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I despise political parties.

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by RickardoHolmes, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. RickardoHolmes

    RickardoHolmes Active Member

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    Over the years, I have watched George Washington's warnings and advice come to fruition in regards to political party lines. The father of our country warned , in his farewell speech from his last term as president, to beware the negative impact political parties could have on the nation.

    "However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

    FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796

    It is a shame that we have reached a point that every issue has to be divided over party lines and partisan politics at the expense of the nation. Old George must be turning over in his grave.

    This great nation started in the 1700s as a bold
    experiment in culture and government. Never before had a nation set out to form a government without a monarch, without an absolute leader, but with checks and balances and branches to maintain that. The idea of a "president" elected by the citizens for 4 years was unheard of at the time, especially since that presidential office would have with it responsibilities as well as checks and balances

    Along came political parties, people who claim, by words or actions "I am a republican/democrat first and an American second." I recently heard someone say that she would never be friends with someone who was not republican, and another say that he hated democrats. My thought is that these people likely hate
    themselves first, and have found a political party which allows them to foster, and encourages that hatred. In fact, the top agenda for both major parties in this nation seems to be first and foremost, opposition to the Other Party !

    I have caught a lot of hate on this and other forums for
    saying that I am an American first. (Not Christian first, not Democrat first, not Republican first...etc etc ad nauseum) I want what is best for our country, and decisions must be made to serve the best long term interests on the country. I am an American first and foremost above all else.

    The recent government mishandling of the Covid
    pandemic was a sad example of political issues interfering with a community crisis. The Covid crisis was , and still is, a medical and community health problem. It is/was not a hoax, it is/was not germ warfare, and it certainly WAS NOT a political crisis, BUT That is the first direction it took. The problem was very quickly turned into a political issue. Playing Party politics and games as well as poor leadership across the board delayed testing, vaccines and treatment which cost some 600,000 of my countrymen and women their lives. Turning a health crisis into a political crisis cost lives. And to party leaders, who want to blame the other side but fail to work across party lines, we the people have to suffer.

    I have removed my designation from my voters registration card as to which party I support. While little will likely change, except the channels I am watching on TV or the forums I read, the American flag still flies over my house.
     
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  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    If you think about it, the best cure for us believers in relation to partisan political parties, would be to actually be "Christian first" -- because then political party isn't first at all (and will tend to become less important over time to the Christian, since political party is worldly).

    Consider: "America first" was effectively used as a partisan rallying cry (as recently used by Trump).

    So, the cure is to be "Christian first, and last."
    (that was the 1 thing to change in your otherwise great post)

    Love that great quote from Washington! He said some good things.
     
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  3. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    I honestly don't mean any sort of disrespect with this question, but would you go into a "sports/cooking/reading etc." type of forum and inform everyone in there that you "despise all sports/cooking/reading etc."?
    tulc(is just curious)
     
  4. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    You seem to be conflating politics with political parties in your analogy. I would certainly go into a sports forum and inform everyone there I despised the New England Patriots or a cooking forum and inform them I despise Thai food or a reading forum and tell them I despise the writing of Marx and Engels. IMO despising political parties is a most apt subject and a very rational thing to do. Politics would be so much better without them.
     
  5. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Anti-Democratic Monarchist

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    When it comes to observing democratic politics I despise the whole machine of the democratic liberal system. Christians should ask themselves, whether or not it is worth it to give these systems legitimacy by participating so much in them or at all.
     
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  6. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    a) By removing your designation from your voter's registration card you have made it impossible to vote in any primary election.
    b) Your analogy is poor. If you would go into a sports forum and inform everyone there you despised all professional football teams you would be "in for it". Similarly with your other examples.

    There will always be political parties, as there will always be more two or more sides to every issue.
     
  7. RickardoHolmes

    RickardoHolmes Active Member

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    Yes but when the two or more sides delay or outright prevent a problem from being solved, or exist in a way that benefits only one side , then something is incorrect.

    I got tired of voting in the primary I used to go do that, even went to a state convention as a delegate once. Not my area of interest anymore.
     
  8. RickardoHolmes

    RickardoHolmes Active Member

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    Good Points.

    We cannot however legally say "Christian first" because many good people in our nation are not Christians, but they are still Americans. We also have strict laws in the constitution which prohibit congress (the ones who make the laws) from passing any law which favors or limits a religion.

    BUT such is the problem with language.

    We could say "People first" but that makes me sound like a communist, which I am not. I do love people though and want to see the people's needs taken care of, including the opportunity for someone in America to work, have a business, fulfill their dreams and aspirations. That is the part of the "American Dream" that must be kept alive.

    I think the intent the last president said about "America First" was taken in the intent of "Win/Lose" and at least that is how I saw it. America will succeed at the cost of everyone else......Not a good political or economic policy

    America will THRIVE as leaders with a win/win approach to politics.

    I know that since I have adopted a Win/Win approach to life, I am so much better off...not just financially, but psychologically and spiritually too.

    But again, the problem is my philosophy is limited by language, and words, and my intent may not be read by anyone else as the way it was intended by the writer.

    In the end, we must love our neighbors, ourselves, and remember

    Let all that you do be done in love. – 1 Corinthians 16:14
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  9. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Anti-Democratic Monarchist

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    Why is this a reason to not consider yourself a Christian first? Should Christians in the USSR have considered themselves Soviets before being Christian?
     
  10. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Do you really think that a political party would ever exist in a way that benefits the opposition party? Get real.
     
  11. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    Perhaps. On the other hand in the end, even so called "independents" tend to side with one Party or the other, because they can't really get something accomplished without their support.
    True, but would you go to a New England Patriots forum and inform everyone how much you despise that team? Or how much you dislike Thai food on a Thai food forum? Still, you do bring up a good point that politics is much broader than just political Parties.

    maybe.

    I'm not real sure that statement is true, simply because I have a hard time picturing what politics would look like without there being some form of political parties. Heck, even the early Church tended to form "parties", which gave Paul the Apostle a lot of things to write about in all those letters he wrote.
    tulc(is actually a pretty big fan of Thai food)
     
  12. RickardoHolmes

    RickardoHolmes Active Member

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    That is a good point about the formation of the early church, wherein divisions and opinions were taking shape.

    I cannot stand the New England Patriots either, but using the term "I hate the Patriots" which I do...it is not a true hatred, I do not wish them ill or anything, but I do enjoy watching them lose, and they have been caught cheating in what is supposed to be a legitimate sport. They are about my least favorite team.

    I do love Thai food. our local Buddhist temple is Thai and they serve the most delicious Thai food there. I have become a fan of the cuisine. But then again I like to eat anyway.

    AS for opposing views, yes political parties do that, but when they let their conflict negatively impact the nation, that is my problem. I mean Catholics and Episcopalians have held different views about transubstantiation for centuries, but that does not impact the ability of one to enjoy communion. BUT if they both got together and said "NO MORE COMMUNION FOR ANYONE UNTIL WE WORK THIS OUT" That would be awful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  13. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    I think your analogy is closer than tulc's . tulc is implying that politics equals political parties. Your analogy is much more apt. So is mine. The general forum is politics not political parties therefore to say one despises political parties in order to spur discussion of them is certainly a rational dthing to do within the framework of the larger topic of politics in general.

    By having a party affiliation you are enabling the election of corrupt politicians who place their party's power above the welfare of the country. The only reason it is not possible for independents to vote in a primary in some states is that political parties have gamed the system so that people that find those parties despicable must still affiliate with them or lose the ability to participate in selecting candidates. The rules could just as easily be changed so that there was a primary slate of unaffiliated candidates from which to chose from but that would mean the two parties would no longer be able to assure that they kept their stranglehold on government power. I refuse to be manipulated into aligning with people whose sole goal ( maintaining their own political power) I find offensive.
     
  14. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    I have no problem with like minded people banding together to accomplish a political goal. The problem I have with the current political parties, and pretty much any long term association in politics, is that the goal they band together to achieve above all else is the maintenance of their own political power even if that is to the detriment of the country and society as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
  15. Brihaha

    Brihaha Member

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    I believe our American electorate shares some blame for the dismal state of politics in America today. We are tasked with holding our representatives in DC accountable for their actions. We insist on voting incumbents back into office even though they have proved they aren't interested in working for our needs. If we united as one electorate we could find our power in our republic of the people, for the people and by the people. We could impose term limits so our representatives understand their time is limited. Maybe they would actually work for our needs if they knew we would hold them responsible for a change! Reelecting incumbents has regressed America's growth when we need progress. A change of faces is certainly in order in congress today.
     
  16. iarwain

    iarwain Newbie

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    I think one major reason this happens is because most of the population doesn't bother to pay attention. The people who do pay attention are in the minority. This is why I've never cared for this idea that everybody needs to vote. Everyone has the right to vote, but if they're idiots they're just diluting the votes of people who know what they're talking about.

    Most people who vote probably don't even know the name of their representatives, let alone what their voting record is.
     
  17. Thomas White

    Thomas White Well-Known Member

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    This post is the problem. People think our status quo is how it has always been. That is far from the truth. The parties are meant to work together, not against one another.
     
  18. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    The individual representatives are meant to work for the betterment of the country and society. They may have different views on how to do that on any particular issue. Those individual representatives, whose loyalty was meant to be to their constituents have become representatives of political parties instead of the voters that put them in place. Their loyalty to their party takes precedence over all else and when one of them opposes the party line on an issue in order to actually represent their constituents they are punished for it. The political parties have complete control of the electoral system and allow voters the chance to elect those the party picks. Those elected within such a system are naturally beholden more to their party than to those voters. And we see what happens to anyone that finds a way to circumvent that system.
     
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