I am your healer

sandman · Sep 3, 2023

Watchman1 said:
All this is perfectly true, and if the church in general were in a right place with God then we would see the supernatural gifts of the Spirit flowing, But we don't, and that is because the church in general has strayed from the sound doctrine of the Gospel, and has gone into fables, ritual, ceremony and man-directed programmes. As Leonard Ravenhill said, "Instead of agonising in the Upper Room, there is organising in the supper room", and "playing instead of praying." In fact, generally, the church has become more of a religious club catering for its members, than a visible representation of Christ in the world in order to draw sinners to Christ.

Even though there may be a number of faithful believers in a church who are praying for the gifts to manifest, the general attitude of the rest, even in the leadership, is quenching and grieving the Spirit, and where the Spirit is being grieved, His gifts don't function.

It is hard to argue with what you state …and it’s sad

But it won’t stop me from teaching it and doing my best to walk in that resurrection perfection…..I have seen far too many miracles and healings from things as simple as running shoes (long story) to seeing three people raised from the dead … one being my daughter and to be perfectly honest I can’t say that I followed the things I laid out in my previous post when it came to my daughter…. But God did show me a visual revelation that spanned about 20 years in a matter of, I think, seconds (but I can’t be sure) and told me to get her up after being dead for possibly 35 minutes.

I know that God is the prime mover …not me, and it doesn’t mater how spiritual a person is, but what does matter is believing and walking in the truth. We operate the manifestations God beings it to pass. I/we are not healers or workers of miracles God is ..and it is up to us to believe and walk in light of the truth.

Guojing · Sep 3, 2023

sandman said:
We operate the manifestations God beings it to pass. I/we are not healers or workers of miracles God is ..and it is up to us to believe and walk in light of the truth.

Would it better to just pray according to Philippians 4:6-7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, how our apostle Paul teaches us to do so?

Notice no promises of healing, just promises of the peace of God?

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 4, 2023

sandman said:
It is hard to argue with what you state …and it’s sad

But it won’t stop me from teaching it and doing my best to walk in that resurrection perfection…..I have seen far too many miracles and healings from things as simple as running shoes (long story) to seeing three people raised from the dead … one being my daughter and to be perfectly honest I can’t say that I followed the things I laid out in my previous post when it came to my daughter…. But God did show me a visual revelation that spanned about 20 years in a matter of, I think, seconds (but I can’t be sure) and told me to get her up after being dead for possibly 35 minutes.

I know that God is the prime mover …not me, and it doesn’t mater how spiritual a person is, but what does matter is believing and walking in the truth. We operate the manifestations God beings it to pass. I/we are not healers or workers of miracles God is ..and it is up to us to believe and walk in light of the truth.

You shouldn't stop teaching people to put their trust in God for their future, and you shouldn't stop praying for sick people. But the one thing you can't do is to promise a sick person that they will definitely get instant healing apart from the natural process or medical intervention. If you tell a person that they are healed as the result of prayer and there is no symptomatic evidence of it, you are lying to them and if they trust what you tell them and not keep on with their medication or go to the doctor, you could put their life at risk. If the person is terminally sick, then you need to prepare them for eternity by making sure that they have a strong belief and trust in Christ for their salvation.

Therefore what we are trusting in is the sovereignty of God, that He does all things well, whether He heals the person or allows them to remain sick, even die of their sickness if it is terminal.

Therefore, divine healing is not the main focus, but the Gospel, which shows that Jesus died on the Cross to take the penalty for our sins and that if we believe in and trust Him, we will be saved and be resurrected to glory one day.

sandman · Sep 4, 2023

Watchman1 said:
But the one thing you can't do is to promise a sick person that they will definitely get instant healing apart from the natural process or medical intervention. If you tell a person that they are healed as the result of prayer and there is no symptomatic evidence of it, you are lying to them and if they trust what you tell them and not keep on with their medication or go to the doctor, you could put their life at risk. If the person is terminally sick, then you need to prepare them for eternity by making sure that they have a strong belief and trust in Christ for their salvation.

I hope I didn’t give the impression that I do that……… I don’t

If someone (believer) is walking by the spirit ….asking God what to do …and if God give the green light…. that person will always be healed. It has never failed with me because God is the prime mover I am just the liaison.

But I think I know what you are referring to …like …faith healers or whatever those con-artists refer themselves as… I guess I shouldn’t paint with a broad brush …I am sure there are some who mean well and are doing some good.

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 4, 2023

sandman said:
I hope I didn’t give the impression that I do that……… I don’t

If someone (believer) is walking by the spirit ….asking God what to do …and if God give the green light…. that person will always be healed. It has never failed with me because God is the prime mover I am just the liaison.

But I think I know what you are referring to …like …faith healers or whatever those con-artists refer themselves as… I guess I shouldn’t paint with a broad brush …I am sure there are some who mean well and are doing some good.

I wasn't accusing you of making false promises. You are correct about your second paragraph, because that is what I was referring to. I think that anyone sincere in praying for the sick will acknowledge that God is the healer and we must trust in Him. I like Curry Blake's teaching that those on medication should not give it up until the person who prescribed it says so, and the patient should continue his doctor's visits, because God can heal a sick person in spite of the medicine. He quotes a person with diabetes prayed for, and became sicker. After going to the doctor, it was discovered that it was the insulin that was making him sicker, and when the insulin was stopped, the patient became well with no sign of the diabetes.

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 4, 2023

NBB said:
I am praying so that God gives me faith in totally believing in healing miracles (and seeing some in me and in my family).

- "I am your healer" says, and it doesn't say "maybe sometimes"
- "Don't forget any of his benefits" .... "he heals all your sicknesses" it says a benefit from being a child of God is that he heals us of all our sicknesses.
- "By his stripes we are healed", i believe this is part of the gift Jesus bought for us, and not believing or saying "if its God will maybe he can heal" is not doing it justice.
- A big one for this, "if some of you are sick call the elder and pray for the person, and the person will heal" ok listen this is clear, the scripture is saying the prayer with faith result in healing, this is something they did always in the church it would seem.

- I believe this is the same as with the gifts and being filled with the Holy spirit, they are there but its our fault we are not using them or believing in them.

Opinions?

Do not let anyone talk you out of your faith in God and His promises.
E.W. Kenyon said he never tried to talk someone into believing. You let the word believe it for you. The scripture says God is faithful, and our faith springs from that. Just find what the word says, and agree in your heart.
Yes, "He heals all my diseases..."
Yes, "By His stripes we WERE healed..."
Yes, "The prayer of faith will raise him up..."
Yes, "I will be prosperous and in health even as my soul prospers..."
Dozens more. You see, I am not "trying" to believe... these words are true regardless of what I think or do. I just stand on them and say, "Yes... I am well able to take the land."

Bobber · Sep 4, 2023

Guojing said:
Would it better to just pray according to Philippians 4:6-7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, how our apostle Paul teaches us to do so?

Notice no promises of healing, just promises of the peace of God?

With all due respect what type of reasoning is this? Notice there is a promise of healing and I believe it has to mean physically in James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 [a]Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Guojing · Sep 4, 2023

Bobber said:
With all due respect what type of reasoning is this? Notice there is a promise of healing and I believe it has to mean physically in James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 [a]Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

You realize who James is writing to in James 1:1?

Which of the 12 tribes do you think you belong to?

Bobber · Sep 4, 2023

Guojing said:
You realize who James is writing to in James 1:1?

Which of the 12 tribes do you think you belong to?

You have got to be kidding. If you're going to claim the truth of the book of James only and exclusively belong to the 12 tribes of Israel and not to the Gentiles then you may as well cut it out of the Bible.

That means we the Gentiles can't ask God for wisdom who gives it all liberally....That means the expectations of how and why can believe you can receive from the Lord doesn't mean anything......James 1:7 That means we Gentiles don't have to submit to God and resist the devil and have us flee from us.....so that according to you belongs only the the 12 tribes of Israel? Or is ALL the truths in the book of James REALLY written to the chruch? I'd say it is. So remember what the 12 Tribes of Israel were to do with the message anyway......to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (or Gentiles)

Guojing · Sep 4, 2023

Bobber said:
You have got to be kidding. If you're going to claim the truth of the book of James only and exclusively belong to the 12 tribes of Israel and not to the Gentiles then you may as well cut it out of the Bible.

You don't build an ark even though God commanded Noah to build one in Genesis 6:14 correct?

But why don't you "cut it out of the Bible."?

Fervent · Sep 7, 2023

Guojing said:
You don't build an ark even though God commanded Noah to build one in Genesis 6:14 correct?

But why don't you "cut it out of the Bible."?

Which of the books of the Bible were written to you, or any other 21st century human being? Are you a Roman, or a Collosian, or a Philippian? Why does James' original audience, using an eschatological phrase that implies the re-united nation of israel rather than one that isolates it to the Jews only, make his book inapplicable but Paul's writing to specific churches not make it only applicable to those specific churches?

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 7, 2023

Fervent said:
Which of the books of the Bible were written to you, or any other 21st century human being? Are you a Roman, or a Collosian, or a Philippian? Why does James' original audience, using an eschatological phrase that implies the re-united nation of israel rather than one that isolates it to the Jews only, make his book inapplicable but Paul's writing to specific churches not make it only applicable to those specific churches?

Some things in the Bible are written for us to learn from, and other things are written to us to put into practice, We need to figure out which is which.

Fervent · Sep 7, 2023

Watchman1 said:
Some things in the Bible are written for us to learn from, and other things are written to us to put into practice, We need to figure out which is which.

Possibly, though inconsistently looking to the introductions to letters to restrict some to the specific addressee but others to a wider group than those specifically addressed hardly seems like a way to discriminate. Especially when the material in the letter that is attempting to be restricted appears far more generally applicable and less context sensitive than the material in the other letters.

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 7, 2023

Fervent said:
Possibly, though inconsistently looking to the introductions to letters to restrict some to the specific addressee but others to a wider group than those specifically addressed hardly seems like a way to discriminate. Especially when the material in the letter that is attempting to be restricted appears far more generally applicable and less context sensitive than the material in the other letters.

The letter to the Corinthians including every believer everywhere as well as to the Corinthians themselves. The fact that the collected letters of Paul were circulated around the churches during the time of his ministry and shortly afterward, shows that the Church in general believed that his letters were meant for all of them to read and follow. If a church did not experience the same issues as others, then the letters would be a good preparation to refer to when an issue did arise.

Fervent · Sep 7, 2023

Watchman1 said:
The letter to the Corinthians including every believer everywhere as well as to the Corinthians themselves. The fact that the collected letters of Paul were circulated around the churches during the time of his ministry and shortly afterward, shows that the Church in general believed that his letters were meant for all of them to read and follow. If a church did not experience the same issues as others, then the letters would be a good preparation to refer to when an issue did arise.

My objection isn't to the general application of the Pauline letters, but the inconsistency of treating letters that were addressed to specific churches and dealt with the specific issues in that particular church as universal in message while restricting James' letter which dealt with issues much less context specific and to a much broader audience on the basis of its greeting. If the greetings are sufficient reason not to apply a letter's content universally, then none of the letters of the New Testament can be applied beyond those who are mentioned in their greetings.

Guojing · Sep 7, 2023

Fervent said:
Which of the books of the Bible were written to you, or any other 21st century human being? Are you a Roman, or a Collosian, or a Philippian? Why does James' original audience, using an eschatological phrase that implies the re-united nation of israel rather than one that isolates it to the Jews only, make his book inapplicable but Paul's writing to specific churches not make it only applicable to those specific churches?

Romans to Philemon are written to me, but of course Paul was also writing to Israel in some of those passages, as well as writing to the Body of Christ in transition so one should learn to also rightly divide them. If you need examples of that, feel free to ask.

Guojing · Sep 7, 2023

Fervent said:
My objection isn't to the general application of the Pauline letters, but the inconsistency of treating letters that were addressed to specific churches and dealt with the specific issues in that particular church as universal in message while restricting James' letter which dealt with issues much less context specific and to a much broader audience on the basis of its greeting. If the greetings are sufficient reason not to apply a letter's content universally, then none of the letters of the New Testament can be applied beyond those who are mentioned in their greetings.

James 1:1 made it crystal clear who was he writing to.

Would you appreciate non-Americans picking up the writings to USA by your founding fathers, Franklin, Jefferson and Washington, and thinking that the words written there are directed to them in their own countries as well?

Fervent · Sep 7, 2023

Guojing said:
Romans to Philemon are written to me, but of course Paul was also writing to Israel in some of those passages, as well as writing to the Body of Christ in transition so one should learn to also rightly divide them. If you need examples of that, feel free to ask.

So you're a member of the church at Rome named Philemon?

Guojing · Sep 7, 2023

Fervent said:
So you're a member of the church at Rome named Philemon?

Romans 11:13 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Fervent · Sep 7, 2023

Guojing said:
Romans 11:13 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

That's far past the greeting of that letter, which is to the church at Rome which by your use of James greeting would restrict that portion of his letter to the gentiles in the church of Rome, a group which I presume you do not belong.

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