I am Obsessed with Paul’s Gospel — Here’s Why!

[d taylor]

In the time of the Gentiles, you have the Gentile apostle (Paul) preaching the Cross.
He is not preaching 34 Gospels, he is preaching 1.
"The Cross".
2 Timothy 2:8 King James Version
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Why stop reading at verse 8 try going down to verse 10
obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

Not in the cross or resurrection but the free gift of Eternal Life is in and has and will always be in the The Messiah.

 

[d taylor]

In the time of the Gentiles, you have the Gentile apostle (Paul) preaching the Cross.
He is not preaching 34 Gospels, he is preaching 1.
"The Cross".
2 Timothy 2:8 King James Version
8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

It is just perplexing in this day and age, how many people are trying to replace The Messiah as the source of Eternal Life. With a cross, resurrection, baptism, repenting, obedience, being a member of a church, doing some good work or works, etc...

 

[Behold]

Why stop reading at verse 8 try going down to verse 10
obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

Not in the cross or resurrection but the free gift of Eternal Life is in and has and will always be in the The Messiah.

No Cross = No Messiah.

Paul said, "we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED".
Paul said. ""For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Paul said...."Jesus sent me NOT to water baptize".

So, its the CROSS where you find "the finished work of Jesus" that is explained as : John 3:16.

Jesus is indeed Eternal Life, but its at the CROSS where God joins you to Himself.

No Cross = no salvation.
No Cross = no eternal life.

Jesus said, ""you must be BORN AGAIN"", and that happens because OF The Cross, and the Blood that was shed on THE CROSS.

 

[Guojing]

No.
John was writing to believers who were being taught false doctrine. Over and over again he says "I write this so that you will KNOW".

Where do you get the idea that he was writing to Israel?


Says who?
What about the Gospels and the things Jesus taught - they aren't Christian doctrine??



Well I'm sorry, but if you don't think that, "God is love", 1 John 4:8, "This is how we know what love is; Jesus Christ died for us", 1 John 3:16, or "see how much love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God", 1 John 3:1 - all of which is repeated elsewhere in the NT - is doctrine or is for us, it's not surprising that you are having problems with the Gospel.

You say that only Paul's epistles are doctrine; Paul wrote about the cross in these epistles.
John wrote about the cross, same as Paul - therefore, John wrote doctrine.

I already quoted Galatians 2:7-9 to indicate that John was sent to the circumcision

John wrote doctrine yes but it is doctrine during the tribulation

John preached Jesus according to prophecy

Paul preached Jesus according to the mystery.

 

[Guojing]

No Cross = No Messiah.

Paul said, "we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED".
Paul said. ""For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Paul said...."Jesus sent me NOT to water baptize".

So, its the CROSS where you find "the finished work of Jesus" that is explained as : John 3:16.

Jesus is indeed Eternal Life, but its at the CROSS where God joins you to Himself.

No Cross = no salvation.
No Cross = no eternal life.

Jesus said, ""you must be BORN AGAIN"", and that happens because OF The Cross, and the Blood that was shed on THE CROSS.

john 3:16 is not about the cross. If you have that impression, you are reading Paul into that verse

The understanding of believe in that verse is based on John 20:31

 

[Behold]

john 3:16 is not about the cross. If you have that impression, you are reading Paul into that verse

The understanding of believe in that verse is based on John 20:31

Go here :

John 3:16

 

[Guojing]

Go here :

John 3:16

The gospel of the kingdom was not based on the cross.

you are reading Paul into that passage.

 

[Behold]

The gospel of the kingdom was not based on the cross.

you are reading Paul into that passage.

You have mixed your dispensations together..
See, in the time of the Gentiles, we preach the "Kingdom of GOD".
This gospel is regarding a spiritual Kingdom of LIGHT and Righteousness.
"we are translated from Darkness to LIGHT".
Jesus is "the LIGHT of the WORLD".
The born again are "children of the LIGHT".

There is a literal kingdom and there is a spiritual kingdom.

The "Preaching of the CROSS", gains a believer entrance into the "Kingdom of God".
This is a Spiritual Kingdom that we are BORN AGAIN INTO.....

 

[Guojing]

You have mixed your dispensations together..
See, in the time of the Gentiles, we preach the "Kingdom of GOD".
This gospel is regarding a spiritual Kingdom of LIGHT and Righteousness.
"we are translated from Darkness to LIGHT".
Jesus is "the LIGHT of the WORLD".
The born again are "children of the LIGHT".

There is a literal kingdom and there is a spiritual kingdom.

The "Preaching of the CROSS", gains a believer entrance into the "Kingdom of God".
This is a Spiritual Kingdom that we are BORN AGAIN INTO.....

Here is the scriptural proof of my point.

Let’s go to Luke 9:6. The gospel that the 12 are preaching in that verse, you think its about the cross of Christ?

 

[d taylor]

No Cross = No Messiah.

Paul said, "we preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED".
Paul said. ""For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."
Paul said...."Jesus sent me NOT to water baptize".

So, its the CROSS where you find "the finished work of Jesus" that is explained as : John 3:16.

Jesus is indeed Eternal Life, but its at the CROSS where God joins you to Himself.

No Cross = no salvation.
No Cross = no eternal life.

Jesus said, ""you must be BORN AGAIN"", and that happens because OF The Cross, and the Blood that was shed on THE CROSS.

Jesus dying (at the cross) and being resurrected, took away the sin of the world.
What does this mean that no one, any unbeliever will be sent to the lake of fire because of their sin.

The unbeliever goes to the lake of fire because they never accepted Gods free gift of Eternal Life, that was offered through believing in The promised Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

The cross does not factor into this area.

Being that a person can believe in The Messiah for Eternal Life, without ever having to have heard of, The Messiah dying on the cross.

The only condition given by God, to receive Gods gift of Eternal Life. Is faith in the one and only object and that one object is The Messiah, The Messiah is the narrow door.
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

You can preach the cross all you want, and teach this nonexistent Gospel change by Paul.

But i will continue to tell people that Eternal Life is by faith in The promised Messiah and i will do this from the Gospel of John.

As John 20:31 states; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

The Gospel of John written sometime before 70A.D. but well into the church age that began at The Day of Pentecost. Was written to be used by believers in the church age.

 

[Strong in Him]

I already quoted Galatians 2:7-9 to indicate that John was sent to the circumcision

That doesn't prove that 1 John was written only to Israel.
Peter was sent as an apostle to the Jews, but that didn't stop him from meeting Cornelius, Acts of the Apostles 10, explaining at the Council of Jerusalem that God was saving Gentiles, Acts of the Apostles 15:7-11, and eating and drinking with them which caused an argument with Paul Galatians 2:12-14.
Paul was sent as an apostle to the Gentiles, but that didn't stop him from preaching in synagogues and debating with the Jews.
Being sent to one group of people does not mean you cannot talk to anyone else.

Again, you are taking a couple of verses and using them to build a doctrine.

John wrote doctrine yes but it is doctrine during the tribulation

So does it apply NOW?

Paul preached Jesus according to the mystery.

No idea what you mean by that.

 

[Guojing]

That doesn't prove that 1 John was written only to Israel.
Peter was sent as an apostle to the Jews, but that didn't stop him from meeting Cornelius, Acts of the Apostles 10, explaining at the Council of Jerusalem that God was saving Gentiles, Acts of the Apostles 15:7-11, and eating and drinking with them which caused an argument with Paul Galatians 2:12-14.
Paul was sent as an apostle to the Gentiles, but that didn't stop him from preaching in synagogues and debating with the Jews.
Being sent to one group of people does not mean you cannot talk to anyone else.

Again, you are taking a couple of verses and using them to build a doctrine.



So does it apply NOW?



No idea what you mean by that.

our salvation is now and is not by works of any kind so, no, John doctrine regarding salvation is not for the body of Christ

 

[Strong in Him]

our salvation is now and is not by works of any kind so, no, John doctrine regarding salvation is not for the body of Christ

Which doesn't make sense, because John preached the cross, just as Paul did. John says that we are, or can become, children of God, just as Paul did.
So you either believe that because Paul said it, or don't believe it because John also said it and your theory is that it's not "for us now."

No wonder you have problems understanding the Gospel.

By the way, John was not preaching good works.

 

[Guojing]

Which doesn't make sense, because John preached the cross, just as Paul did. John says that we are, or can become, children of God, just as Paul did.
So you either believe that because Paul said it, or don't believe it because John also said it and your theory is that it's not "for us now."

No wonder you have problems understanding the Gospel.

By the way, John was not preaching good works.

Since you don't see a distinction between preaching Christ according to prophecy vs according to mystery, you will naturally think that, as long as one preach the cross, he is preaching the same Jesus as Paul, which doesn't follow.

I will just give you one example from 1 John to exemplify, 1 John 3

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are willing to accept what John is teaching there literally, without reading Paul into the passage, this doctrine will put you in bondage.

 

[Strong in Him]

Since you don't see a distinction between preaching Christ according to prophecy vs according to mystery,

I've told you; I don't understand what you mean by that.

you will naturally think that, as long as one preach the cross, he is preaching the same Jesus as Paul, which doesn't follow.

Are you telling me now that there is more than one Jesus??
This gets worse.

I will just give you one example from 1 John to exemplify, 1 John 3

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are willing to accept what John is teaching there literally, without reading Paul into the passage, this doctrine will put you in bondage.

How?
Let's look at this more closely.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

John says here that if we abide in Jesus we will not continue to sin.
Well no one's perfect. John has already said that "if we do sin, we have One who speaks to the Father in our defence", 1 John 2:1, if we confess our sins God will forgive us, 1 John 1:9, and that if we claim to be without sin, we are deceiving ourselves, 1 John 1:10.
So unless he is contradicting himself, he means something else.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Is someone righteous because they do works of righteousness, or do they do works of righteousness because they are righteous?
What does John mean by "doeth righteousness"? Good works?
A person doesn't even have to be a Christian to do good works; atheists and those of other religions so them, found charities and hospitals, raise money and so on.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Yes, Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil - prophesied in the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:15.
Anyone who deliberately and continually sins is of the devil. But no Christian is perfect; if we were, that would mean that we did not need a Saviour, 1 John 2:1-2.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Anyone who is abiding in God will not deliberately sin; they will not wake up thinking "how can I rebel against God and do evil today". They will love God and want to serve him, not rebel and deny him.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If you are willing to accept what John is teaching there literally, without reading Paul into the passage, this doctrine will put you in bondage.

No, it seems that you believe that "doeth righteousness" means that we have to continually try to do good works to be saved. It doesn't, and John does not teach that.
That's why we need to look at the WHOLE of Scripture to understand what is being said, rather than picking out one verse, taking it literally and then deciding that the author is saying something that he's not.

If you believe the Bible - all of it - is the inspired word of God and is inerrant, then it does not contain mistakes or contradict itself.
If any of us find verses that appear to contradict what has been said before, the misunderstanding is with us, not Scripture.

Of course if people don't believe that, then they will pick and choose the parts of the Bible that back up their ideas. That's why there are so many cults around - the leader has formed certain ideas based on a small part of Scripture and ignored the rest of it. And they usually produce their own book "to help people understand the Bible", but which, in fact, only explains their ideas.

And I've already said that not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally.

 

[Guojing]

I've told you; I don't understand what you mean by that.



Are you telling me now that there is more than one Jesus??
This gets worse.



How?
Let's look at this more closely.



John says here that if we abide in Jesus we will not continue to sin.
Well no one's perfect. John has already said that "if we do sin, we have One who speaks to the Father in our defence", 1 John 2:1, if we confess our sins God will forgive us, 1 John 1:9, and that if we claim to be without sin, we are deceiving ourselves, 1 John 1:10.
So unless he is contradicting himself, he means something else.



Is someone righteous because they do works of righteousness, or do they do works of righteousness because they are righteous?
What does John mean by "doeth righteousness"? Good works?
A person doesn't even have to be a Christian to do good works; atheists and those of other religions so them, found charities and hospitals, raise money and so on.



Yes, Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil - prophesied in the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:15.
Anyone who deliberately and continually sins is of the devil. But no Christian is perfect; if we were, that would mean that we did not need a Saviour, 1 John 2:1-2.



Anyone who is abiding in God will not deliberately sin; they will not wake up thinking "how can I rebel against God and do evil today". They will love God and want to serve him, not rebel and deny him.



No, it seems that you believe that "doeth righteousness" means that we have to continually try to do good works to be saved. It doesn't, and John does not teach that.
That's why we need to look at the WHOLE of Scripture to understand what is being said, rather than picking out one verse, taking it literally and then deciding that the author is saying something that he's not.

If you believe the Bible - all of it - is the inspired word of God and is inerrant, then it does not contain mistakes or contradict itself.
If any of us find verses that appear to contradict what has been said before, the misunderstanding is with us, not Scripture.

Of course if people don't believe that, then they will pick and choose the parts of the Bible that back up their ideas. That's why there are so many cults around - the leader has formed certain ideas based on a small part of Scripture and ignored the rest of it. And they usually produce their own book "to help people understand the Bible", but which, in fact, only explains their ideas.

And I've already said that not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally.

See I expected you would try to read Paul into what John is saying. You cannot read him literally, without doing so.

With that method of yours, you can easily pretend all scripture is written as doctrine to you.

 

[Strong in Him]

See I expected you would try to read Paul into what John is saying. You cannot read him literally, without doing so.

Nice try; but I only quoted John's words and did not read Paul into him at all.
Does that mean you have no answer to my posts?

With that method of yours, you can easily pretend all scripture is written as doctrine to you.

You discount most of Scripture anyway, from what I can see.
Apparently the books Hebrews - Revelation are not for us now, but for some future time; though where you get that from is anyone's guess.
Apparently, Christians have "no trouble believing the OT is not for us" and should read these books in the same way.

Sorry, but you really need some teaching about how to understand Scripture; you are throwing out all the important doctrines.

 

[JLB777]

Okay I can see you at a post trib believer

Where in this post do you see me mention post tribulation?



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Do you believe the Resurrection and Rapture happen at His coming?




JLB

 

[Guojing]

Where in this post do you see me mention post tribulation?



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15


Do you believe the Resurrection and Rapture happen at His coming?




JLB

You stated that the rapture will happen at his coming right?

That means you believe that the Body of Christ will also go thru the 7 years of tribulation, because his 2nd coming is at the end of the tribulation.

 

[Behold]

Here is the scriptural proof of my point.

Let’s go to Luke 9:6. The gospel that the 12 are preaching in that verse, you think its about the cross of Christ?

Think about this..

What "gospel" are they preaching?
Jesus is not crucified yet, He is not dead yet, he has not risen from the dead yet.

So, you have have to discern that the "gospel" that is being preached in Luke 9, is not the one that Paul taught, as it can't be the same, as there is no CROSS in Luke 9.

Think on that.