I am not ashamed of the gospel...

[New Testament Christian]

So... it's a command to repent and do we obey all God's commands, all the time? Again repentance can lead to a softened heart. It's not what saves us, however. No work saves us.

I can't fall asleep.

You know how you said baptism cannot save us?

Now you're also saying repentance cannot save us.

You need to hear what Jesus said repentance does for us,

Luke 24:46-47
Then He said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the thrid day.

AND THAT REPENTANCE FOR FORGIVENESS OF SINS SHOULD BE PREACHED IN HIS NAME to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Jesus said the opposite of what you said about repentance. It is for forgiveness of our sins. That means without repentance we cannot be saved.

Jesus believes repentance saves just as Jesus believes water saves.

 

[Guojing]

I can't fall asleep.

You know how you said baptism cannot save us?

Now you're also saying repentance cannot save us.

You need to hear what Jesus said repentance does for us,

Luke 24:46-47
Then He said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the thrid day.

AND THAT REPENTANCE FOR FORGIVENESS OF SINS SHOULD BE PREACHED IN HIS NAME to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Jesus said the opposite of what you said about repentance. It is for forgiveness of our sins. That means without repentance we cannot be saved.

Jesus believes repentance saves just as Jesus believes water saves.

Actually the main issue is that neither of you are rightly dividing the word of truth.

He interpret the scripture you provided, from the perspective of Apostle Paul revelation of the mystery.

While you interpret the scripture he provided, from the perspective of the gospel of the kingdom, which is prophecy.

That is why neither view will converge.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Actually the main issue is that neither of you are rightly dividing the word of truth.

He interpret the scripture you provided, from the perspective of Apostle Paul revelation of the mystery.

While you interpret the scripture he provided, from the perspective of the gospel of the kingdom, which is prophecy.

That is why neither view will converge.

I'll tell you what will never "converge" Guojing's two gospels false doctrine!

Paul taught there is ONE gospel.

Epheasians 4:5
One Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism

The apostle Paul taught there is one gospel meaning one faith.

One faith is one gospel. They are one in the same.

To argue there is more than one gospel is to argue there is:

More than one Lord

More than one baptism

More than one body, Epheasians 4:4

More than one Spirit, Epheasians 4:4

More than one God, Epheasians 4:6

Guojing's false gospels is in opposition to Paul's one gospel. I will believe the Bible.

One faith is the one gospel,

Jude 3
Beloved while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for THE FAITH which was ONCE For all delieved to the saints.

The faith is the one gospel, Epheasians 4:5

 

[Guojing]

I'll tell you what will never "converge" Guojing's two gospels false doctrine!

Paul taught there is ONE gospel.

Epheasians 4:5
One Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism

The apostle Paul taught there is one gospel meaning one faith.

One faith is one gospel. They are one in the same.

To argue there is more than one gospel is to argue there is:

More than one Lord

More than one baptism

More than one body, Epheasians 4:4

More than one Spirit, Epheasians 4:4

More than one God, Epheasians 4:6

Guojing's false gospels is in opposition to Paul's one gospel. I will believe the Bible.

One faith is the one gospel,

Jude 3
Beloved while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for THE FAITH which was ONCE For all delieved to the saints.

The faith is the one gospel, Epheasians 4:5

gospel mean good news.

God has various good news to various people throughout the Bible.

I agree with you there is only ONE gospel that saves us today.

 

[New Testament Christian]

gospel mean good news.

God has various good news to various people throughout the Bible.

I agree with you there is only ONE gospel that saves us today.

Fine good news,

Paul said the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ is ONE, Epheasians 4:5.

Jude says Jesus' good news gospel was delivered ONCE FOR ALL TIME!

Guojing you have two gospels being delivered two different times.

Your doctrine, Paul disagrees with. It is heresey, Epheasians 4:5

 

[renniks]

You ignorantly do believe that we must obey Gods commandment to repent. You don't realize you believe in faith and works is required to be saved.

Nope. We must humble ourselves and believe. That's not works. Works is doing something to merit salvation, like rituals or keeping rules. None of that saves us. If it could have, Jesus would not have needed to die in our place.

 

[renniks]

Are you not aware that if you do not obey all of Gods commandments you are lost?

Then everyone is lost because no one ever kept the whole law but Jesus.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Then everyone is lost because no one ever kept the whole law but Jesus.

Friend ,Jesus kept the whole law of Moses. He then fullfilled the law of Moses(brought it to completion)

And established a new covenant for all the world jew and gentile.

You are absolutely correct. No one can keep the law of Moses perfectly.

Good news is we do not have to keep any of it today. It is not binding on gentiles nor jews. .

The gospel of Jesus Christ can be kept or obeyed in order to be saved.

There are conditions in Jesus' gospel that you and everyone else can accomplish.

Jesus did not give us a gospel that is impossible for us to follow.

Now after one is saved, there are more requirements in Jesus' gospel for the Christian. These are commandments christians must obey.

Yes, sometimes christians trying to live faithfully will fall short of Jesus' commandments but God provides repantance for christians before we are saved and after we are are saved.

The gospel of Christ to get saved does not include every commandment to be obeyed to receive salvation.

For example, every example of what folks did to get saved is in the book of Acts. Acts teaches us how the 1st. century cristians obeyed the gospel.

You will not find one example of someone getting saved in Acts being required by Jesus to become perfectly sinless. That is not a condition in Jesus' gospel unto salvation.

Also real commandments like christians having to help the widows in need. This must be obeyed but this particular commandment is not given to the lost in order to be saved.

So, there are only specific commands given to the lost in Jesus' gospel to be saved.

Not every single commandment in the new testament is required of the lost to get saved in Jesus' gospel.

The book of Acts will teach you what the lost has to do in Jesus' gospel to be saved.

This is called primary obedience.

After one is saved then all the commandments of Jesus' gospel must be obeyed.

And when we fall short, we repent and continue working for God to faithfully do His will.

You are capable of obeying the gospel to be saved.

Now, I may not be on here today. I will ask you a question, and if you respond today. I may not reply back today.

Do you believe you must believe in Jesus Christ ,that He is God, and His death, burial and ressurection to be saved?

Now you made the statement more than once that there are no works of obedience to be saved in Jesus' gospel.

We both agree salvation cannot be earned or merited, Epheasians 2:8-9. So we are in agreement that works of merit cannot save anyone ever!

I will show you that you ignorantly do believe that works are in the gospel in order to be saved when you answer my question.

 

[renniks]

Friend ,Jesus kept the whole law of Moses. He then fullfilled the law of Moses(brought it to completion)

And established a new covenant for all the world jew and gentile.

You are absolutely correct. No one can keep the law of Moses perfectly.

Good news is we do not have to keep any of it today. It is not binding on gentiles nor jews. .

The gospel of Jesus Christ can be kept or obeyed in order to be saved.

There are conditions in Jesus' gospel that you and everyone else can accomplish.

Jesus did not give us a gospel that is impossible for us to follow.

Now after one is saved, there are more requirements in Jesus' gospel for the Christian. These are commandments christians must obey.

Yes, sometimes christians trying to live faithfully will fall short of Jesus' commandments but God provides repantance for christians before we are saved and after we are are saved.

The gospel of Christ to get saved does not include every commandment to be obeyed to receive salvation.

For example, every example of what folks did to get saved is in the book of Acts. Acts teaches us how the 1st. century cristians obeyed the gospel.

You will not find one example of someone getting saved in Acts being required by Jesus to become perfectly sinless. That is not a condition in Jesus' gospel unto salvation.

Also real commandments like christians having to help the widows in need. This must be obeyed but this particular commandment is not given to the lost in order to be saved.

So, there are only specific commands given to the lost in Jesus' gospel to be saved.

Not every single commandment in the new testament is required of the lost to get saved in Jesus' gospel.

The book of Acts will teach you what the lost has to do in Jesus' gospel to be saved.

This is called primary obedience.

After one is saved then all the commandments of Jesus' gospel must be obeyed.

And when we fall short, we repent and continue working for God to faithfully do His will.

You are capable of obeying the gospel to be saved.

Now, I may not be on here today. I will ask you a question, and if you respond today. I may not reply back today.

Do you believe you must believe in Jesus Christ ,that He is God, and His death, burial and ressurection to be saved?

Now you made the statement more than once that there are no works of obedience to be saved in Jesus' gospel.

We both agree salvation cannot be earned or merited, Epheasians 2:8-9. So we are in agreement that works of merit cannot save anyone ever!

I will show you that you ignorantly do believe that works are in the gospel in order to be saved when you answer my question.

You keep contradicting yourself. First you say all the commands must be obeyed for salvation, then you way if we don't obey them we will be forgiven. It can't be both, unless you belive we quite being saved every time we don't obey perfectly and then get saved again when we repent. And that would not be good news, so it's not the gospel.
Yes, of course, we must believe in Jesus to be saved. This is not works. Salvation is by faith through grace alone with no works added.

 

[New Testament Christian]

You keep contradicting yourself. First you say all the commands must be obeyed for salvation, then you way if we don't obey them we will be forgiven. It can't be both, unless you belive we quite being saved every time we don't obey perfectly and then get saved again when we repent. And that would not be good news, so it's not the gospel.
Yes, of course, we must believe in Jesus to be saved. This is not works. Salvation is by faith through grace alone with no works added.

The commands to be saved all can obey,

Belief Romans 10:17

Repent of sins, Acts 17:30; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 3:19 ; Acts 26:20 ; Acts 8:22 ; 2Corinthians 7:10

Confess faith in Christ, Romans 10:9-10 ; Acts 8:37-38

Be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, Acts 22:16 ; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48 ; Acts 16:15 ; Acts 16:33

Are you not capable of believing the gospel?

Repenting of your sins? Publicly confessing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

Being water immersed for the forgiveness of your sins?

Then once God saves you living faithfully as a Christian to death, Revelation 2:10. If you sin while trying your best to serve God, God will forgive you if you are sincere, 1John 1:9.

Nowhere in Jesus' gospel does He require sinless perfection to be saved or to stay saved.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Yes, of course, we must believe in Jesus to be saved. This is not works. Salvation is by faith through grace alone with no works added.

You understand that commandments must be obeyed by us?

When God gives a command we do the command. God does not work the command for us.

God has given you a command to believe in Him.

You must obey this command to believe.

Every time you obey God by doing what He has commanded you, you are working for God.

When God asks you to stop committing sins that give you physical pleasure. When you obey and restrain your physical desires from those sins that self-control requires work on your part.

Every command we obey is a work of obedience.

Danthemailman is a faith alone Baptist. He understands this Biblical fact, that if there is required obedience to be saved and not just belief alone. Then because of obedience we are doing works.

Obeying commands is an ACTION of obedient work.

1John 3:23-24
And this is His COMMANDMENT that we should BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. And love one another as He gave us commandment.

You will deny that faith is a work, because your false gospel will not allow any works to be saved.

Facts of Biblical truth cannot be changed.

To believe in Jesus is to OBEY A COMMAND.

it is a command in the gospel of Christ to believe in Him.

You therefore cannot be saved if you do not obey.

Belief+obedience(works) is the Biblical gospel way of salvation.

You believe in obeying commandments to be saved. You just don't believe all of Jesus' commandments to be saved.

Therefore you do believe in faith and works to be saved.

 

[renniks]

Every time you obey God by doing what He has commanded you, you are working for God.

No, there's a clear distinction in scripture between faith and works. How anyone can confuse them is beyond me. Faith and works being the same thing would force one to remove a lot of verses from his Bible. Actually believing is the same as giving in, not working for something. It's the opposite of a work.

 

[New Testament Christian]

No, there's a clear distinction in scripture between faith and works. How anyone can confuse them is beyond me. Faith and works being the same thing would force one to remove a lot of verses from his Bible. Actually believing is the same as giving in, not working for something. It's the opposite of a work.

Your gospel is full of error.

Repentance is commanded.

We must obey this command.

When we repent we are being obedient to God.

This is a work of obedience just as belief is a command, 1John 3:23-24.

Just as baptism is a command, Acts 10:47-48.

We obey the commands out of love for God and because we desire to be saved. No one ever had faith in Jesus to not get saved. We believe because of love for Jesus and to be saved.

When you get baptized you are obeying Gods command.

This is done out of love for Him and to be saved.

There is no boasting in obeying Gods commandments because belief,repentance, confession, baptism on there own without Grace, Jesus' shed blood. Has no power to save us.

So,we are humble when we obey Gods commandments.

Obedient works is not earning our salvation.

Works is doing something to merit salvation, like rituals or keeping rules.

"Like keeping rules"

Do you keep Gods rule of believing in His Son, 1John 3:23-24?

Commandments are definitely rules! We must live by His commandments!

Now since believing is a command of rules keeping.

You have once again ignorantly believed you must follow the rule of faith in Christ to be saved!

All false gospel are full of illogical errors.

This is the obvious one with the faith alone doctrine.

They teach no works, nothing man does to be saved.

While contradicting their own teaching by require man to do something to be saved!!!

He must BELIEVE!

That is mans part in salvation.

This is the true Biblical gospel.

Grace: Gods part in salvation

Faith: mans part in salvation

You cannot be saved without doing your part!

This is how God chose to create His gospel to save us.

Man must do something to be saved by Christ.

And when we must do something to be saved, that my friend is a work!!!

BUT NOT ALL WORKS ARE MERITORIOUS,!!!

Listen please,

You do works of righteousness after your saved right?

Are those works meritorious?

Of course not! Your not earning your way to heaven.

You need to understand that if Christians can do works of righteousness after they are saved and it not be meritorious.

Then that means there can be works in the gospel to be saved that are not meritorious.

Faith is a work, Jesus said so, John 6:28-29

 

[renniks]

You need to understand that if Christians can do works of righteousness after they are saved and it not be meritorious.

Sure... but that's got nothing to do with getting or staying saved.

 

[renniks]

There is no boasting in obeying Gods commandments because belief,repentance, confession, baptism on there own without Grace, Jesus' shed blood. Has no power to save us.

So,we are humble when we obey Gods commandments.

Obedient works is not earning our salvation.

Im not dissing obedience. We will confess Christ if we are truly saved. We will do some good stuff. But none of that saves us. If we rely on that, how much is enough? Just one more work? Two? How many make us righteous enough? That's works religion and it leads to comparing ourselves with others and depending on our performance for our salvation. It's a sad mess

 

[renniks]

Faith is a work, Jesus said so, John 6:28-29

No they thought it was a work. Jesus corrected them. The Jews were all about works and that's why they missed the Messiah that was right in front of them.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Im not dissing obedience. We will confess Christ if we are truly saved. We will do some good stuff. But none of that saves us.

You cannot get around obedience because obeying Gods commandments requires obedience, 1John 3:23-24.

"We will confess Christ if we are truly saved"
NOT BIBLICAL!!!

Read your Bible more carefully renniks.

Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you WILL BE SAVED.

You said before you confess with your mouth you're already saved! False teaching renniks(I hope it wasn't intentional).

Verse 10
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness and with the MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION.

You have not rightly divided the word of God.
Paul does not believe or teach what you just taught me about confession and the moment of salvation.

Confession as the Ethiopian Eunuch did came before he was saved. His confession that Jesus is the Son of God was a condition that is required by God in order to be saved. Just as belief is a condition of Jesus' gospel.

I feel that you are not being honest with yourself or the scriptures. That really upsets me. I wish you would decide that You are going to study what the scriptures teach and ignore any thing else that your church or other traditions that you have been taught. JUST BELIEVE WHAT IT SAYS, THEN OBEY IT!

"We will do some good stuff but none of that saves us"
That is what your doctrine teaches!!!!

You know I believe you are sincerely trying to help me believe the gospel that you think is the true gospel found in the new testament. I believe right now you are doing good works for my soul and for God. This is a work.

Problem is we can be sincere but like the apostle Paul, we can be sincerely wrong.

So, right now you are involing yourself in obedient good works by teaching the gospel. (Not the true gospel unfortunately)

You are obeying Gods commandment right now,
Matthew 28:19
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen

Now this is the commission for Jesus' disciples.
Jesus tell them the apostles to tell us to do what?

O, I know just some good stuff but it doesn't have any bearing on whether I'll be saved or not. Is that right?

Do you love Jesus?

I bet you claim and believe you do.

Are you aware that to know what love for Jesus really is we must allow Jesus to define love for us?

Let me tell you a sad fact that is Biblical.

If you don't think or are too ignorant to even know that true love for Jesus is to do ALL THAT HE COMMANDS US. You are about to learn that you don't love Jesus if you think you can do just some good stuff!

John 14:23-24
Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, HE WILL KEEP MY WORD: and My Father will love him and we will come to him and make our home with him

He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Fathers who sent Me.

You still think you love Jesus because you do some good stuff?

Jesus says those who truly love Him keep ALL of His word that includes His commands, John 14:15.

You need to know that those that think commandment keeping is not required to be saved does not have Jesus!!!

That's scary! Real scary if you truly believe the Word.

1John 2:3-5
Now by this we know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS

He who says, I know Him and does not keep His commandments, IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

But whosoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM.

You still think commandment keeping has nothing to do with you being saved?

You cannot know God if you do not keep His commandments.

You do not have God in you, if you do not keep all of His commandments.

You are not in God if you do not keep all of His commandments.

What is that saying about your salvation and commandment keeping?

Simple

Dont keep all of Jesus' Fathers commandments = dont love Jesus.

Don't keep all of His commandments = God is not in you.

Don't keep all of His commandments = You are not in God.

Don't keep all of His commandments = You do not have the truth and you are a liar if you say you do!

Since the Bible is crystal clear that those that don't keep all of Jesus Christ gospel commandments dont love Him and He and His Father will not make their home with him.

What chance do you think a person who does not love Jesus( even though they may truly believe they do),

has to get into heaven?

How much chance does this person who God clearly says is a liar and the truth is not in them, and He will not make His home with them,

How much chance do willfull commandment breakers have in Jesus saving them?

You still believe commandment keeping has nothing to do with your salvation?

I'm sure your church teaches obedience to God is irrelevant.

But if you don't wise up, you are going to be shocked on judgment day for practicing lawlessness!

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN.

MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN YOUR NAME, CAST OUT DEMONS IN YOUR NAME AND DONE MANY WONDERS IN YOUR NAME?

And I will declare to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTISE LAWLESSNESS!

Has Jesus taught you anything today about your dependance on keeping His commandments to be saved?

Or are you just going to stick your fingers in your ears and repeat over and over the same false teachings you have been indoctrinated and deceived into?

 

[renniks]

We will confess Christ if we are truly saved"
NOT BIBLICAL!!!

Really? When did you confess Christ? Before you were saved or after? How do you go tell someone before it happens? You are misusing a verse to try and make confession what saves you.

And BTW:
"And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"

And BTW:


"Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified."

And BTW:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

And BTW:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

And BTW:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

 

[renniks]

If you don't think or are too ignorant to even know that true love for Jesus is to do ALL THAT HE COMMANDS US. You are about to learn that you don't love Jesus if you think you can do just some good stuff!

I assume then that you have always through ever moment of your Christian life always lived exactly as God commands? That's nice. The rest of us mess up sometimes. Sometimes we mess up a lot. But fortunately for us;
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."

 

[renniks]

I'm sure your church teaches obedience to God is irrelevant.

Not at all. But it surely doesn't teach that we are saved by our goodness, but only through Jesus. And I don't necessarily get my theology from any one church. Sometimes I even disagree with the pastor. But he's still a man of God, and a sinner too. Kinda like every one is.