I cannot recognize the voice of God

[Aussie Pete]

And how do you know this, exactly? Excepting the Bible through which God is always speaking, do you have some objective way of discerning when it is, in fact, God speaking to you? Or do you "just know" (which would be entirely subjective)?



Okay. But how do you know it was God giving you this impression? Why could it not have been a demonic counterfeit? Or some sort of sixth sense? If you'd had this strong impression exactly as you had it and nothing happened, would it still have been from God? Or do you judge the origin of your impression on whether or not your impression leads to the outcome you expect - in which case, "hearing" God is entirely circumstantial (and subjective) in character rather than spiritual?



Surely, you didn't need God to say such an obvious thing to you when you were feeling ill.



You cannot truly be on the verge of renal failure and have no physical indication whatsoever that you are. Such a serious condition at such a stage is marked by swelling of the lower legs, shortness of breath, fatigue, nausea and other symptoms besides.



This is speaking of the condition of a genuine believer which is characterized by being under the control of the Spirit and being, therefore, spiritually-minded rather than carnally-minded (see the verses immediately before the one from Romans 8 that you quoted). It is not talking about how God communicates to His children but about what marks the truly born-again person.



No one to whom God wanted to speak in Scripture failed to hear Him. No one. Now, some did not want to hear Him and resisted His words to them, but they DID hear, nonetheless. God used burning bushes, visits from His angels, a talking donkey, a giant hand writing on a wall, the ground opening up and swallowing the wicked, and so on in His efforts to communicate Himself to people. Those today, then, who say that God is speaking, but so subtly and mysteriously that His communication can be misunderstood or missed entirely, are not in accord with the record of Scripture. From Abraham, to Moses, to Balaam, to Saul and David, to Elijah, and Paul, and a great host of others, none mistook God speaking to them or could avoid it.

So, what's wrong with Christians today who, like you, often get completely wrong what God is saying to them? Why was God able to communicate so clearly and powerfully in the past but not now? Why are those in whom the Spirit dwells constantly so easily mistaking God's voice? My belief is that they aren't really hearing from Him at all, but are so desperate to interact with Him as with another human that they will manufacture His "voice" in order to do so. I think, too, the devil manipulates this desire to humanize God to his own ends, grooming believers to think God is speaking when, in fact, he is.

All of this can be avoided, however, simply by knowing and applying God's word - Scripture - to one's living.

2 Timothy 3:16-17.

Do you know anything about spirit, soul and body? You come across as if you do not. Do you you know about intuition? There really is such a thing and it is far more accurate than mental reasoning. When the Lord told me to go to the doctor, I did not feel ill. One of the nurses told me I was the healthiest in-patient she'd ever seen. The doctor referred me to a specialist. After a scan, he told me to go to emergency, not even to go home to get a change of clothes.

The reason that Christians get things wrong from time to time is that we are not perfect. For instance, I've had a desire for something that was so strong that it overrode my intuition. I ended up with severe insomnia. When I gave up my desire, the insomnia immediately lifted. If you want a Bible verse to go with that, it's Isaiah 50:10 & 11. The Christian life is a walk along a straight and narrow path. We learn obedience by the things we suffer. Failure can and should be a good thing, as long as we learn something. I'm 48 years in the Lord. I still have "L" plates on.

 

[aiki]

Do you know anything about spirit, soul and body? You come across as if you do not.

Oh? How so?

Do you you know about intuition?

Yes.

There really is such a thing and it is far more accurate than mental reasoning.

I'd be careful how you think here. Intuition, gut instinct, a strong inward impression - whatever you want to call it - is not always superior to reason. Sometimes gut instinct is utterly wrong. I've lived long enough to see the truth of this many times. Also, it is tempting to think that intuition and reason are at odds with one another, but this isn't so. There is, in fact, a kind of reasoning involved in choosing to follow one's gut instinct. You've described such reasoning above. Beware the false dichotomy.

In any event, none of what you've written in response to my last post addresses the points or questions in it. Why is that? It looks like you don't have good answers to my questions and so are simply ignoring them and talking past my questions and points.

When the Lord told me to go to the doctor, I did not feel ill.

Okay. But was this intuition or God talking? How do you distinguish objectively the one from the other? Is it a matter of "I just know"? An atheist could say he "just knows" God doesn't exist, but would you accept that as a good argument in favour of his view? I sure hope not. So, why, then, is it a good argument in favor of your "God talks to me in my head" belief?

The reason that Christians get things wrong from time to time is that we are not perfect.

But God is. And this is why every time in Scripture that God had something to communicate to someone, He never failed to communicate it. Even with those who were at enmity with Him, God still was able to get through to them. We don't have to be perfect, then, to hear clearly from God. Human imperfectness was no barrier to God's communications to people in the Bible and it is no barrier to Him now. This is why I say, if someone is not certain God is communicating with them, He isn't.

For instance, I've had a desire for something that was so strong that it overrode my intuition.

So, just to be clear: You are equating your human intuition with God speaking to you? Doesn't that make you, your intuition, the key to God's communication? Where do you see this taught in Scripture?

For instance, I've had a desire for something that was so strong that it overrode my intuition. I ended up with severe insomnia. When I gave up my desire, the insomnia immediately lifted.

It may surprise you to know that I had a similar experience many moons ago. In my case, it wasn't just giving up something that resolved my problem but learning to be content with God alone.

The Christian life is a walk along a straight and narrow path. We learn obedience by the things we suffer

Yes. But what does this have to do with the issues you have with my comments in earlier posts? So far, you haven't justified your criticisms of my views.

Failure can and should be a good thing, as long as we learn something.

Well, I would not say that failure itself is a good thing. The good thing is the learning it may provoke. Sometimes failure can be catastrophic and terribly destructive - even when something is learned from it.

 

[Aussie Pete]

As I said, you seem to be unclear on the matter of intuition. The spirit of man includes the faculties of conscience and intuition. The unbeliever still has a conscience. He also has intuition. Both those faculties are marred by the fall of man in the garden of Eden.

Being born again is to receive a new spirit that is alive to God. Lord Jesus is pleased to dwell in this new spirit. Like a newborn baby, the new spirit knows very little. However, our conscience is newly sensitive to the things of God and the intuition is able to hear from God. I had no idea of these things when I got saved. I still had intuition functioning, even though I did not know what it was. For example, I was offered a sponsorship to become a Freemason. In Australia, that sets you up for life. I knew nothing about Freemasonry but I had an inner witness that said NO! So I passed up the opportunity. I had no logical reason. I found out why later, when I looked into it. Many, many times I've had similar experiences. I've been saved a great deal of grief by following intuition and suffered for overriding it. Intuition is the "ears to hear" that we must have in order to know the things of God. The best treatise I've found is by Watchman Nee, "The Spiritual Man". He covers the whole being of man, but there is a large section devoted to the spirit of man. Mere mental research is not enough. You know how many different opinions there are about what the Bible means. That's where denominations come from. No one has all the truth, except the Lord Jesus. He is the Truth. There is a world of difference between mental assent and knowing in the spirit. I spend half a day on this subject in my Bible school. It's not so easy to convey it on a forum.

No, we do not have to be perfect in order to hear from God. However, we have an enemy who endeavours to lead us astray. We have inner desires that conflict with God's will (Lord Jesus in Gethsemane for example) and our understanding may be wrong. That is why we need our minds renewed. Peter is a classic example. He tried to talk Lord Jesus out of His appointment with the cross. A natural and compassionate response, but entirely wrong.

Being led by intuition is not subjective in the emotive sense. It is how God leads us, if we will heed it. We have the written word that is our safety net, so to speak. If what we are hearing contradicts God's word, we should reject it out of hand.

 

[aiki]

As I said, you seem to be unclear on the matter of intuition. The spirit of man includes the faculties of conscience and intuition.

Says who?

The unbeliever still has a conscience. He also has intuition. Both those faculties are marred by the fall of man in the garden of Eden.

Yes, of course an unbeliever has a conscience. Who has said otherwise?

What do you mean by "intuition"? How is intuition distinct from God speaking to you?

Yes, it is basic Christian doctrine that tells us the human conscience was "marred" by the Fall. What does any of the above have to do with my comments?

Being born again is to receive a new spirit that is alive to God.

Being born-again is to be made spiritually alive by the indwelling presence of God's Spirit, yes.

Lord Jesus is pleased to dwell in this new spirit.

??? The Holy Spirit, called the "spirit of Christ" by the apostle Paul (Romans 8:9), dwells within a person and in so doing spiritually regenerates them. But where, exactly, are you getting this notion that Jesus is pleased to dwell within a born-again person's "new spirit"?

Like a newborn baby, the new spirit knows very little.

Scripture, please.

However, our conscience is newly sensitive to the things of God and the intuition is able to hear from God.

Scripture, please.

I had no idea of these things when I got saved. I still had intuition functioning, even though I did not know what it was. For example, I was offered a sponsorship to become a Freemason. In Australia, that sets you up for life. I knew nothing about Freemasonry but I had an inner witness that said NO! So I passed up the opportunity. I had no logical reason. I found out why later, when I looked into it. Many, many times I've had similar experiences. I've been saved a great deal of grief by following intuition and suffered for overriding it.

Again, this all talks past the points in my last post.

Intuition is the "ears to hear" that we must have in order to know the things of God.

Scripture, please.

Mere mental research is not enough.

"Mental research"?

You know how many different opinions there are about what the Bible means. That's where denominations come from.

This is a massive over-simplification of the facts of the matter.

No one has all the truth, except the Lord Jesus. He is the Truth. There is a world of difference between mental assent and knowing in the spirit.

How, exactly, are you connecting up these statements? Yes, no one has all the truth except the Source of All Truth who is God. But what do you mean by "knowing in the spirit"? From what Scripture are you deriving this stuff?

However, we have an enemy who endeavours to lead us astray.

Did the devil not exist when God spoke to Moses? Yes, he existed at that time. Was he able to confound God's communication to Moses? No. What about God's communication to Gideon? The devil was around at the time and yet God made Himself perfectly clear to Gideon. The same was true of Abraham, and Daniel, and Elijah, and David and a host of other biblical figures. God spoke directly and clearly to all of these people despite the devil being around. Clearly, the devil's power to lead people astray has not and cannot confound God's communication to us. If God wants to say something to us, we will hear it, regardless of the devil's power to deceive.

We have inner desires that conflict with God's will (Lord Jesus in Gethsemane for example) and our understanding may be wrong

Moses' inner desires conflicted strongly with God's will and yet he could not escape the will and word of God communicated to him. The apostle Paul was totally at odds with God when God spoke to him. Paul's badly awry understanding of God's will was no barrier to God communicating perfectly clearly and directly to Paul on the road to Damascus.

That is why we need our minds renewed.

Yes, and? What does this have to do with my last post?

Being led by intuition is not subjective in the emotive sense.

Nonetheless, it is still essentially subjective.

It is how God leads us, if we will heed it.

Scripture, please.

We have the written word that is our safety net, so to speak. If what we are hearing contradicts God's word, we should reject it out of hand.

So why, then, do you not simply act according to what God has said in His word? Why this extra and unnecessary step? If you end up going back to God's word to confirm and/or evaluate what you've heard, why not just start there? God has given us all we need in His word to live godly in Christ Jesus. We have His wisdom, His truth, His commands, and His spiritual principles by which to navigate all circumstances. There is no need for intuiting God's voice. This is exactly what Paul wrote to Timothy. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

 

[sea5763]

nvm

 

[Blade]

I am very sorry....truly I am. If I was you and read the posts.. who do you listen to? Which one is right? I once asked a very dear friend.. like a mother to me. She prayed 4+ hours a day. MAN she had so much power of God. I asked "how do you know the voice of God?" She said "you know that you know that you know". See for me if I have to question it.. its not God. Jesus said "my sheep know my voice". Can Jesus ever lie? So when He talks.. you will know.. you wont question it. And God is no light switch we turn off or on. He is always on.

I would search the word of God for ..if God hears us. The bible for me says.. He hears the righteous not the unrighteous. He answers before we even Finnish praying. Its written if you know He hears you then you know you have the petitions/prayers you asked for. Remember God is not a man..He does not think like one act like one. So stay in the word and when you pray.. just worship Him.. how ever you want.. and what ever you ask for.. give Him time to answer.. in other words WAIT on Him.. keep your mind on Him.. all good things come from God. Never uses fear worry doubt..not of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control..is how He moves.

For me.. it is that sweet sweet voice in side me when He talks. And if you wonder about something.. ask Him to back it up.. well He is the one that said "test all spirits". One comes to mind when talking to Him about an elderly man in a home I would go read the bible to since He could not nor speak just moan. In prayer I said "you gave me this burden for him so I have a right to know why he is not being healed. He came right back with "remember when Daniel prayed".. this part is always so hard to explain. I knew what He was talking about because those words .. lol.. well exploded.. when to many ways.. hard to put into words. Anyway so I said "ok if this is really you..then tell me where that is written" I knew it was God.. I just wanted to know where and if it was really Him. Odd how you can know yet.. still doubt sometimes. He came right back with "Daniel 10 9-12"

I LOVE so much sharing this one.. well I had never in my life read the book of Daniel...or the OT for that matter. KNOW He is for you.. KNOW He talks and more then we ever do. We ask things of others all the time and YES God LOVES for you to ask.. we just ..don't give Him time to answer.

 

[Pedra]

I've finally put a finger on one of my biggest obstacles as a Christian, which is that I cannot recognize the voice of the Shepherd. I have OCD, also some other issues, and sometimes the voice of God, Satan, or my own brain sound all very similar and believable.

I think thoughts like, "If I do not do this, then I will burn in Hell forever" (for instance, I feel like God is recently ordering me to confess a sin to some people, even though confessing to them would backfire and cause all kinds of problems, and is not advisable.) A voice like, "If you do not obey God on this issue, when you die, you're headed for Hell."

I also cannot sense much of a difference between conviction and condemnation. I simply am a sheep that does not know the voice of the Shepherd. Most spiritual thoughts that I ever think are about coercion - "Do this or that, or else God will impose harsh consequences on you for disobedience."

Read the Bible and attend a bible-teaching church with a good Pastor. As you become a good student of the word & hear sound Christian teaching you will be know the voice of God as He speaks through His written word. Anything that contradicts it , is not from the Holy Spirit. He is who IN-Spired the writing of scriptures, and over-saw putting together of the canon of 66 books we have as the Bible.

 

[Petunia]

I agree with a lot of what's been posted here. Scripture teaches that when we come to the Lord, we are like newborn babies in the faith. I Cor 3:1-3, Heb 5:12-14. This means that we are all at various stages spiritually. For newbies in Christ, do what scriptures says to do to grow up in the faith. Study, receive the Holy Spirit for guidance, Find a church whose beliefs are in line with the Christian faith. Take care of all mental and physical needs by visiting your doctors and following their guidance.

In I John- 2:20 we are told about an anointing from the Holy Spirit...that leads us into all truths. I believe this is an inner guidance..whereby we know what is right and what is not.

It's God's choice how He chooses to speak to His people. And there are various ways that He does. There is no one reasoned out formula for hearing God's Voice. That is because God has no boundaries. He transcends all that we are, including our minds... and all of our surroundings, including the world and beyond.

Regarding the still small Voice and the audible Voice. When we speak to our own children, we make sure they hear us, and understand what we are saying. So does God! When He speaks to us, He doesn't leave us wondering or doubting whether or not it's Him. If there is wonder or doubt, then it wasn't God speaking. 'Knowing' or 'recognizing' His voice, has nothing to do with anything on our parts. Doesn't have anything to do with how much or little we study scripture. Or how spiritually grown up we may think we are. The only reason we know His voice, is because He makes His voice known to us. When He speaks to us in this Voice, there is no room left for wonder or doubt.

Sin. Even under God's grace, God still hates sin. If you have sin in your life, you may not hear from God. Abandon the sin and ask forgiveness.