I am as righteous as Jesus

[Hammster]

Ephesians 2:6 is in context to Ephesians 5:19-21. They are words that are tied together in the letter to the Ephesians.

Okay. I'm not sure why you think that's a rebuttal.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Okay. I'm not sure why you think that's a rebuttal.

Ephesians 5:3-7 and Galatians 5:19-21 both show that a believer cannot sin and also have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God.

Philippians 3:17-19 says there are many who walk who are enemies of the cross of Christ whose god is their belly and who mind Earthly things.

17 "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things" (Philippians 3:17-19).

Romans 8:5-8 says,
5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, ..." (Galatians 5:19-20).

 

[Halbhh]

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

 

[Hammster]

Ephesians 5:3-7 and Galatians 5:19-21 both show that a believer cannot sin and also have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God.

No they don't. Neither passage says that.

 

[GingerBeer]

I believe I'm in Christ and He's in me. Do you need more verses?

No, I know the verses you'd likely use to explain why you think you are in heaven right now but you know as well as I that neither you nor I are in heaven right now because we are on Earth and still living our Earthly lives. In Christ in the eternity in which he dwells all creation is complete yet for us time moves on one day at a time and that is where we are now.

 

[Hammster]

No, I know the verses you'd likely use to explain why you think you are in heaven right now but you know as well as I that neither you nor I am in heaven right now because we are on Earth and still living our Earthly lives. In Christ in the eternity in which he dwells all creation is complete yet for us time moves on one day at a time and that is where we are now.

I see you've decided to twist what I say and ignore the scripture. I guess that's one way to handle it.

 

[GingerBeer]

I see you've decided to twist what I say and ignore the scripture. I guess that's one way to handle it.

If it pleases you to pretend that things are as you wrote then okay.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So only those with great wealth need to sell everything to be saved.

For the rich man this was true. But we know from other Scripture, that believers could own homes. I already gave you a verse for that. Also, in 1 Timothy 6, it says,

"Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life."

How do you know his great wealth wasn't also the reasons Christ told him to keep all of the commandments?

Because God's Word tells us to obey these other commandments for all other believers elsewhere in the New Testament. Just looking at a woman in lust is grounds to being in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Not forgiving others means one will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). Paul says those who do such things like murder, hate, lying, etc. will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) (Ephesians 5:3-7).

 

[Halbhh]

No they don't. Neither passage says that.

Ok, but a clear example is above in post #203. Notice verse 27! That's actual salvation through faith in Christ, that verse!

The huge gift we did not earn.

But then the parable continues....

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No they don't. Neither passage says that.

Not true. Paul says,

"...let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Ephesians 5:3-5).

I have heard sin and still be saved propnents say that inheritance in the Kingdom is either dealing with rewards or it is talking about the recruiting of sheep (brethren). Utter ridiculousness. Revelation 21:8 says a similiar thing but says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. John says ALL liars will be cast into the lake of fire. John does not say that the liars who believed in Jesus will not be hurt by the Lake of Fire.

 

[Shempster]

So you think your righteousness is based in part on what you do?

Not at all. It comes from inside. Its a mindset or an attitude or something. Doing my best to describe it-(from my point of view, remember) When ones heart is clean then good works just naturally follow.
So it's the opposite of salvation by works. Polar opposite. The "works" based religions feel that if you do the good works that makes your heart clean. But it never really does.
The way to be is to have the mind of Christ. That is what makes one's heart clean.

 

[Halbhh]

Ephesians 5:3-7 and Galatians 5:19-21 both show that a believer cannot sin and also have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God.

Philippians 3:17-19 says there are many who walk who are enemies of the cross of Christ whose god is their belly and who mind Earthly things.

17 "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things" (Philippians 3:17-19).

Romans 8:5-8 says,
5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, ..." (Galatians 5:19-20).

When we sin, we must repent, and when we repent truly (and thus in the heart also), then we are forgiven, and return to Him.

Not true. Paul says,

"...let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Ephesians 5:3-5).

I have heard sin and still be saved propnents say that inheritance in the Kingdom is either dealing with rewards or it is talking about the recruiting of sheep (brethren). Utter ridiculousness. Revelation 21:8 says a similiar thing but says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. John says ALL liars will be cast into the lake of fire. John does not say that the liars who believed in Jesus will not be hurt by the Lake of Fire.

Indeed, it reminds us of how when we sin, we are to repent (and from the heart), and James adds "confess your sins to one another", which is a powerful aid to repenting. Real repenting changes us. John writes in 1 John "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." It's not sin for a moment that will condemn any believer, but failure to repent/confess/turn from sins. It seems for me that one of the most powerful aids that brings me to repentance is contemplating Christ, as in the gospels. Remembering Him, I am then pulled to repent.

 

[Hammster]

If it pleases you to pretend that things are as you wrote then okay.

 

[Halbhh]

Not at all. It comes from inside. Its a mindset or an attitude or something. Doing my best to describe it-(from my point of view, remember) When ones heart is clean then good works just naturally follow.
So it's the opposite of salvation by works. Polar opposite. The "works" based religions feel that if you do the good works that makes your heart clean. But it never really does.
The way to be is to have the mind of Christ. That is what makes one's heart clean.

I thought from that wording of yours of John chapter 15, verses 1 through 17. Verse 7 is a connection. To get to where you say, we must listen/hear/remember Christ's words, and soak in them, and finally this means over time learning more and more of His words, and so one is compelled to read/listen to Him. As the branch remains on the vine, it is nourished and grows.

So must we remain on the vine, and not only superficially (not merely church attendance) (as in verse 6), which branches are finally gathered and "thrown into the fire". But instead, we remain on the vine, growing, and then bear fruit, and escape the fire.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain-if indeed it was in vain?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-
6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"? - Galatians 3:1-6

That's it, in a nutshell.

Paul's question to the Galatians is a good one: "Where is your joy?". Legalism is a joy-killer.

 

[ronandcarol]

A saved person says, "I am as righteous as Jesus."
Truth or blasphemy?

It is true, the Bible says that when we are reborn and a follower of Jesus, we are cleansed of sin and put on His righteousness. God no longer sees our sin, He sees His Son.
ronandcarol

 

[Hammster]

Not true. Paul says,

"...let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Ephesians 5:3-5).

I have heard sin and still be saved propnents say that inheritance in the Kingdom is either dealing with rewards or it is talking about the recruiting of sheep (brethren). Utter ridiculousness. Revelation 21:8 says a similiar thing but says they will be cast into the Lake of Fire. John says ALL liars will be cast into the lake of fire. John does not say that the liars who believed in Jesus will not be hurt by the Lake of Fire.

I guess I'll have to post the passage for context.

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Looking at it as a whole, it's obvious that Paul isn't concerned about their justification, but rather their sanctification. His point is that they shouldn't live like those who are perishing. Ephesus was a culture of sexual immorality, though it was thought of as good. So he explained that they shouldn't live like that.

If this was in any way related to justification, he would have mentioned it in chapter 1 or 2.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

When we sin, we must repent, and when we repent truly (and thus in the heart also), then we are forgiven, and return to Him.


Indeed, it reminds us of how when we sin, we are to repent (and from the heart), and James adds "confess your sins to one another", which is a powerful aid to repenting. Real repenting changes us. John writes in 1 John "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." It's not sin for a moment that will condemn any believer, but failure to repent/confess/turn from sins. It seems for me that one of the most powerful aids that brings me to repentance is contemplating Christ, as in the gospels. Remembering Him, I am then pulled to repent.

The moment somebody commits a serious sin, they are abiding in death unless they repent (confess their sin). For the wages of sin is death. Looking at a woman in lust can cause one to be in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Not forgiving others means the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). If we hate our brother we are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15).

Also, we as believers are called to walk uprightly and holy in Him. This is only by the power of Jesus Christ. For 1 John 3:8 says Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. This would be the works of the devil (sin) within a believer's life.

 

[Hammster]

For the rich man this was true. But we know from other Scripture, that believers could own homes. I already gave you a verse for that. Also, in 1 Timothy 6, it says,

"Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life."



Because God's Word tells us to obey these other commandments for all other believers elsewhere in the New Testament. Just looking at a woman in lust is grounds to being in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Not forgiving others means one will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). Paul says those who do such things like murder, hate, lying, etc. will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) (Ephesians 5:3-7).

None of that supports your notion that only the rich ruler needed to sell everything. Either that or Paul opposed Christ.

I think it's better to realize that Jesus was dealing with a very self-righteous person who thought he was good enough to be justified. I've known folks like that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I guess I'll have to post the passage for context.

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them; for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-17‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Looking at it as a whole, it's obvious that Paul isn't concerned about their justification, but rather their sanctification. His point is that they shouldn't live like those who are perishing. Ephesus was a culture of sexual immorality, though it was thought of as good. So he explained that they shouldn't live like that.

If this was in any way related to justification, he would have mentioned it in chapter 1 or 2.

But Sanctification is a part of Salvation. He says they will not inherit the Kingdom of God if they do those evil things. It says right in verse 7 that we are not to be partakers with them who sin like that.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says we are chosen by God for salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth as a part of the gospel.

13 "...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, ..." (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).