• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured I am no fan of violence, but...

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by C.T., Sep 11, 2019 at 10:16 PM.

  1. C.T.

    C.T. New Member

    3
    +0
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    What if someone you love and care about commits a senseless, act of violence against YOU? I read of this account on a social media site. Three days ago, because of a simple, not-thought-out mistake, one enraged family member strong-armed his way into another's room and subjected him to a brutal beating. To date, there has been no apology to the victim, no admission of wrongdoing by the offender, and I am not certain if a single civil word has passed between them. I support the military and police for keeping us safe, but I was raised as a Christian and pacifist, believing violence to always be the last resort. If I were the victim of such bullying by a relative, how could I forgive this!?
    I need guidance on how to advise my friend.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

    +2,241
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    US-Others
    If your story is correct & complete, it really depends on the degree of injury/damage. Below a certain threshold, it would only be a civil case.

    If the injuries/damages were grievous, the victim should report it to the police as a criminal act. That person owes a debt to society, not just the victim. (And may do it again under similar circumstances.)

    Once the batterer is in the court system, the victim can leave their plight to the courts and forgive them, personally.

    It is actually in the batterer's best interest that they should face consequences; that their road to Hell would have speed bumps, rather than be smoothly paved.
     
  3. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

    +260
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Forgive or you won't be forgiven.
    Praying for someone takes a whole lot less energy that holding any hateful grudge.
     
  4. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

    +5,059
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    My advice to him would be:

    1) Get out of that vulnerable situation.
    2) Tell someone else in the family who will listen, get that person on your side. Be wise about doing this, overdo nothing lest it backfire on you. The two of you should confront him.
    3) If that does not result in an apology and anger therapy, make sure everyone else in the family knows what happened, and whose fault it is. Again, be wise about this and don't overdo it, lest it backfire on you. The goal is to isolate the abuser and render him powerless, not the victim who is already powerless and needs support.
    4) Never feel sorry for the abuser again, under any circumstances.

    As for what to do when he storms in, don't let him lay hands on you. Judo or Jujitsu (Brazilian or otherwise) can potentially be very helpful with escaping. Do no more and no less than is necessary to escape.
     
  5. Job3315

    Job3315 Well-Known Member

    543
    +420
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    A friend told me once that if a person comes and hits me on my knee, I forgive him. If that person hits me on my knee again, I forgive Him. But then she said, when it becomes a pattern, its time to assess whats going on because maybe the problem is that I don't have healthy limits established/parameters/a barrier. I decide how people treat me, if I am nor being treated as any human being should (with respect) then I have the power to remove myself from the situation.

    About forgiveness, I learned a long time ago that forgiveness is more for the sake of my heart than for the other person. Forgiveness is a process. Something that helps me is I first take responsibility for my part (if any) then I remember how much Jesus forgave me and how when we go to Heaven I will be sitting at the same table where my friends and people who I had problems with in the past will be sitting next to me, so I make sure I don't have anything against anyone here on earth. I take the person to God in the privacy of prayer with a clean heart, if a person purposely hurt me, then it means he/she is not perfected in love, so I pray they can know and receive God's love and blessing. Then I plan a strategy for my safety; set healthy limits, even if it means getting the police involved. The police is a healthy limit.
     
  6. ajcarey

    ajcarey Member

    232
    +189
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    Being a Christian does not mean being a pacifist. If it did, it would be wrong to support the military and the police. Jesus is not a pacifist, as He used force in cleansing the Temple (where He had jurisdiction) and will slay the wicked with His sword (Rev ch 19) when He returns; He will of course of then have His enemies cast into the everlasting fire of hell (2 Thess 1:8-9, etc).

    This does not mean that we avenge should avenge ourselves of our accord, but it does mean that self-defense from assault, defense of the innocent from aggression, and lawful police and military action is righteous and should be utilized when appropriate (none of these things are personal vengeance and personal resisting of evil). To not utilize these things is actually to enable criminals, terrorists, invaders, etc and to be derelict in one's duties to protect the innocent. Romans 13 shows how Government vengeance and punishment against criminals is good and ordained of God. When people commit violence against us we have a right AND a duty to defend ourselves and call the police when we are put in harm's way due to the violence of another. If we don't do this we are enabling the wicked and emboldening them to commit such things again. This goes beyond ourselves and affects the safety of others- because if they get away with it, they are virtually sure to do it again and embolden others to similar things.

    So if the one you are speaking of was hurt in this attack they should go to the police; and whether they were hurt or not, they should warn the violent one that if there's a next time self-defense will be used and law enforcement will surely be notified.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  7. C.T.

    C.T. New Member

    3
    +0
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    I'm not looking for legal or safety advice, that is up to those involved. But the person who told me about this is asking me for spiritual advice, which is why I'm posting the question here. How can this be forgiven? I want to share what you posted, Phil W, but can you offer some advice on what steps to take?
     
  8. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

    +4,258
    Christian Seeker
    Single
    I don't think I can give any useful advice despite the knowledge of scriptures.

    It's hard to objectively think of these circumstances when you never experienced it yourself. I never did. I hope you find someone who had such experience to give you an answer.

    My personal opinion, I would report it to the police. Forgiving and correction are two different things. You forgive the person but letting them face the consequences will actually do them well.
     
  9. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

    +2,241
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    US-Others
    They are all tied together.
     
  10. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❣️ His little lady ❣️ Supporter

    +3,959
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    This is a grave violation. You may find helpful advice in Christian resources for domestic violence. This is a common question.

    @Endeavourer and @Paidiske can you chime in please? I think your experience would be helpful for the OP. Thank you. :)
     
  11. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

    +12,360
    Australia
    Anglican
    Married
    I think it is premature to be talking about forgiveness while still in a violent and unsafe situation. My advice would be, ensure your safety first, then you are more likely to have the energy and headspace to consider forgiveness.

    I would also add, as a very practical first step, that it might be a good idea to go and see a doctor. Have the injuries assessed and documented, and seek referral to other appropriate supports.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  12. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

    +967
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Great comments, @Paidiske I concur.

    The Lord doesn't just unconditionally forgive, as many Christians misunderstand we are to do. Rather, we should follow the Lord's model of forgiving if there is genuine repentance.

    Luke 17:4
    And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

    Is it not Biblical to leave the offender's repentance out of calls to forgive the trespasser.
     
  13. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

    +260
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Forgive it and forget it.
    What else can one do in order to obey the Lord?

    I'm not saying one shouldn't have alerted those in authority, and if one can't protect themselves there is no need to endure more of the same.
    Leave that "area".
     
  14. Gordon Wright

    Gordon Wright Newbie

    336
    +174
    Christian
    Single
    In the Bible, Jonathan was attacked by his own father. He didn't retaliate, but he did keep his distance.

    In the end, Jonathan tried to honor his father by fighting alongside him against an enemy. I'd like to say God blessed that, but the Bible says it ended badly.

    There are two kinds of forgiveness: foregoing and reconciliation. You can't be reconciled with the unrepentant. If you want to forgive in some sense, settle for foregoing vengeance.
     
  15. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

    +260
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Did the crucifiers of Jesus repent?
    Jesus asked God to forgive them. {Luke 23:34)
     
  16. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

    +2,241
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    US-Others
    Many of them did in Acts of the Apostles 2.

    “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

    Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?

    Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” Acts of the Apostles 2:36-39 NKJV
     
  17. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

    +967
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Are you suggesting we cut Luke 17:4 out of our Bibles?

    The FULL counsel of the Bible reveals that a sinner must come to repentance as part of receiving salvation.
     
  18. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

    +260
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    Good catch!
    Though the folks Peter was speaking to may or may not have been directly involved, as it was the Romans who "did the deed", so at least some of those responsible were told to repent...but that was after they had already been forgiven.
     
  19. Phil W

    Phil W Well-Known Member

    +260
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I take issue with the word "must".
    Salvation and forgiveness are two different topics.
    I have forgiven folks who have yet to repent, and they are forgiven by me...in Jesus' name.
    I have forgiven folks that have died without repenting, and they are forgiven.
    Forgiveness isn't something that is earned, it is granted.
    In the case of this thread, the forgiveness is for the healing of the victim.
    It is written..."For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
    But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt 6:14-15)
    Jesus has never inferred we are to wait for repentance before forgiving.
     
  20. Endeavourer

    Endeavourer Well-Known Member

    +967
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    You are correct that he did not infer repentance proceeds forgiveness. He outright stated it:

    Luke 17:4
    And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
     
Loading...