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I cannot come back to God (Hebrews 6)

Discussion in 'Recovery Related Spiritual Advice' started by Curtis697, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. Curtis697

    Curtis697 New Member

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    The arrogant apperance of the title was just an attention grabber. I desperately need help. I want to ask people not to answer this thread unless they know their bible doctrines. Saying, "well God is love and He wouldn't do that," will not help me.

    I grew up in a Christian home and was always told that I had a call of God on my life. In my teenage years, I turned from God and became "atheist."
    A football coach offered to lead me to the Lord, I declined. Circumstances caused by God led me to accepting Christ as savior with him. Christ was not Lord at that point, however.

    2 years later, God calls me to bible college. There, I learn bible theology, as well as how to minister through the Holy Spirit, and to be used as a vessel to proclaim His mighty name. Demons manifested, people persecuted me, people were supernaturally healed, and I saw many, many miracles when I obeyed the Holy Ghost.

    I never truly sought the Lord. It was never truly about Him. I wanted to marry a girl that went there with me. I was serving God to be with her. In the end, she married somebody else.

    I cursed God. I said something to the extent of, "God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.. I am done with you. I will never return to Christianity again."

    After that I did not backslide. Instead, I began wilfully sinning as much as I possibly could with the specific intent of silencing the Holy Ghost's voice. He would still grieve me after I denounced Him, but He eventually stopped.

    I have slept with 30 women since then. I have become more Godless than I ever was prior to being saved. I am tormented day and night. I know very well that I am going to hell. I try to return to repentance.. but cannot find it in me. I cannot feel sorrow for my sin.

    I have studied Hebrews 6 probably more than anybody alive. I fully understand the context of Jewish believers returning to sacraments. I understand the Calvanist and Armenian viewpoints. I have propbably.. without exaggeration spent 100 hours studying this scripture alone.

    The conclusion I have come to is this: it means either one of two things:
    1. If someone is involved in the things of God as I was, and turns away completely (not backslide), then it is impossible for them, no matter what, to ever be in their original state, saved, whatever you want to call it; again. God will forgive them, but their heart cannot possibly be changed because it is impossible for them to choose it, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.

    2. It means that if someone falls away as i described above, YOU, or any other man can not lead them back to the way of Truth. But they can choose it, or God will lead them. In other words, "if someone is engulfed in the fullness of the things of God, and falls away completely.. you cannot convince them to repent, because they are recrucifying Jesus as far as they are concerned. "

    I truly don't know which one is true. I'm finding the first one to be true for the last year.. but I might be prematurely judging Gods sovereign plan.

    You can either stop reading here, or keep reading to see where things get ten times crazier... all responses are appreciated.


    I got in a motorcycle accident that nearly killed me 6 months after going apostate, my life was spared. I believe to have mightily felt God's presence in the brain rehabilitation center.. the VERY THOUGHT of God would make me feel His presence and begin to weep uncontrollably. I had an opportunity there, but I decided, during that, to return to the world again.

    That led to me eventually meeting a girl.. the way we met, our connection, was unreal.. unlike anything I've encountered in my life. We met through circumstances that would make anyone that didn't know better believe that God put us together.. however, I know what the voice of Jesus feels like. Satan orchestrated her and I meeting.

    We were in a hotel room our first week together, and while she was in the shower, I had a vision. I saw myself, and her. She was distracting me and hell was beneath us. I saw a black hand come from hell and pull me into it while being distracted. Well, a year later, we broke up. So i shrugged that vision off.

    6 months later, we're back in eachothers lives, again, due to supernatural coincidences. My spirit was eating at me, saying somethings wrong. So i cried out to Jesus harder than I ever have saying. "Jesus, if being with her is going to take me to hell, at least make it so that I know it without a doubt." I was screaming at top of my lungs in tears when i prayed that.

    I woke up to a text message from my most radical christian friend.. that knows nothing about me. The message said this:
    "
    I felt God told me to anoint myself with oil and then to sit down and listen. I did so, and immediately I heard the word "friend". I continued to listen and set my heart upon Him, when I began to see a vision. It was you, walking behind a girl. I couldn't see her face at first, but only her back. She wore a long dress that followed behind her. She seemed to be young and beautiful. Delicacies like candy and color objects followed close to her.

    I saw you and it seemed you were drawn to her, as if you wanted to be with her. You were attracted to her and had a desire to engage with her. You got close and even tried to touch her dress and even smell it; it seemed you would even taste it if you could.

    The girl continued to walk with her back to me until I came closer to her front. I then saw her face and it looked like that of a living corpse, even a hideous insect. There was obvious evil and wickedness about her. She then turned to you and grabbed you and killed you in front of me. She left the scene and all I saw was your grave.

    I was then taken to another vision in which I saw you with God. In this scene you had refused the woman and were drawn to the Lord. He showed you creation and brought you through mountains and valleys. You were both friends. He brought you before many people and you proclaimed the message of salvation to them. You were enraptured by Him and He with you.

    In this scene I have just mentioned, you were consumed with love for God and it did not matter that you were single. Marriage was not even on your mind. You were fulfilled in your relationship with Jesus Christ. "




    I called her and told her I was done with her. The pain was overwhelming. I felt such an assurance from the Holy Spirit after making that decision. But the pain was too great. I began pleading with God to let me marry her. I felt, after a couple nights, as if God said, "I will allow you to marry her, without it taking you to hell. But you will never accomplish the plan I have for you."

    TO FINALLY SUM IT ALL UP: I am wondering if these struggles of me just being able to not turn to God, no matter how deep in darkness I fall, is described in Hebrews 6.

    Is there anybody who feels that can offer something? Personal experience? A passage in the bible I may have missed? Insight? Anything?
    God bless you all.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I think if you were really done with God, you wouldn't be posting like this, honestly. You haven't given up but are looking for the way forward.

    The thing is, you can't be what you were before, of course. Your experience has changed you. But you can go forward into a new beginning with God, that will be different to what it was before. Think! Christ told us to forgive one another even to seventy times seven times; God's open embrace of forgiveness for us is not less wide.

    I'd read Hebrews 10:19-23 as if it is talking about you (for it is); Christ has opened the way for you, and God's promises to us in Christ are unwavering, because of God's faithfulness to us.

    I guess the question is, if you could speak to God now, with the confidence that Hebrews 10:19 speaks of, and nothing coming between you (for Christ has removed every obstacle), would God not look upon you with love? Would you return his gaze with any less love? Start with that; you can work the rest out as you go.
     
  3. Blood Bought

    Blood Bought BloodBought

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    Do you think someone who new Gods ways, deliberately spit in Gods face, set out to deliberately defile God’s Holy things, could ever be forgiven. According to the Bible that is exactly what happened with king Menasseh, He did all sorts of evil, but was forgiven with no strings attached when He humbled Himself before the Lord and returned.

    Gods Just that Good, He loves you man!!!! Get used to it! Let the goodness of God lead you to repentance, he still loves you even after all the evil you did to Him, let that shake you about how good He is and how unworthy you are. Yes He is that Good, the entire Bible declares it. Let that sink in that you hurt a God’s heart like you did, yet He still loves you and just like the father in the story of the prodigal son, longs for you to return.

    Let God’s unrelenting love move you, to break your heart, to ask for forgiveness and return to Him, so that you can be back with your Father and have the hope of eternal life with the King.

    hezekiah a Godly man has a son named Menasseh. Menasseh grew up knowing the ways of God. And here is what the Bible says about Him.

    “Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. He did what was evil in the Lord’s sight, following the detestable practices of the pagan nations that the Lord had driven from the land ahead of the Israelites. He rebuilt the pagan shrines his father, Hezekiah, had broken down. He constructed altars for the images of Baal and set up Asherah poles. He also bowed before all the powers of the heavens and worshiped them. He built pagan altars in the Temple of the Lord, the place where the Lord had said, “My name will remain in Jerusalem forever.” He built these altars for all the powers of the heavens in both courtyards of the Lord’s Temple. Manasseh also sacrificed his own sons in the fire in the valley of Ben-Hinnom. He practiced sorcery, divination, and witchcraft, and he consulted with mediums and psychics. He did much that was evil in the Lord’s sight, arousing his anger. Manasseh even took a carved idol he had made and set it up in God’s Temple, the very place where God had told David and his son Solomon: “My name will be honored forever in this Temple and in Jerusalem—the city I have chosen from among all the tribes of Israel. If the Israelites will be careful to obey my commands—all the laws, decrees, and regulations given through Moses—I will not send them into exile from this land that I set aside for your ancestors.” But Manasseh led the people of Judah and Jerusalem to do even more evil than the pagan nations that the Lord had destroyed when the people of Israel entered the land. The Lord spoke to Manasseh and his people, but they ignored all his warnings. So the Lord sent the commanders of the Assyrian armies, and they took Manasseh prisoner. They put a ring through his nose, bound him in bronze chains, and led him away to Babylon. But while in deep distress, Manasseh sought the Lord his God and sincerely humbled himself before the God of his ancestors. And when he prayed, the Lord listened to him and was moved by his request. So the Lord brought Manasseh back to Jerusalem and to his kingdom. Then Manasseh finally realized that the Lord alone is God!”
    ‭‭2 Chronicles‬ ‭33:1-13‬ ‭NLT‬‬


    You need to get yourself off Hebrews 6, what ever it means it need to line up with the rest of the Bible and Gods character.

    The whole premise of God’s character is that someone humbles themselves and asks for forgiveness sincerely, even if it was brought on from a fear of destruction, God forgives them when they come to Him humbly, seek forgiveness, and return to God.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
  4. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Sometimes repentance does not come on quickly and can be a very slow long suffering process. I think this might be where you are at.

    You appear to know your Bible keep trying to do what the Word tells you to do. Pray often for mercy we all need it.

    I have been very far away from God at times but in the back of my mind there was that call to come back come back.

    The day came when I did come back crying, ego smashed, pride washed away and standing very humble before our God.

    I'm not the fortune teller type but, I see this in your future after reading your post.

    It's time to surrender once again.
    And it might not happen overnight.

    M-Bob
     
  5. HelpingHand101

    HelpingHand101 New Member

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    Do not worry, instead humble yourself. For God gives grace to the humble.
     
  6. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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  7. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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    Hi, it is understandable to have a desire to be with someone. It is a God given desire, but I believe we all have empty spaces in our hearts that can only be satisfied by the deep love of God who made us. And, because God loves you so much he wants his best for you. I know you are not wanting someone to say God loves you, but he does and nothing you can do can make him love you any more or any less. He will always love you. His love isn't based on what we do or have done but on who he is and everything he's done for us. We are saved by all that Jesus has done. It is his faithful obedience to the father, him fulfilling the law perfectly, and dying on the cross that has saved us. It is a free gift of eternal life that cost God his son, but that is how much we mean to him and everything you're worth. We live in a world where not only were false teachings prevalent in Christianity back in the Bible but also possibly more than ever in today's world. We are surrounded by false teachings and anything that says you need works or it's about what you are doing in addition to what Jesus has done to be saved or maintain salvation is a false teaching. That is not the Gospel. It's called the good news for a reason. I don't know exactly what kind of things were happening at that church, but please be careful there are a lot of rather dangerous practices that have invaded the church at a rapid rate. I have a personal belief that the things we encounter may end up influencing our personal lives in various ways. I would recommend not going to a church if you are possibly encountering these kind of things. I have seen too many strange videos. I don't know if I would want anyone to be exposed to the possible dangers that I suspect may be operating at these kind of churches in addition to the false teachings that can throw people into confusion. If you are confused, it's not the Holy Spirit. For God is not a God of disorder or confusion but a God of peace. Your relationship with God is not in jeopardy. He is just waiting for you in love. Think about the Prodigal's son. One thing I have found helpful is there is no rest found in ourselves only in Jesus. It's found in the cross and that he died for all our sins and we are saved only because of him. By the works of the law, no one will be justified. Jesus fulfilled every law perfectly in our place because he knows we aren't perfect and we can't stop sinning. That's why he died for us. I hope you truly know your salvation's secure because I know how upsetting that can be. Jason Jack on youtube has really helped me understand the Gospel. I definitely recommend checking him out. As far as your situation goes, what I would do is tell God to close every door in your life that isn't from him and honestly express everything you're feeling and pour your heart out. He wants to help you through this. He just wants to be with you and he loves you more than any person could ever possibly begin to love you. He wants to know everything on your heart and mind, so these things can be laid down. It might seem scary to do this and if it is easier make a list of all the things you're struggling with or write a letter to him. I've found this can be helpful if you're fearful to come to him. Lastly, believe he died for you and by faith you are saved because he is our only hope. No one is righteous, not even one. We all fall short of the glory of God. If our eyes are turned inward at ourselves, all we will see is our sin, but if we look at him, we see the cross and the sacrifice he made to give us life, demolish the wall that once kept us separated and one day bring us home to live face to face with him just as he is forever with us on this earth. I hope this helps you in some way. I pray God would give you his peace and drown you in the depths of his love as he leads you in his truth.
     
  8. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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    Hi, I saw what else you said, and I just wanted to say the unpardonable sin is when the Pharisees claimed Jesus's power came from demons. I don't think you said that.
     
  9. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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    Please listen, repenting of sins is not something we do. That would be a work. It's not about what we do at all. Repenting is turning from our dead works we think can save us and turning to what Jesus has done on the cross knowing he is the only one who can save us. I may not seem to know the Bible well considering I didn't give references, but ask him to show you the truth. I struggled with doubts about my salvation for years and God has been showing me the truth all along. It is the only way the Bible makes sense and is not a contradiction but God has been helping me to understand most importantly. If we have not believed the true Gospel, we cannot see the Bible through a spiritual lens. Instead, we will see it through an earthly carnal, man works based lens. Also every version of the Bible after the King James version has been altered. The KJV is the original pure book of God's word which means any version of the Bible that has been rewritten after that has had verses taken out or altered to mean different things and to fit this common form of works-based Christianity. If you look at the Pharisees in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they are the very people that thought they were obeying God by trying to keep all the laws and focus on what they were doing or not doing for God, but they missed Jesus, the son of God who had come to die for their sins, so the law could be fulfilled and they could be free from it, but they were so focused on themselves and what they were doing or not doing that they couldn't recognize the very Savior who had come to save them that they plotted to have them killed. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. I hope this helps you know when you believe that Jesus is the only one who can save you, you are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise and your salvation is secure. The Bible says no one shall pluck them out of my hand.
     
  10. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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    Bob, I understand what you're saying but repentence is not something we do. It's turning from our dead works we think can save us and turning to what Jesus has done on the cross knowing he's the only one who can save us.
     
  11. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Unworthy Recipient Of Unfathomable Love Supporter

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    Just here is a point on which many may err, and hence they fail of receiving the help that Christ desires to give them.

    They think that they cannot come to Christ unless they first repent, and that repentance prepares for the forgiveness of their sins.

    It is true that repentance does precede the forgiveness of sins; for it is only the broken and contrite heart that will feel the need of a Saviour.

    But must the sinner wait till he has repented before he can come to Jesus? Is repentance to be made an obstacle between the sinner and the Saviour?

    The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ, “Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” Matthew 11:28.

    It is the virtue that goes forth from Christ, that leads to genuine repentance. Peter made the matter clear in his statement to the Israelites when he said, “Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” Acts 5:31.

    We can no more repent without the Spirit of Christ to awaken the conscience than we can be pardoned without Christ.

    Christ is the source of every right impulse. He is the only one that can implant in the heart enmity against sin.

    Every desire for truth and purity, every conviction of our own sinfulness, is an evidence that His Spirit is moving upon our hearts.

    Jesus has said, “I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.” John 12:32.

    Christ must be revealed to the sinner as the Saviour dying for the sins of the world; and as we behold the Lamb of God upon the cross of Calvary, the mystery of redemption begins to unfold to our minds and the goodness of God leads us to repentance.

    In dying for sinners, Christ manifested a love that is incomprehensible; and as the sinner beholds this love, it softens the heart, impresses the mind, and inspires contrition in the soul.
     
  12. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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    Bob, that is some good points you've made and beautiful words. When I was speaking of repentance, I think in the church now it's often looked at as repenting of your sins like trying to stop sinning and it's unfortunate many including myself have been misled in thinking this is what repentance is, some kind of work of ourselves like if we don't repent after every sin, somehow we won't be saved. It makes me upset because Jesus gave up his life for us and died on the cross, so we could know salvation and it is his finished work on the cross that saves us. Yes, what an incomprehensible love. When there isn't repentance, the Pharisees come to mind who thought they didn't need Jesus. I sometimes feel there is a fine line in the church between devotion to God and a legalistic kind of teaching of lordship salvation where people either think their works can save them and are the ones teaching this kind of gospel, adding works to grace or others are sadly being deceived. This is what I was referring to. The verse "come to me all you who are weary and overburdened and I will give you rest", maybe it's just my interpretation but I see it as the only true rest that can only come from Jesus, leading us to the cross where out of the free gift of his grace and utmost love and mercy, we don't have to work to be saved. When I read this verse, I also see other meanings within it as well, but relating to what I said, we have true rest for our souls. "Take my yolk upon you and learn from me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Referring to repentance being a change of one's mind, it is by grace through faith that you have been saved. It is by his grace through faith that saves us not any work. Repentance being like the Israelites who looked up at the bronze snake on a pole with childlike faith and us looking to Jesus to save us with that childlike faith not to ourselves because he is our salvation. That's what I mean by repentance. As far as does repentance need to be an obstacle between the savior and the sinner? If repentance is looking to Jesus as the only one who can save us from our sins, if that is not present, I think in some cases people can have an inaccurate view of God especially pertaining to salvation whether it's those who don't believe in him at all and are trusting in another religion to save them which often involves the self ascending to a certain state or Christians who are looking to works plus what Jesus has done to save them and think that's what grace is. I say all this as a Christian who was very confused by false teachings in the church for many years. I think these things can blind people from knowing the true love of Christ and the free gift of eternal life when Jesus says, these people are ever hearing but never understanding. I can't think of the full verse off the top of my head. Can someone be led to Jesus even when they haven't repented in this way? Yes, I believe so. He can do anything, but we receive the Holy Spirit when we believe the word. Ephesians 1:13 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. I hope I'm explaining all this in a way that's understandable. I'm kind of tired, so I'm not sure. It is really nice talking to you and hearing your insights, hope you have a good night!
     
  13. Missmacy118

    Missmacy118 New Member

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    Ok I read it again. I think I'm better understanding what you're saying. It makes me sad people think they can't come to Jesus unless they repent. I haven't thought about this cause the way Jesus is often presented is through the gospel and trying to get people saved. It's an interesting way to talk about Jesus to someone who may not know him that he wants us to come to him even if were struggling to believe. I like it as a way of witnessing if someone is having a hard time believing that he loves us so much he wants for us to come to him as we are.

    I struggle with a kind of ocd known as scrupulosity and one of my obsessions is about people being saved. From the things you said, are you saying if people come to him, they will saved? I want to believe everyone will be saved because it deeply upsets me thinking about people going to hell for not believing or trusting in their works like the Pharisees. It would help for me to have a more hopeful view of salvation. Jesus came to draw all people to himself and save the world not condemn it. I like to believe one day all people believers and unbelievers alike will live with him because they will come to faith through him, but it's hard to reconcile this belief with what the Bible says and how it makes me upset people reject God because I can't imagine how it makes God feel even though it helps me to obsess less and be less upset about people being saved. He sent his son to die for all those people because he loves them and they reject his love. That breaks my heart. If God is so loving, he sent his only son to die on the cross, so we could be saved and live with him forever how can people be sent to hell if I a mere human doesn't want them to be sent to hell? How much more gracious is God that none of his children should perish? This is just something I ponder over. If you don't want to answer the above replies, feel free not to they're very long, but I've been having a hard time with these questions if you can answer them or show Bible verses?
     
  14. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Unworthy Recipient Of Unfathomable Love Supporter

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    It is true that men sometimes become ashamed of their sinful ways, and give up some of their evil habits, before they are conscious that they are being drawn to Christ. But whenever they make an effort to reform, from a sincere desire to do right, it is the power of Christ that is drawing them. An influence of which they are unconscious works upon the soul, and the conscience is quickened, and the outward life is amended. And as Christ draws them to look upon His cross, to behold Him whom their sins have pierced, the commandment comes home to the conscience.

    The wickedness of their life, the deep-seated sin of the soul, is revealed to them. They begin to comprehend something of the righteousness of Christ, and exclaim, “What is sin, that it should require such a sacrifice for the redemption of its victim? Was all this love, all this suffering, all this humiliation, demanded, that we might not perish, but have everlasting life?”

    The sinner may resist this love, may refuse to be drawn to Christ; but if he does not resist he will be drawn to Jesus; a knowledge of the plan of salvation will lead him to the foot of the cross in repentance for his sins, which have caused the sufferings of God's dear Son.

    The same divine mind that is working upon the things of nature is speaking to the hearts of men and creating an inexpressible craving for something they have not. The things of the world cannot satisfy their longing. The Spirit of God is pleading with them to seek for those things that alone can give peace and rest—the grace of Christ, the joy of holiness.

    Through influences seen and unseen, our Saviour is constantly at work to attract the minds of men from the unsatisfying pleasures of sin to the infinite blessings that may be theirs in Him. To all these souls, who are vainly seeking to drink from the broken cisterns of this world, the divine message is addressed, “Let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelation 22:17.
     
  15. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It appears that you and God are too involved ... for Him to have given up on you ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  16. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Well I do wonder at the title, "I cannot come back to God (Hebrews 6)"And then you state further on in your piece,

    I began pleading with God to let me marry her. I felt, after a couple nights, as if God said, "I will allow you to marry her, without it taking you to hell. But you will never accomplish the plan I have for you."

    So it seems you're saying you have a fellowship with God for you pray and he answers and you feel he stated that you won't actually go to hell so why are you talking in terms of God having given up on you which would cause you not to make heaven your home.

    It's only you who are stating you can't turn back to God. Even choosing to do that you're putting your way of thinking over God's. And sorry but you're not being consistent why would God tell you if you marry her you won't be able to accomplish what he wants to do in your future but it won't send you to hell if it were true that you can't turn to God? What your claiming isn't adding up.
     
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