I am stuck thinking I need to prove faith to Evolutionists, when the Bible says "they're deluded"

Job 33:6

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Not at all. Read John 1. He made everything. No making everything without a thorough understanding of biology, chemistry, physics, you name it.

But this verse doesn't suggest that Jesus had infinite knowledge of these things. The Father created, but Jesus was born a man who had to grow and learn just like any other person. Scripture says nothing about Jesus being a master of various fields of science nor that Jesus knew of future scientific discoveries or even that Jesus was wholly familiar with the past.

Hebrews 5:8
Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

Luke 2:52
And Jesus (A)increased in wisdom and stature, (B)and in favor with God and men.

He had to, and I quote "learn" and "increase in wisdom". He wasn't just born out of the womb some super-einstein with infinite knowledge of molecular biology and astrophysics. But rather, Jesus was human and with this came human limitations to His knowledge.

What you're doing is you're taking a very small and vague amount of information from scripture and you're extrapolating miles and miles beyond anything that scripture states. Then you're further accepting that extrapolation without any external evidence based corroboration, and you're accepting all of this in circular reasoning where you're accepting the bible because the bible says something that the bible says is true that the bible says etc.

This line of reasoning and argument is just a mess. And with that, there is really no point in continuing in conversation. I'll give you the last word.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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But this verse doesn't suggest that Jesus had infinite knowledge of these things. The Father created, but Jesus was born a man who had to grow and learn just like any other person. Scripture says nothing about Jesus being a master of various fields of science nor that Jesus knew of future scientific discoveries.
You are wrong. It says Jesus created. Without Jesus was nothing made that was made.

By the way, do you think the laws of physics and chemistry only went into effect after they were discovered? It seems like it because you say Jesus had to “anticipate” future scientific discovery as though he only learned about them when man did.

Ergo he had and still has superior knowledge of physics, chemistry, biology, etc. Otherwise He could haven’t created a thing. Read the text again. The Word that became flesh created.
What you're doing is you're taking a very small and vague amount of information from scripture and you're extrapolating miles and miles beyond anything that scripture states. Then you're further accepting that extrapolation without any external evidence based corroboration, and you're accepting all of this in circular reasoning where you're accepting the bible because the bible says something that the bible says is true that the bible says etc.
Wrong on all accounts. No one creates worlds without extensive knowledge. This you deny. Second I am not one of those Christians who believe the Bible because the Bible says it is true. That IS circular thinking so you are right. Anything I believe to be true is because of direct evidence or reasonable conclusions based on evidence.
This line of reasoning and argument is just a mess.
I agree but that’s not my line of reasoning.
 
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lifepsyop

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But this verse doesn't suggest that Jesus had infinite knowledge of these things. The Father created, but Jesus was born a man who had to grow and learn just like any other person. Scripture says nothing about Jesus being a master of various fields of science nor that Jesus knew of future scientific discoveries or even that Jesus was wholly familiar with the past.

Hebrews 5:8
Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

Luke 2:52
And Jesus (A)increased in wisdom and stature, (B)and in favor with God and men.

He had to, and I quote "learn" and "increase in wisdom". He wasn't just born out of the womb some super-einstein with infinite knowledge of molecular biology and astrophysics. But rather, Jesus was human and with this came human limitations to His knowledge.

What you're doing is you're taking a very small and vague amount of information from scripture and you're extrapolating miles and miles beyond anything that scripture states. Then you're further accepting that extrapolation without any external evidence based corroboration, and you're accepting all of this in circular reasoning where you're accepting the bible because the bible says something that the bible says is true that the bible says etc.

And by this logic, Jesus was also simply parroting what he read about future prophecy and didn't actually know if any of it was true... He was simply repeating what some ancient scribes wrote. Did he know what he was talking about when he signed his death certificate before the Sanhedrin by announcing his own fulfillment of Daniel 7:13?

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
- Matthew 26:64





You reference the child Jesus having to increase in wisdom as he grew...

At his baptism, Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit of truth. Do you really think he didn't understand what he was talking about when he later compared his prophetic return to the days of Noah? (Matthew 24) Or maybe he was just deliberately spreading misinformation so as not to offend the disciples?

Is it really worth going this far just to uphold a belief in Evolution and uniformitarian philosophy?


When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.” - Luke 3:21-22

Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry. And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’ ” - Luke 4:1-4




Maybe Jesus was just winging it when he proclaimed he was the fulfillment of scripture?
Really... did he know these things were true or not?




So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth. And they said, “Is this not Joseph’s son?”
Luke 4:16-22



You can get a sense of the same disbelieving attitude in the audience. "Surely this is just a man... how can he really know these things... he is just a student like us... what is his authority to say such things?"

But Jesus did have authority. Because He was the Son of God, and one with God.
He was the Word made Flesh. (John 1)

Is it becoming clear what a problem it is, when you begin claiming that Jesus didn't really know what he was talking about. But you have to do these things in order to harmonize theistic-evolution.

It ends up being a fundamentally different belief-system separate from the Gospel with Jesus Christ, the beginning and the end, for He was before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Colossians 1:17)



For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47
 
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Job 33:6

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And by this logic, Jesus was also simply parroting what he read about future prophecy.

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
- Matthew 26:64

When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.” - Luke 3:21-22

Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry. And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’ ” - Luke 4:1-4

Maybe Jesus was just winging it when he proclaimed he was the fulfillment of scripture?
Really... did he know these things were true or not?

So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

But Jesus did have authority. Because He was the Son of God, and one with God.
He was the Word made Flesh. (John 1)

For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47

I wouldn't call what Jesus was doing "Parroting". Rather, I'd call it "quoting" and "teaching". Does a pastor "parrot" when he quotes scripture? No, he's just teaching the Word.

Mathew 26:64 has nothing to do with explicit details of creation.

Luke 3:21-22, the Holy spirit descended unto Him. This is all fine, but again, nothing to do with explicit details of creation.

Luke 4:1-4, so Jesus is stating that every man shall live by the word of God. Ok, great, still nothing to do with Jesus knowing explicit details of creation.

John 1, ok, Jesus has divine authority. I agree. Still nothing to do with Him knowing explicit details of creation.

It's quite simple. Jesus can speak of truth, while still having limitations in His awareness of past, present or future concepts and events.

There is a difference in the question of If God created the universe and How God created the universe. Jesus clearly indicates full awareness that in the beginning, God created. But there is no language in scripture that suggests that Jesus knew any exceptional details about how this unfolded. And while divine aspects of Jesus may be eternal, when Jesus came in human form to spread the gospel, with few exceptions, he relieved himself of things such as omniscience and omnipotence. He took on the form of man, limited in space and time as well.

Mathew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

Some things Jesus simply didn't know. That doesn't make Jesus any less divine. While Jesus was divine, he was also fully man and experienced human limitations. Jesus was not infinitely powerful, he experienced pain just like us. Jesus needed to eat food because he would get hungry (Mark 11:12), and he would become tired (John 4:6). Jesus experienced human limitations. And limitations in omniscience is no exception. And scripture affirms this with these above verses, among others, and the simple absence of verses giving detailed accounts on OT events makes sense in light of this.

What you're doing is you're taking one or two vague verses, and extrapolating those verses to really extreme lengths. "God created the Universe, therefore Jesus knows molecular biology and astrophysics."

Nothing in scripture supports such a conclusion. And of course beyond that, it's still just more circular reasoning anyway to say "The bible says X and X is true because the Bible says so".

It's all the same. Extra-biblical conclusions made without scriptural support, and even worse, it's all encompassed in circular reasoning where the Bible proves the Bible proves the Bible without any external corroboration.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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And by this logic, Jesus was also simply parroting what he read about future prophecy and didn't actually know if any of it was true... He was simply repeating what some ancient scribes wrote. Did he know what he was talking about when he signed his death certificate before the Sanhedrin by announcing his own fulfillment of Daniel 7:13?

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
- Matthew 26:64





You reference the child Jesus having to increase in wisdom as he grew...

At his baptism, Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit of truth. Do you really think he didn't understand what he was talking about when he later compared his prophetic return to the days of Noah? (Matthew 24) Or maybe he was just deliberately spreading misinformation so as not to offend the disciples?

Is it really worth going this far just to uphold a belief in Evolution and uniformitarian philosophy?


When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.” - Luke 3:21-22

Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry. And the devil said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’ ” - Luke 4:1-4




Maybe Jesus was just winging it when he proclaimed he was the fulfillment of scripture?
Really... did he know these things were true or not?




So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth. And they said, “Is this not Joseph’s son?”
Luke 4:16-22



You can get a sense of the same disbelieving attitude in the audience. "Surely this is just a man... how can he really know these things... he is just a student like us... what is his authority to say such things?"

But Jesus did have authority. Because He was the Son of God, and one with God.
He was the Word made Flesh. (John 1)

Is it becoming clear what a problem it is, when you begin claiming that Jesus didn't really know what he was talking about. But you have to do these things in order to harmonize theistic-evolution.

It ends up being a fundamentally different belief-system separate from the Gospel with Jesus Christ, the beginning and the end, for He was before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Colossians 1:17)



For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47
I am sorry that KomatiteBIF just laughed at your thoughtful post. But you’re in good company. They laughed at and mocked Jesus so rejoice that you are counted worthy to endure the same that Jesus suffered. You are literally sharing in His sufferings, very rare today.
 
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lifepsyop

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Mathew 26:64 has nothing to do with explicit details of creation.

Luke 3:21-22, the Holy spirit descended unto Him. This is all fine, but again, nothing to do with explicit details of creation.

Luke 4:1-4, so Jesus is stating that every man shall live by the word of God. Ok, great, still nothing to do with Jesus knowing explicit details of creation.

John 1, ok, Jesus has divine authority. I agree. Still nothing to do with Him knowing explicit details of creation.

It's quite simple. Jesus can speak of truth, while still having limitations in His awareness of past, present or future concepts and events.

There is a difference in the question of If God created the universe and How God created the universe. Jesus clearly indicates full awareness that in the beginning, God created. But there is no language in scripture that suggests that Jesus knew any exceptional details about how this unfolded. And while divine aspects of Jesus may be eternal, when Jesus came in human form to spread the gospel, with few exceptions, he relieved himself of things such as omniscience and omnipotence. He took on the form of man, limited in space and time as well.

Mathew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

Some things Jesus simply didn't know. That doesn't make Jesus any less divine. While Jesus was divine, he was also fully man and experienced human limitations. Jesus was not infinitely powerful, he experienced pain just like us. Jesus needed to eat food because he would get hungry (Mark 11:12), and he would become tired (John 4:6). Jesus experienced human limitations. And limitations in omniscience is no exception. And scripture affirms this with these above verses, among others, and the simple absence of verses giving detailed accounts on OT events makes sense in light of this.

What you're doing is you're taking one or two vague verses, and extrapolating those verses to really extreme lengths. "God created the Universe, therefore Jesus knows molecular biology and astrophysics."

Nothing in scripture supports such a conclusion. And of course beyond that, it's still just more circular reasoning anyway to say "The bible says X and X is true because the Bible says so".

It's all the same. Extra-biblical conclusions made without scriptural support, and even worse, it's all encompassed in circular reasoning where the Bible proves the Bible proves the Bible without any external corroboration.

I suppose even the resurrected Christ who conquered death itself could only dream of being as enlightened to earth's true history by 17th-19th century natural philosophers?

Your argument boils down to "Jesus didn't really know..."

What is left to argue at this point?

If you're claiming that the Son of God is not an authority on what is true or not, then we follow completely different faith systems.
 
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Job 33:6

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I suppose even the resurrected Christ who conquered death itself could only dream of being as enlightened to earth's true history by 17th-19th century natural philosophers?

Your argument boils down to "Jesus didn't really know..."

What is left to argue at this point?

If you're claiming that the Son of God is not an authority on what is true or not, then we follow completely different faith systems.

Your responses appears to boil down to "I can't accept anything but omniscience of Jesus, despite declarations by Jesus such as in Matthew 24:36".

Regardless of what the implications are, this is just unacceptable. We have to first agree that Jesus was not omniscient during his time among us as man. Then secondly, we have to agree that nothing in scripture, nor in external records or evidence, suggests that Jesus knew fine details of the creation account of Genesis. And thirdly, physical evidence in geology suggests that such a global flood never actually occurred, lending credence to the position that Jesus was not omniscient, as suggested by Matthew 24:36, Hebrews 5:8, Like 2:52, or that Jesus was not omnipotent, as suggested by Mark 11:12 or John 4:6.

But in fact, Jesus abdicated Himself of these infinite divine attributes upon coming to down to us as man.

Like I said before. There is a question of If in the beginning, God created Adam and Eve, or flooded the earth. And there is a question of How God, in the beginning, created Adam and Eve or flooded the earth.

Jesus demonstrated clear knowledge of some things (If God, in the beginning, created), while also demonstrating physical human limitations of other things, including limitations of knowledge (How, in the beginning, God created). Which is to say that Jesus, at least as He walked among us, was not omniscient.

But Jesus not being omniscient doesn't remove Him from being an authority on truth. Jesus told people what they needed to hear, at a time and place, for salvation. Jesus never claimed to be infinite in knowledge and awareness. Jesus never sat down and wrote a book on quantum mechanics. And while perhaps he wouldn't have known these things, at the same time Jesus never really needed to know these things to accomplish what He was sent to do.

Jesus knew what He needed to know to carry out His mission. No more and no less. And assuming anything beyond this, is extra-biblical. It's an extrapolation that, as mentioned before, lacks scriptural and external corroborating evidence.

And beyond all this, beyond analysis of scripture, we still have to contend with the physical creation and it's own evidence that such a global flood simply never occurred, as observed through geology.

And that's that.
 
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lifepsyop

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Your responses appears to boil down to "I can't accept anything but omniscience of Jesus, despite declarations by Jesus such as in Matthew 24:36".

Regardless of what the implications are, this is just unacceptable. We have to first agree that Jesus was not omniscient during his time among us as man. Then secondly, we have to agree that nothing in scripture, nor in external records or evidence, suggests that Jesus knew fine details of the creation account of Genesis. And thirdly, physical evidence in geology suggests that such a global flood never actually occurred, lending credence to the position that Jesus was not omniscient, as suggested by Matthew 24:36, Hebrews 5:8, Like 2:52, or that Jesus was not omnipotent, as suggested by Mark 11:12 or John 4:6.

But in fact, Jesus abdicated Himself of these infinite divine attributes upon coming to down to us as man.

Like I said before. There is a question of If in the beginning, God created Adam and Eve, or flooded the earth. And there is a question of How God, in the beginning, created Adam and Eve or flooded the earth.

Jesus demonstrated clear knowledge of some things (If God, in the beginning, created), while also demonstrating physical human limitations of other things, including limitations of knowledge (How, in the beginning, God created). Which is to say that Jesus, at least as He walked among us, was not omniscient.

But Jesus not being omniscient doesn't remove Him from being an authority on truth. Jesus told people what they needed to hear, at a time and place, for salvation.

Jesus never claimed to be infinite in knowledge and awareness. Jesus never sat down and wrote a book on quantum mechanics. And while perhaps he wouldn't have known these things, at the same time Jesus never really needed to know these things to accomplish what He was sent to do.

In Matthew Ch.24, Jesus goes into great detail describing the end of the world.
This is our Lord Messiah, King of the Universe, describing the end of the world.
Do we believe that he is speaking from authority, or do we just say he was blindly/ignorantly repeating ancient prophecies?

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. - Matthew 24:30

He knew himself to be the fulfillment of scripture. He knew in advance the day he would be crucified. He knew the specific timeline of cosmic and earthly events leading up to the end of the world. (and compared the end of the world to the days of Noah).... But he knew nothing more than the next scribe when it came to the past?

For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47

The Gospels contradict your characterization of Jesus.

Jesus knew what He needed to know to carry out His mission. No more and no less. And assuming anything beyond this, is extra-biblical. It's an extrapolation that, as mentioned before, lacks scriptural and external corroborating evidence.

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
- Matthew 6:28-29

Are you familiar with the intricate design of Solomon's temple? Now I wonder why Jesus would think the design of a dinky little flower was more impressive? Something tells me the Lord of the Universe knew a little more about the physical creation than some naturalist philosophers.

And beyond all this, beyond analysis of scripture, we still have to contend with the physical creation and it's own evidence that such a global flood simply never occurred, as observed through geology.

It is you who has to contend with your faith in naturalist philosophy versus faith in God's revealed word and the testimony of the prophets, apostles, and the Lord Christ.

Your interpretation of geology is filtered through your naturalist philosophy. We always filter data through our overarching worldviews. It is especially those who pretend to be objective fact-finding machines unaffected by ideology, who are most vulnerable to being blinded by their own confirmation bias.
 
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Job 33:6

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Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
- Matthew 6:28-29

Are you familiar with the intricate design of Solomon's temple? Now I wonder why Jesus would think the design of a dinky little flower was more impressive? Something tells me the Lord of the Universe knew a little more about the physical creation than some naturalist philosophers.

This is the best response I've read yet. And yet, it too doesn't tell us much of anything.

"Something tells me the Lord of the Universe knew a little more"

I say that this "something" is nothing more than your imagination, because clearly there is nothing in scripture that you have quoted that displays what that something more even is.

You can't even quote what you're trying to express, because there is nothing in scripture to even quote to justify the thought. You merely are expressing your personal feelings on the topic.

And yes, as noted before, Jesus had some divine knowledge of some things. But He clearly was not omniscient and did not know All things. So if you want to make a case for why you think Jesus understood molecular biology, then you need more than just your imagination and a single verse where Jesus describes the array of lilies. Because let's be honest about this, a single sentence about an array of lilies is a long shot from any technical description of anything.

Again, this is nothing more than extra-Biblical extrapolation. You're basing your view of scripture not on scripture itself, but rather some imagined extension that isn't backed by scripture nor backed by observations of creation through scientific inquiry.
 
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lifepsyop

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This is the best response I've read yet. And yet, it too doesn't tell us much of anything.

"Something tells me the Lord of the Universe knew a little more"

I say that this "something" is nothing more than your imagination, because clearly there is nothing in scripture that you have quoted that displays what that something more even is.

You can't even quote what you're trying to express, because there is nothing in scripture to even quote to justify the thought. You merely are expressing your personal feelings on the topic.

And yes, as noted before, Jesus had some divine knowledge of some things. But He clearly was not omniscient and did not know All things. So if you want to make a case for why you think Jesus understood molecular biology, then you need more than just your imagination and a single verse where Jesus describes the array of lilies. Because let's be honest about this, a single sentence about an array of lilies is a long shot from any technical description of anything.

Again, this is nothing more than extra-Biblical extrapolation. You're basing your view of scripture not on scripture itself, but rather some imagined extension that isn't backed by scripture nor backed by observations of creation through scientific inquiry.

So when Jesus says something that offends you then your response is: "...he didn't have divine knowledge on that subject..." What an interesting hermeneutic.

Fascinating isn't it? The prophets, the apostles, and Jesus clearly believed and attested to the Biblical history you deny... yet I'm the one making extra-Biblical extrapolations by believing what is written consistently all throughout the Old and New Testaments.

The Lord, the Alpha and Omega, who in Matthew ch.24 explained in detail how the world would end, had zero knowledge how the world began? Is that right? Or was Jesus just ignorantly spouting prophetic fables about the end-times? I am genuinely curious of your point of view here.

And these verses? Did Jesus say this?

For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47

What's really funny is that Jesus was literally the commander of molecular reality (water into wine, storms into calm, bread out of nothing, dead to life, etc.) and yet you rank him among the most ignorant, knowing nothing more of the physical world than the scribes around him.
 
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Gottservant

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Not at all. Read John 1. He made everything. No making everything without a thorough understanding of biology, chemistry, physics, you name it.

My prideful self is reluctant to believe this, but on the other hand it is clearly "of faith".

Without Him: nothing that was made was made.

That includes knowledge!
 
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This is the best response I've read yet. And yet, it too doesn't tell us much of anything.

"Something tells me the Lord of the Universe knew a little more"

I say that this "something" is nothing more than your imagination, because clearly there is nothing in scripture that you have quoted that displays what that something more even is.

Don't be too quick to throw out the bathwater (you might throw out the baby).

Jesus could easily learn biology, when He returns.

There's a difference there that scientists could learn from, actually: waiting is sometimes worth more than discovering.
 
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Job 33:6

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The prophets, the apostles, and Jesus clearly believed and attested to the Biblical history you deny... yet I'm the one making extra-Biblical extrapolations by believing what is written consistently all throughout the Old and New Testaments.

And these verses? Did Jesus say this?

For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47

What's really funny is that Jesus was literally the commander of molecular reality (water into wine, storms into calm, bread out of nothing, dead to life, etc.)

Asking me questions does not help your own shortcomings and lack of evidence.

And yes, what you're doing is truly imagining extra-biblical concepts that are completely absent from scripture. Hence why you keep providing me with random verses about arrays of lilies and Jesus turning water into wine. The verse about Jesus conducting a miracle does not suggest that Jesus was omniscient, nor does it clarify on what Jesus actually knew. A broad statement about an array of lilies likewise does not equate to knowledge of microbiology. What you're doing is you're imagining things beyond scripture.

There is nothing in scripture that indicates that Jesus had knowledge of things such as astro physics or molecular biology. You've simply made this up in your own mind.

And as mentioned before, you're also basing your beliefs off of circular reasoning. This is true because the bible says it's true because the bible says it's true because the bible says it's true etc. But there is no external corroboration of your imagined ideas.

Jesus wasn't omniscient, nor was He omnipotent. He abdicated these divine attributes when He took on the form of man.

Jesus was not omniscient, as suggested by Matthew 24:36, Hebrews 5:8, Like 2:52, and Jesus Jesus was not omnipotent, as suggested by Mark 11:12 or John 4:6. He grew hungry when he didn't eat. He grew tired when he didn't rest. He grew and learned. And if it couldn't be all the more obvious, he even openly declared an instance in which he was limited in knowledge.

Matthew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

It is a fact that there are things that Jesus simply didn't know with respect to creation. It's right there in scripture.

Given the above, it is unreasonable to simply assume, without scriptural backing and without external corroboration, that Jesus was for practical purposes, all knowing with respect to creation.

And to make matters worse, not only is there an absence of scriptural backing for this conclusion you've made, and not only is there a lack of external corroborating evidence, but investigation of creation (Earth) has demonstrated that a Global never occurred.

You've taken scripture so literally, that you've come to conclude things that scripture doesn't actually say.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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My prideful self is reluctant to believe this, but on the other hand it is clearly "of faith".

Without Him: nothing that was made was made.

That includes knowledge!
Knowledge is not a thing that is made. The Bible says he made the material world or energy if you prefer. He did not make good or evil, trust, love, honor, truth or any of the non-material elements.
 
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Job 33:6

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Don't be too quick to throw out the bathwater (you might throw out the baby).

Jesus could easily learn biology, when He returns.

There's a difference there that scientists could learn from, actually: waiting is sometimes worth more than discovering.

I think it makes sense that when Jesus left His physical body, that He also would have left the limitations of that body. There's no reason to think that Jesus would experience hunger in heaven. And likewise, limitations of the physical body would be gone, both with respect to omnipotence and omniscience.

So I don't think that He would need to learn biology when He returns. I think that He would already know anything and everything before that time came. And He could have already known anything and everything since the moment of His separation from the physical world. Just as it was in the Beginning.
 
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The Barbarian

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YRead "The Beak of the Finch." Populations normally undergo stasis, which is usually an active equilibrium between two different phenotypes. The finches of Daphne Major, changing back and forth between conditions of wet and drought years, are a good example.

And that's it? They just change back and forth, like a machine?

No. It's a common misconception that organisms merely evolve in response to environment. But environments are also altered by organisms. So it's more complicated than that. Drought will favor birds with larger beak (to collect tougher seeds), but it will also change the populations of seed-bearing plants. I did a lot of work in grad school on the way predator/prey populations vary back and forth under different conditions. It's not machine-like in the least. Would you like to learn about that?

There is no "devolution." All change in allele frequences is "evolution."

Evolution has no opposite?

Stasis. Darwin talked about it. When a population is well-fitted in a constant environment, natural selection acts to slow down or halt evolution.

The original change from dormancy, was unmotivated?

You think blood circulation is "unmotivated?"
 
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Walk together

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I know how you feel it is always very disappointing when we try to share the word of God and it falls on deaf ears. The day will come when the deaf will hear God's judgment and it will be said to them that they were warned. You can only do your best and leave the outcome to God.
 
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The Barbarian

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I know how you feel it is always very disappointing when we try to share the word of God and it falls on deaf ears. The day will come when the deaf will hear God's judgment and it will be said to them that they were warned. You can only do your best and leave the outcome to God.

The good news for them is that God doesn't care if they approve of evolution or not. That's not how He will judge them.

So creationists, unless they make an idol of their own thinking, are no less likely to be saved than other Christians.
 
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Gottservant

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I am tempted to say that "macro-evolution" does happen, within the boundaries of a specific species. But I feel foolish, because I have no idea what that would mean? The point being, that if you are not faithful in what is least - as concerns macro-evolution - you will not be faithful in what is most.

What is "most", in terms of Evolution? Faithfully "most" means what?

One is good, that's what Jesus said, "that is God". In other words, don't theorize needlessly!
 
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