I am tempted to argue, that Evolution was true, other species would respond to the same selection?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So I am tempted to argue, that if Evolution was true, other species would respond to at least part of the selection pressure that Mankind responded to? Like we would see more species, becoming upright? Meer cats are one example, of a species becoming like humans, its just that they don't develop knowledge, by being upright - the selection pressure for more intelligence don't agree with the uprightness of meer cats, per se? I guess what I am trying to ask is, how does mankind redeem itself, from more selection pressures, than almost all of animal-kind would suggest is valid. There is a distinct difference to human adaptation.

I mean, it would be a God-send if humans could tap into what makes them human, but despite that I think God is the answer. It's as if faith in God, is faith in an invisible Evolution. It's the Emperor's clothes, through and through - at least without some statement, that God can use. I want God to use, everything I say and do for His Greater Glory, but Evolution - as it is - is a curveball: I don't see the point in it. You might say I am aphantasic (without visualisation) to Evolution. Maybe it can't be fixed? But then I am sub-human, for not believing in Evolution? I don't think God stands for that?

The thing that draws me in, is the idea that I could Evolve the human race, as much as it could be 'evolved'. I think that would be a good thing, in God's sight - not to question that I am ultimately doing His Will? The need to associate with "Evolution" would diminish, and I would have clearer objectives, for those that want to do the Will of God with me. I think this is possible, I think this is a motivated thought - that there is a thing, such a thing, as sharing the same motive, in the pursuit of difference. As Proverbs said, a man with a friend, can get help when he is down. There is something a lot less domineering, than keeping Evolution to yourself.

Over time, similar motives, will create its own kind of Evolution (selah).

What do you think?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi there,

So I am tempted to argue, that if Evolution was true, other species would respond to at least part of the selection pressure that Mankind responded to? Like we would see more species, becoming upright? Meer cats are one example, of a species becoming like humans, its just that they don't develop knowledge, by being upright - the selection pressure for more intelligence don't agree with the uprightness of meer cats, per se? I guess what I am trying to ask is, how does mankind redeem itself, from more selection pressures, than almost all of animal-kind would suggest is valid. There is a distinct difference to human adaptation.

I mean, it would be a God-send if humans could tap into what makes them human, but despite that I think God is the answer. It's as if faith in God, is faith in an invisible Evolution. It's the Emperor's clothes, through and through - at least without some statement, that God can use. I want God to use, everything I say and do for His Greater Glory, but Evolution - as it is - is a curveball: I don't see the point in it. You might say I am aphantasic (without visualisation) to Evolution. Maybe it can't be fixed? But then I am sub-human, for not believing in Evolution? I don't think God stands for that?

The thing that draws me in, is the idea that I could Evolve the human race, as much as it could be 'evolved'. I think that would be a good thing, in God's sight - not to question that I am ultimately doing His Will? The need to associate with "Evolution" would diminish, and I would have clearer objectives, for those that want to do the Will of God with me. I think this is possible, I think this is a motivated thought - that there is a thing, such a thing, as sharing the same motive, in the pursuit of difference. As Proverbs said, a man with a friend, can get help when he is down. There is something a lot less domineering, than keeping Evolution to yourself.



What do you think?

I think evolution is a man made theory that deceives. "God's will "has no part in this deception. It is His enemy. It claims that man was not made in His image and that His creation , some considered as "animals", have no distinction.
Be blessed.

My vote: none

 

[chilehed]

So I am tempted to argue, that if Evolution was true, other species would respond to at least part of the selection pressure that Mankind responded to? Like we would see more species, becoming upright?

That merely shows once again that you very poorly understand how evolution works.

 

[The Barbarian]

There certainly are examples of widely-different organisms evolving in response to the same selective pressures:

Fish:

Mammals:

Reptiles:

Birds:

 

[The Barbarian]

In fact, fish make up five of the nine vertebrate classes. Of the five, both Chondricthyes and Osteicthyes have evolved to fast swimming in water. I included Chondricthyes, but left out Osteicthyes:

 

[Gottservant]

Yes, that does look like Evolution, actually.

I can't quite believe it to the exclusion of Creation, but we have a common selection pressure - the pressure to breathe underwater - and many responses to it.

I think that if we look closer though, Evolution doesn't explain the variety of differences as cross-pollinating; if you thought Evolution caused lineages to bleed and integrate, a shared selection pressure would be all that was needed to justify one species mating with another.

What's interesting is that Evolution results in many attempts at adaptation - there is more to the agency of an individual Evolution, than Evolutionists let on?

Either Evolution is the lens by which species see their own survival, or design is at odds with the imprint that creates Evolutionary predators - it may be speculated.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes, that does look like Evolution, actually.

Descent with modification. There it is. But under natural selection you get the same results, even if it's by modification of different structures.

I can't quite believe it to the exclusion of Creation,

It is creation. This is how God made organisms able to adapt.

but we have a common selection pressure - the pressure to breathe underwater

To move swiftly underwater. Only two of these actually have no need to breath air.

I think that if we look closer though, Evolution doesn't explain the variety of differences as cross-pollinating;

No, that's wrong. Occasionally, hybridization does indeed produce a new species. But that's not usually the way it happens. We do have some examples, though.

if you thought Evolution caused lineages to bleed and integrate, a shared selection pressure would be all that was needed to justify one species mating with another.

Justice has nothing to do with it.

What's interesting is that Evolution results in many attempts at adaptation

There's no more attempt at adaptation, than water attempts a way to run downhill or warm air attempts to rise in a clockwise pattern in the Northern Hemisphere.

is there is more to the agency of an individual Evolution, than Evolutionists let on?

God made it pretty simple. Random mutation and natural selection. He seems to like things that way.

Either Evolution is the lens by which species see their own survival,

No more than water seeks to run downhill. It might look like intent. But there is none other than God's will involved.

or design is at odds with the imprint that creates Evolutionary predators

Only if you mean something other than God's creative intent. If you mean "planning" or "consideration", that would be something God has no need to do.

it may be speculated.

It is disrespectful to attribute imperfection to God, although His creations may not be "perfect" from man's limited perspective.

Even God was unwilling to call it "perfect", telling us that it was merely "very good."

 

[Gottservant]

Justice has nothing to do with it

Without justice, there is no meaning.

There's no more attempt at adaptation, than water attempts a way to run downhill or warm air attempts to rise in a clockwise pattern in the Northern Hemisphere.

Yes but the "rate" at which a species mates, affects how fast it discovers its "evolution"; if a particular member of a species matches that "rate" in anticipation, it can even predict which evolution will most likely develop?

Even God was unwilling to call it "perfect", telling us that it was merely "very good."

Shrewd.

 

[The Barbarian]

Without justice, there is no meaning.

No. Nature isn't just at all. Yet nature is not meaningless. This is the issue described by Solomon in Ecclesiastes:

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I turned me to another thing, and I saw that under the sun, the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, nor bread to the wise, nor riches to the learned, nor favour to the skillful: but time and chance in all.

[QUOTE="Gottservant, post: 76017218, member: 158134"]Yes but the "rate" at which a species mates, affects how fast it discovers its "evolution";[/quote]

You have it backwards. The mutations, if they are to matter, affect how likely one is to reproduce before dying.

if a particular member of a species matches that "rate" in anticipation, it can even predict which evolution will most likely develop?

Luria and Delbruck got their Nobels for showing that useful mutations don't appear according to need. So no.

 

[The Barbarian]

Even God was unwilling to call it "perfect", telling us that it was merely "very good."

Shrewd.

Omniscient, actually.

 

[Gottservant]

Luria and Delbruck got their Nobels for showing that useful mutations don't appear according to need. So no.

Interesting.

But doesn't that fly in the face of the idea, that the right selection pressure forces the hand of usefulness?

Need is subjective, after all.

 

[The Barbarian]

Interesting.

But doesn't that fly in the face of the idea, that the right selection pressure forces the hand of usefulness?

No. If that were true, most species would have survived. And the vast majority of the species that have been, are extinct.

Need is subjective, after all.

Not to them, it wasn't.