I did something terrible

[renniks]

It's based on scripture and the early church. The church fathers are seen as a cornerstone in many ways. It's not relative, it's rather normative. They were under special grace of the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, well, I've read a lot of the early church fathers on theology. They disagree on tons of stuff. How can they be infallible if they can't even agree on doctrine?

 

[AMM]

Yeah, well, I've read a lot of the early church fathers on theology. They disagree on tons of stuff. How can they be infallible if they can't even agree on doctrine?

they aren't infallible - the saints can and do err at times

but that doesn't mean that they weren't guided and illumined by the Holy Spirit

 

[renniks]

they aren't infallible - the saints can and do err at times

but that doesn't mean that they weren't guided and illumined by the Holy Spirit

Like I said, imperfect human beings with imperfect doctrine.

 

[SingularityOne]

Like I said, imperfect human beings with imperfect doctrine.

It’s the consensus of the Saints that we set as our standard, not any particular saint. The Holy Spirit is infallible, not any one saint (even though they are guided by the Holy Spirit).

 

[ArmyMatt]

Because we are imperfect human beings.

then that's a pretty weak God if He can't keep His Church theologically pure because of us.

 

[ArmyMatt]

"Orthodoxy is a completely different coin."

that wasn't what I meant when I posted that if you read the discussion.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My guess is that you're going to be called arrogant within a few more posts. It usually goes down that way...
To reject the paradigm of relativism is equal to being stubborn and arrogant in the eyes of the vast majority of people in the western world.

I have some first hand experience with this, unfortunately.

same here, whatevs

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, well, I've read a lot of the early church fathers on theology. They disagree on tons of stuff. How can they be infallible if they can't even agree on doctrine?

really? name them and proof of their errors.

 

[dzheremi]

I am just a sinner saved by grace... I will gladly take communion with anyone who trusts Christ for thier salvation. None of us have perfect theology.

The people here may not believe that I or my communion hold to it, but we do also say that Orthodox theology is perfect. It really is, as it is given to us by God (I could post here the portion of the Agpeya titled "The Faith of the Church", wherein we affirm that the Holy Spirit Himself taught us the correct belief and worship of the Holy Trinity, but alas this is the wrong board for it; but it is there). There is nothing to be added or subtracted from it. It is whole and complete without any outsider's input.

It is also not to any Orthodox person's credit that Orthodoxy is true and perfect, though the saints are recognized as particularly strong examples of its embodiment, and therefore worthy of veneration and to be held up as examples to us who wish to live as they have, illumined by the indwelling of God.

 

[Barney2.0]

Yeah, well, I've read a lot of the early church fathers on theology. They disagree on tons of stuff. How can they be infallible if they can't even agree on doctrine?

They disagreed on minor things not major doctrines, Church Fathers aren’t infallible either, is there any Church Father who advocated Sola Scriptura which Protestantism demands we accept as a matter of salvation? Didn’t think so. I’ve read a lot of the Church Fathers, well I wouldn’t actually say a lot, but I’ve read enough to know that there’s a continuity in the Church Fathers that goes back to the early Church and extends to our present time a continuity on doctrine thayyou won’t find in virtuality any other faith, and the problem is once your deep into their writings, actually if you even read basic stuff about them then you can’t pretty much remain Latin or any of its break away Churches in the form of Protestantism and its own break aways.

 

[renniks]

then that's a pretty weak God if He can't keep His Church theologically pure because of us.

Maybe he is more concerned with having a church that is truly United. You know, all that " They will know us by our love." Stuff.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Maybe he is more concerned with having a church that is truly United. You know, all that " They will know us by our love." Stuff.

the Church is truly united. there are just a lot of folks who aren't in it even though they believe in Christ because their vision of Christ is lacking or distorted.

you can't be truly united in love if you aren't also lovingly united in Truth.

 

[renniks]

the Church is truly united.

Could have fooled me. Unless you are only talking about your church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could have fooled me. Unless you are only talking about your church.

I am. a divided Church is a contradiction in terms. there is no such thing as a divided Church.

 

[renniks]

I am. a divided Church is a contradiction in terms. there is no such thing as a divided Church.

So everybody but your church is bound for hell?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So everybody but your church is bound for hell?

no.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

You gotta be kidding me...
It's so stupid! Each and every time some nimrod goes down this road...
When does it end?!

 

[dzheremi]

Never. It never ends.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Never. It never ends.

nope. this the assumption that because someone is in hell just because they aren't Orthodox in this life makes me wonder if folks read Job, who was righteous, but fifth from Abraham NOT in the covenant.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You gotta be kidding me...
It's so stupid! Each and every time some nimrod goes down this road...
When does it end?!

That's why I stated (several times I believe) that we don't judge others and we are not condemning anyone as "unsaved". It goes completely against Orthodox thinking that I have seen to do that.

But it seems like that's always what people "hear".

It can be very typical. It's the logical conclusion based on more contemporary western theology (as closely as I can identify the source). It always goes down that path for some.