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Featured I am as righteous as Jesus

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Hammster, Sep 13, 2017.

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  1. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    I'm not as confident as you that the Father would consider us as righteous as Christ Himself.
    We, on earth, are still fighting the sinful nature and working out our salvation by obiedience to His powerful arm in our lives. However, we still at times are rebellious and resist...you may believe OSAS; I do not. The rebellion of some will continue to their end and result in their everlasting demise.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am not a hater of people. I am commanded by God to love the sinner and hate the sin (This love includes even loving my enemies). So you are misapplying my attack against a wrong belief as the same thing as being against the person.

    Anyways, getting back to the 24 elders: Well, your idea of the 24 elders as not being the saints is simply not true. The Scriptures say,

    "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28).

    So we realize that the 12 disciples (Matthias, not Judas) will sit upon at least 12 of these 24 thrones.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  3. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

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    Sitting on thrones without crowns is ludicrus.

    Anyway what do you think of this?

     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    There is no doubt you left out verses 2-3 for a reason. It is because it refutes what you believe.

    Ephesians 2:2-3 says,
    2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

    This is saying that we used to be live like sinners, but we are not that way anymore. For Ephesians 4 says,

    1 "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
    2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
    3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." (Ephesians 4:1-3).

    You cannot sin and still be saved and alos walk worthy of the vocation of which you are called endeavouring to keep unity in the Spirit in the bond of peace.

    In addition, we are told that the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience and that no whoremonger, covetous man, or idolater has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ or God. For we are not to even be partakers with anyone who sins like this.

    3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
    4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
    5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
    7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them." (Ephesians 5:3-7).
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not at all. Jesus says the greatest among you serves.

    But you need to walk in the light as Christ is in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse you. How so? It is what 1 John 1:7 says.

    "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

    Also, we understand from Revelation 3:5 that he that overcomes shall be clothed in white clothing, too. What does Scripture say about this?

    Revelation 19:8 says,
    "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

    Here in this verse we see that the fine linen that is on the saints represents the righteousness of the saints.

    What is one way the Bible describes righteousness?

    "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous" (1 John 3:7).

    So doing righteousness makes one righteous according to John.

    Now, why is it important to know that the "bride" (Revelation 19:7) has on fine linen that represents the righteousness of the saints? (Revelation 19:8). Well, the Parable of the Wedding Banquet tells us that those who do not have on a wedding garment (Which is a picture of the righteousness of the saints) will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    12 "And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
    13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 22:12-13).

    Gnashing of teeth is what wolves do.

    See this image here by clicking on the following spoiler button:

    [​IMG]

    When Stephen was about to be stoned, they gnashed their teeth at him in hatred.

    "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).

    Please take note that if you were to continue on to read past the Parable of the Talents on into Matthew 25:31 about the sheep and goats parable, it talks about how loving the poor equates with one gaining everlasting life, and how not loving the poor means one will be cast into everlasting fire.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  6. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

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    Yes fine linen is being clothed with righteousness. And as the breastplate of His righteousness needs to cover the heart.

    Clothed in the rightousness of Christ as part of the armor.

    Revelation 19:8 says,
    "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I see the breatplate of righteousness as one actually living holy as a part of the imputed righteosness of Christ's sacrifice being applied (See 1 John 1:7). For the pure in heart will see God (Matthew 5:8). It will not be the wicked or dark heart that will see God. Jesus lives inside of our hearts. If He is not king of our hearts and lives through our lives, then it is another master. Jesus says, no man can serve two masters. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. Why? Because what loyal servant disobeys their king?
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I believe I'm in Christ and He's in me. Do you need more verses?
     
  9. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Okay.
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    But you are teaching that obedience to His commands is not necessary as a part of salvation.

    1 John 2:3-4 says,
    3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

    1 John 5:12 says,
    "He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life."
    To have an assurance that you know Christ (See 1 John 2:3 above).

    Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
    Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud, and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
    James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).
     
  11. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I could quote the whole chapter and it wouldn't change anything. Verses two and three say that we used to live like children of wrath, but God saved us anyway. Nothing in there is based on our behavior. As soon as you add a work, grace is no longer grace.
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
    21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. - Galatians 2:20-21

    Your understanding of what Jesus was getting at in Matthew 19 is lacking. He was dealing with the self-righteous. They always think that they are doing enough.
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    When Paul says we are saved by God's grace and not of works in Ephesians 2:8-9 he is talking about Initial Salvation or Utimate Salvation and he is not talking about Sanctification which is the next step in the salvation process. The proof is in Ephesians 5:3-7. Paul says no fornicator, covetous man, or idolater has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ or God. He says we are not to even be partakers with these kinds of people. So to be like them is an oxymoron. Then again, if one wants to sin and still be saved, then I supposed it is easy to just ignore passages like these.
     
  14. AlexDTX

    AlexDTX Well-Known Member Supporter

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    True. And He is the Life.
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I quoted Ephesians 2:5.
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Galatians 5:2 says if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
    Is circumcision a command in the Old Testament or the New Testament?
    Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Jesus said I come not to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.
    So Paul is talking about how we are not under the ceremonial or judicial laws within the Old Covenant.
    Paul is not talking about how we are not under any moral law salvation wise.
    If that was the case, then you can watch porn, kick people down stairs, and do drugs all in the name of Jesus. But Jesus says unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Scribes and Pharisees you will in no wise enter the Kingdom of God. See, the Pharisees thought they were saved just by thinking they were Abraham's descendants. They believed in a sin and still be saved type belief much like many today believe in.

    Galatians 5:19-21 says,
    19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these : fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties,
    21 envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    Well, your not reading Matthew 19 right.
    Let's read one of the concluding thougts to that chapter. For it says,

    "And every one that hath left houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit eternal life." (Matthew 19:29).
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Yes, there is no life or salvation apart from abiding in Christ.

    But how do we have an assurance in knowing Him or not?

    1 John 2:3-4 says,
    3 "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; "

    This is why Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17).
    This is why Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
    This is why Jesus says if you are my friends, you will do what I command (John 15:14).
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
    21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. - Galatians 2:20-21

    I'm not seeing where Paul distinguished "law" from "ceremonial or judicial law". Can you point that out?
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Yes, and you cannot ignore the rest of Ephesians. It is why I quoted to you those other verses.
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Melanin Level - Low Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Let's see what else He said to this guy.

    18 He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
    19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
    20 The young man said to him, "All these I have kept. What do I still lack?"
    21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." - Matthew 19:18-21

    Have you sold all you posses? Because that seems to be a condition, too.
     
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