I can't understand preterism

[Rubiks]

It seems so silly. Why would John prophesize about things that had already happened by the time the book was written?

 

[Interplanner]

Did he?

 

[Biblewriter]

Did he?

Only if every ancient historical source that is considered reliable was correct about when it was written.

 

[AJCServant]

Originally Posted by Interplanner

All the Thess material should be read in light of the DofJ. The 2nd coming was expected right after it, but allowed to be delayed.
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Originally Posted by AJCServant

Hi all,
and Hi again Interplanner,

Valid points that so many refuse to, or can not "see" for some spiritual reasons, that cause many doctrines- of- men to become used by Beelzebub to steal, kill, and destroy Jesus' inheritances throughout the earth, as he compels many "religious" and unlearned people to be spiritually indolent towards God's plights in destroying the works of the Devil in the earth - I think.

Will anyone rise up and stand in the gap with me for our nations to work to see that Zechariah 14:10 does not occur before 2Peter 2 is to be fulfilled by The Prince of Peace Himself in a surgical and orderly way, and would thereby only be done after we are "all"
[*] evacuated for a short season?


More called-out "believers" truly need to become holy [+] as our God is holy for this to occur - I think.

[+: Holiness defined via scripture is - - "set apart for service" to "all" of mankind, and the Trinity does this without favoritism so that eventually 1 John 3:8b would be fulfilled in the earth as more "believers" would become "Holy" disciples of Jesus.]

Originally Posted by AJCServant

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So I encourage you to "worship" God with your life and He will make His presence known in a deeper more relational and covenantal way every day you will be in His service during your short sojourn here.

I hope I have encouraged some of you a little today and whoever might someday read this post in the future.

God bless.

Into Jesus' love - we should "all" put our trust eternally,
AJCServant
John 10 & 15 & 17 & Revelation 21
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*: Colossians 1:20 - - And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, OR things in heaven.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]+: 1 John 3:8b - - [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
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Marana tha, INSHALLAH, Amen.
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[BABerean2]

If you want to understand Full Preterism do a little research on "Council of Trent' also "Counterreformation" and the Jesuit "Luis Alcazar".

That would give you a good place to start on this false doctrine.

 

[Interplanner]

The same research will also explain the rebirth of futurism in a way that is very much like used today, Ribera's defense of the Pope.

But back to the OP. Most Christians today are given a treatment of Mt24 (and by extension most of the NT) that says it is incredibly relevant because all the "signs" in Mt 24 are "happening today like never before." For many believers, all their confidence in the Bible sets upon this.

There are two problems:
1, the overall development of the drama of the gospel accounts would lead us to realize that Jesus was speaking about 1st century Israel in Mt24A (in which A goes to v29). Mt 21, 22, 23, all have heavy themes about the failure of Israel/Judaism resulting in the desolation of the country. There is no logical reason to jump to the distant future in Mt24.
2, most of history has had the dilemmas and tragedies that sound global from the material (the appearance of a 'messiah' in the temple would be an exception that had to do with how Jewish zealots used the temple in that generation). There are some ways in which the world today is actually in way better shape than what is depicted.

NT eschatology is either 1st century Judean-based OR distant-future global.

 

[ebedmelech]

It seems so silly. Why would John prophesize about things that had already happened by the time the book was written?

That would be because you already have the notion it's future before you even read it...which...is probably what you where first taught, and you never questioned it.

The first error is following the erroneous belief that Revelation was written in 95 AD when it was written *probably* about 64-66 AD.

John is obeying Jesus in warning 7 LITERAL churches of that day, that things are about to happen they need to be prepared for. Jesus sends an angel to give John the vision, and John writes what he saw.

The thing we should do with Revelation is understand FIRST, it is an EXPANDED version of Jesus' "Olivet Discourse" prophecy!

John is the only gospel that doesn't include the Olivet Discourse...and that is because Revelation is it.

You can either take another look...or stick with what you've bee taught.

I believe *just about* everything in Revelation 1-18 occured in 70 AD.

I'm sure others are going to cime in with their view also...

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 7:

The thing we should do with Revelation is understand FIRST, it is an EXPANDED version of Jesus' "Olivet Discourse" prophecy!

Note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

ebedmelech said in post 7:

I believe *just about* everything in Revelation 1-18 occured in 70 AD.

Note that preterism (whether full or partial), as well as historicism (in its various modern forms), and pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, could all be animated by the same spirit of fear: that the church alive today throughout the world would otherwise have to physically suffer through the future, almost-entirely literal, worldwide tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For these 5 views of preterism, historicism, pre-tribulation rapturism, symbolicism, and spiritualism, in their different ways, each gives a mistaken assurance to the church alive today that it won't have to physically suffer through that tribulation.

Preterism says that the tribulation happened in 70 AD (or a few years before and including 70 AD). Historicism says that it happened over a long period in history (e.g. during the rise and height of the RCC's power in Europe during the Middle Ages and after, or during the rise and spread of Islam in the Middle East and elsewhere during the Middle Ages and after). Pre-tribulation rapturism says that Jesus will return and rapture the church into the 3rd heaven before the tribulation begins. Symbolicism says that the tribulation is only symbolic of theological themes which those in the church have always had to struggle with (e.g. Matthew 6:24), and is symbolic of only-local physical persecutions which some in the church have always had to face, and are still facing today in some places. And spiritualism says that the tribulation is only spiritual events which go on only within the hearts of individuals.

But when the almost-entirely literal, worldwide tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 begins in our future, the shaky doctrinal wall which (in their different ways) these 5 views have each tried to build up between the church and the tribulation, will be completely shattered (Ezekiel 13:10-12) as the church worldwide begins to physically suffer through the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-31, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). These 5 views may have left some in the church unprepared mentally to undergo this physical suffering, to where these 5 views could even contribute to some in the church ultimately losing their salvation because of committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12) during the tribulation, when they become "offended" that God is making them and their little ones physically suffer through it (Matthew 24:9-12, Matthew 13:21, Isaiah 8:21-22, Luke 8:13).

Even though the church today throughout the world will have to physically suffer through the future tribulation, the church need not fear this (cf. 1 Peter 4:12-13, Revelation 2:10). For even though many in the church will suffer and die during that time (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), this will be to their gain, as it will bring their souls into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8; see also 2 Corinthians 4:17-18; 2 Timothy 2:12), and it won't rob them of the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) of obtaining eternal life (Titus 1:2, Titus 3:7) in an immortal, physical resurrection body (Romans 8:23-25, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), which will occur immediately after the future tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

[Interplanner]

B2 you're worse than ever.

The way Lk 21 is written about the trampling is that it starts then, at the DofJ. Your "notes" are piles of confusion; you are thinking too much; writing way too much. You are as ignorant of the events of the DofJ as when I first came across you.

No "notes" please. they are just B2-think. They are built-in, unbased, but massively-repeated thinking.