up with 2

Peter 2:1
This is why you are a false prophets and false teachers that teach heresies of damning billions. Notice I quote God’s Word and do not give opinion based on your religious logic,

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):

KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

Eby is one of many anointed men I have studied. Notice the word anointed not like some self proclaim Bible scholar who has no clue.

Well you sure are doing a lousy job defending your false faith that condemns billions.

Your opinion means nothing. Refute what I have written instead. All of these ad homs that you keep throwing my way just exemplify that you are way out of your league. You accuse me of lies but you have no answer to my posts. You accuse me of being a false teacher but you can't address what I have written. If you have not studied this material then you have no clue what the basis for your belief is. Instead you are just following heretics like Eby.

Have you ever even considered that what you believe could be wrong? I've studied so that I could defend my faith in season and out of season as the scriptures command of us but it seems that you have not.

 

[Hentenza]

I have answered every post you have put out there. If anyone has been proven wrong it is you.

No you have not. You have danced around them spewing nothing but ad homs.

I can't even trust you.

There. You just proved my point.

How many times have you refused to even answer my post (death killed by death)

Zero.

You tell us that the all believers should be like you and learn Greek and there would not be a problem with theses errors Then a next thing you tell us all is there is no errors. And the Bible is inerrant.

The original autographs are inerrant. Translations do have copyist errors but are minimal considering the totality of scripture.

I am out of your league when it come to the Greek and the Hebrew but spiritually speaking you are a new born babe and all you know is the milk of God’s Word.

Nah. If you can't read and discern scripture then how can you be mature in Christ?

You are right you are not a Pharisee. You are a religious-see; Jews were Pharisees and also knew the Hebrew and Greek I am sure better then you.

Yep. They knew Hebrew much better then me and yet, they interpreted by their oral traditions.
&#12288;

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

No I do not accuse you. God's Word does............. If you have a problem being a false teacher/prophet take it up with 2

Actually the word of God does not teach what you believe so what are you going to do about that?

<snip>
Eby is one of many anointed men I have studied. Notice the word anointed not like some self proclaim Bible scholar who has no clue.

Eby is a heretic and false teacher. No one has anointed him but himself. His arguments are amateurish and devoid of biblical proof.

 

[Ed Bana]

Here it is a third time.

Address it.

​

The second death is death killed by death
There are three deaths in the Bible.
Physical death which all men understand.

Dead in trespasses and sin (Eph. 2:1 ) which I call spiritual death or first death.

Second death. Which is first death killed by the second death.

The fourth horse, the Pale Horse. "And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, come and see. And I looked, and lo a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth" (Rev. 6:7-8).

There is a special significance to be attached to the description of the fourth horseman -- he whose name is Death -- and Hell followed with him. Death and Hell are specially linked in the Revelation. And since Christ came and abolished death (II Tim. 1:10) and destroyed him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Heb. 2:14), He now boldly proclaims: "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH" (Rev. 1:18). And since the Christ now possesses both hell and death neither of them ride anywhere except by His authority!

Now let us UNDERSTAND! This horse is given power over the fourth part of the earth-realm, to kill with the sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

This "fourth part of the earth" is clearly that portion of earthiness not already dealt with by the three preceding horses. It bespeaks of the conclusion, consummation and termination of the process. It means the final subjugation and destruction of everything within us that is contrary to HIS life and kingdom. And all the instruments necessary to accomplish this are in His hands and at His command.
&#12288;
To kill with DEATH

There is an amazing and significant statement in the passage that we do not want to miss. "And power was given unto Him to kill...with death."!

How does one kill with death?

What can this cryptic statement mean?

To kill with death means a death by death. Later on in the book of Revelation the same truth is presented thus: "Death and hell were cast into the lake of Fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20:14). Now let us turn this around for clarity. "The second death IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire." Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated. What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire!

"Our God is a consuming fire.

" This fact is extremely IMPORTANT. The second death is not merely the lake of fire. Nor is the second death men being tortured forever in the lake of fire.

The Holy Spirit has made it very simple and plain. The second death is the first death and hell CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.

That is the Holy Spirit's definition, not mine.

Can we now open the eyes of our understanding to see that everything cast into the lake of fire pertains to DEATH? Death itself is cast into the lake of fire. Hell, the realm of the dead, is cast into the lake of fire. And those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, i.e. those who are dead, in trespasses and in sins, who inhabit hell, are cast into the lake of fire.

That is the end of death and hell and sin and sinners, for God shall destroy the whole realm of death in the lake of fire.

He shall burn up hell in the lake of fire, He shall destroy death in the lake of fire, and He shall consume sin in the lake of fire.

How I long to see the end of sin and death and hell! The time is coming, praise His name! God's Kingdom shall rule over all and God Himself shall be All-in-all. There shall be neither sin, nor sinners, nor death, nor hell

It is clear that God does not destroy men in the lake of fire, nowhere does it say that, for that would be a contradiction of terms. How can you destroy death by creating death?

How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape?

Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire -- it is sin and death and hell that are destroyed. "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). "And there shall be no more death: for the former things are passed away" (Rev. 21:4). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH! "And power was given unto them to kill...with death. " 0, the wonder of it!

&#12288;

 

[Ed Bana]

No you have not. You have danced around them spewing nothing but ad homs.

Example please?

There. You just proved my point.

You the one admitting there are errors and then tuning around and telling us God's Word is inerrant.

Zero.

That is right. That is why I reposted it.

The original autographs are inerrant. Translations do have copyist errors but are minimal considering the totality of scripture.

That has always been my point but I disagree these error are minimal. Words like hell, eternal, easter are not minor errors they are a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word

Nah. If you can't read and discern scripture then how can you be mature in Christ?

Big difference between being in Christ and Christ with in you. Your search for truth is based on your religion and not seeking truth which is spiritual. You see Christ can be in us, or we can be in Christ. To be in Christ means you are totally swallowed up in Christ. Take a bottle of water, yes the bottle of water is full of water like Christ being in us, but is not the same as that bottle of water which is full of water (Christ) is thrown in a pool of water. Now that bottle of water is no longer Christ just with in, but it is now totally swallowed up by Christ. Do you see the difference between Christ being in us and we being in Christ.

Yep. They knew Hebrew much better then me and yet, they interpreted by their oral traditions.
&#12288;

And you don't?

Actually the word of God does not teach what you believe so what are you going to do about that?

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Eby is a heretic and false teacher. No one has anointed him but himself. His arguments are amateurish and devoid of biblical proof.

You call Eby a heretic with your bias religious opinion. God's Word calls you a heretic and this is not my opinion.

 

[Soulgazer]

This is the same argument that atheists use.
Your evidence is ever shifting, carried around by the winds, however, the bible stands.

The fact that both atheists and Christians know that Genesis is a Jewish fable should be wafting coffee fumes into your nostrils.
You believe that Jesus is dead? I believe that He is alive, He is directing the Spirit of Truth to unveil material reality to dissolve silly superstitions that were carried on by the devil from the bronze age.

Yeah, that's right. Darwin was given a revelation while on the island of Galapagos. It was the seeds of a new paradigm that has led science and ultimately medicine forward. Christ is alive and well, despite your unyielding worship of His Epitaph.

Christ warned us He was a two edged sword. Here you are getting your arguments chopped out from under you by the sword of Truth, and what do you do?

 

[LutheranMafia]

No it isn't and man did not evolve. You are simply listening to what the mostly atheistic scientific community are feeding you. Most of the same data that scientist use to support evolution also supports a creator. At the end of the day is by which framework one examines the data. One mainly atheistic group interprets it by a strictly naturalistic view (actually a priori) while others like myself do not remove God from His creation.

The vast majority of scientists today are theistists, outside of Communist countries of course.

No it does not. The creation account in Genesis is historical narrative.

You really lost me here. I do not believe that God created a lie that only appears to be enormously old. I do not see God as the cosmic liar.

 

[LutheranMafia]

Matthew 10:28 speaks of soul death, but not spirit death. Jude 1:12 speaks of soul death (the second death) while Jude 1:13 talks about the spirit of the damned wandering in nether gloom for eternity.

...twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness (nether gloom) has been reserved forever.
Jude 1:12-13
​

You sure do not give us much to see what you are speaing of? How about posting the verses and explain yourself?

Man, you can blather on and on with dozens of 100 line messages a day and yet you can't look up two short passages for yourself, one of which is already quoted in my message! I quoted Jude 1:12-13 in my previous message, so here is Matthew 10:28 which you are to lazy to lookup for yourself:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

I had to add the Matthew 10:28 at the bottom even though it should have been obvious from the context what verse I was quoting, since you failed to figure out that I was quoting Jude 1:12-13 in my previous post, even though I stated that was what I was quoting. You are in such a haste with your post that you can't take the slightest bit of care. You are a hack, Ed.

I don't know how Hentenza has the patience to respond to almost everything you write. You spew, you do not reason. You blather on and on and on without being able to make a focused argument, so it is impossible to counter what you say. Only a focused argument can be refuted. An unfocused argument like yours is like trying to refute a sleazy used car salesman. You ramble on so much that you are impossible to pin down. How about sticking to one topic at a time rather than going on about 10 different things at once and making each one of your posts a 100 line tirade?

Let's start with the second death, and stick exclusively to the second death, don't bring in umpty dozen other things so that the debate quickly degenerates into pure spew.

The second death is the death of the soul. You statement that the 2nd death is the death of death only addresses one verse and completely ignores a half dozen other verses that speak of soul death. That seems to me to be your whole approach to Bible study, to take one meaning out of context and try to apply it universally. In this case, you are taking Revelation 20:14 as the entire meaning of 2nd death and ignoring all other usages of the term.

1. Revelation 2:11
   He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.'
2. Revelation 20:6
   Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
   
3. Revelation 21:8
   But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Now, if the second death is the death of death, a good thing, then why does it say that the second death will have no power over good people? By taking the term out of context you have turned the meaning of the term on it's head. The second death is a bad thing, it is the death of the soul.

 

[LutheranMafia]

This is the same argument that atheists use.

I have to agree with Hentenza here. Calling the Genesis account of creation a "fable" is to dismiss the deep spiritual meaning that it has. I don't believe that it is literally true, but I don't think that it is "untrue" either. Good myths are ripe with archetypal meaning. And very quickly it becomes literally true.

For example, I think that the giants in Genesis 6:4 who were attracted to the daughters of men, is describing Neanderthals who are estimated to have been 4 times as strong as we are today. Genesis 6:4 delineates how they came to be subsumed by our species, since their males were attracted to our females, that means that we ended up with Neanderthal Y chromosomes but Cromagnon X chromosomes, with the Neanderthal X chromosomes being wiped out by everyone's lack of interest in butch Neanderthal women.

 

[Ed Bana]

Man, you can blather on and on with dozens of 100 line messages a day and yet you can't look up two short passages for yourself, one of which is already quoted in my message! I quoted Jude 1:12-13 in my previous message, so here is Matthew 10:28 which you are to lazy to lookup for yourself:

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28
​

I am far from lazy when it comes to looking up scripture but your post are so full of personal attacks I usually do not waist me time reading them.

I had to add the Matthew 10:28 at the bottom even though it should have been obvious from the context what verse I was quoting, since you failed to figure out that I was quoting Jude 1:12-13 in my previous post, even though I stated that was what I was quoting. You are in such a haste with your post that you can't take the slightest bit of care. You are a hack, Ed.

More personal attacks.

I don't know how Hentenza has the patience to respond to almost everything you write. You spew, you do not reason. You blather on and on and on without being able to make a focused argument, so it is impossible to counter what you say. Only a focused argument can be refuted. An unfocused argument like yours is like trying to refute a sleazy used car salesman. You ramble on so much that you are impossible to pin down. How about sticking to one topic at a time rather than going on about 10 different things at once and making each one of your posts a 100 line tirade?

More personal attacks.

Let's start with the second death, and stick exclusively to the second death, don't bring in umpty dozen other things so that the debate quickly degenerates into pure spew.

More personal attacks.

The second death is the death of the soul.

Finally a real question. But why is the second death the death of the soul?

You statement that the 2nd death is the death of death only addresses one verse and completely ignores a half dozen other verses that speak of soul death.

This is not true. We were addressing the second death. You want to bring up other issues we will discuss other issues. One at a time.

That seems to me to be your whole approach to Bible study, to take one meaning out of context and try to apply it universally.

Please how about some examples seeing you are the one pointing fingers here.

In this case, you are taking Revelation 20:14 as the entire meaning of 2nd death and ignoring all other usages of the term.


Revelation 2:11

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.'

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

I have addressed this verse many times. The overcomers are God's elect. Why are they not going to be hurt by the second death?

Revelation 21:8


But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Now, if the second death is the death of death, a good thing, then why does it say that the second death will have no power over good people? By taking the term out of context you have turned the meaning of the term on it's head. The second death is a bad thing, it is the death of the soul.

No the second death is a spirtual thing. It will kill death to all thouse who are still under the power of the death of the soul. When Adam died we all died to the realm of God. The second death will kill all of the first death. In the end


1 Cor 15:24-28
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


I like the Amplified which declares. “Everything to everyone”

 

[Soulgazer]

I have to agree with Hentenza here. Calling the Genesis account of creation a "fable" is to dismiss the deep spiritual meaning that it has. I don't believe that it is literally true, but I don't think that it is "untrue" either. Good myths are ripe with archetypal meaning. And very quickly it becomes literally true.

For example, I think that the giants in Genesis 6:4 who were attracted to the daughters of men, is describing Neanderthals who are estimated to have been 4 times as strong as we are today. Genesis 6:4 delineates how they came to be subsumed by our species, since their males were attracted to our females, that means that we ended up with Neanderthal Y chromosomes but Cromagnon X chromosomes, with the Neanderthal X chromosomes being wiped out by everyone's lack of interest in butch Neanderthal women.

I actually agree with you. However, I tried explaining the mythological aspects before, and got no where. I too feel that the Neanderthal were incorporated into the legend,, based on the location of the first intersection of the species north of Palestine. I don't know what a Neanderthal woman looked like, but I would think a hairy chested woman with a beard might not appeal to some Neanderthal men