I am as righteous as Jesus

[Hammster]

Yes, and you cannot ignore the rest of Ephesians. It is why I quoted to you those other verses.

I didn't ignore them. But before works are even mentioned, we are seated with Christ.

I am, anyway.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. - Galatians 2:20-21

If Christ lives in a person, then Christ will do the good works through them and not evil works.
Remember, a tree is known by it's fruit.
Jesus says if any man does not do what he says he is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.

I'm not seeing where Paul distinguished "law" from "ceremonial or judicial law". Can you point that out?

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." (Colossians 2:14).

Why do you think Paul condemns circumcision in Romans 3:1 and Galatians 5:2?
Yet, Paul says if one teaches contrary to the doctrine of Godliness (i.e. morality), they are proud and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[Halbhh]

That we are made righteous by Him, that we are covered by Him, these still don't make us immune to His commandments.

Just the opposite.

We are commanded. We are to keep His words, and follow them. In other words, being saved means you have to do. He said so.

Not sure?

Read what He said and find out. It's best to read through a full gospel, as if He is speaking something you should be listening to.

Matthew 7:24-27 isn't the only place you will learn you must do -- there are verses that are even more direct -- but it's a invaluable help to remember, as you read. These instructions from Him are not just for some extra kudos, but are key to salvation also.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let's see what else He said to this guy.

18 He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
20 The young man said to him, "All these I have kept. What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." - Matthew 19:18-21

Have you sold all you posses? Because that seems to be a condition, too.

Believers were allowed to own their own homes (See 1 Corinthians 11:22). Jesus was saying this to a rich young ruler who had great wealth. God calls us to in time give up what we have and follow Him 100%. Sometimes believers have familes and they need to provide shelter for their children, or a meeting place for fellow brethren. But if Jesus did not call us to forsake all, then why else would Jesus say, deny yourself, pick up your cross, and come follow me? (Matthew 16:24).

 

[Hammster]

If Christ lives in a person, then Christ will do the good works through them and not evil works.
Remember, a tree is known by it's fruit.
Jesus says if any man does not do what he says he is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.



"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." (Colossians 2:14).

Why do you think Paul condemns circumcision in Romans 3:1 and Galatians 5:2?
Yet, Paul says if one teaches contrary to the doctrine of Godliness (i.e. morality), they are proud and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Paul condemns circumcision because the Judaizers were trying to add works to grace.

Sound familiar?

 

[Hammster]

That we are made righteous by Him, that we are covered by Him, these still don't make us immune to His commandments.

Just the opposite.

We are commanded. We are to keep His words, and follow them. In other words, being saved means you have to do. He said so.

Not sure?

Read what He said and find out. It's best to read through a full gospel, as if He is speaking something you should be listening to.

Matthew 7:24-27 isn't the only place you will learn you must do -- there are verses that are even more direct -- but it's a invaluable help to remember, as you read. These instructions from Him are not just for some extra kudos, but are key to salvation also.

We should be obedient, no argument from me. But it's not our obedience that makes us righteous.

 

[Hammster]

Believers were allowed to own their own homes (See 1 Corinthians 11:22). Jesus was saying this to a rich young ruler who had great wealth. God calls us to in time give up what we have and follow Him 100%. Sometimes believers have familes and they need to provide shelter for their children, or a meeting place for fellow brethren. But if Jesus did not call us to forsake all, then why else would Jesus say, deny yourself, pick up your cross, and come follow me? (Matthew 16:24).

So only those with great wealth need to sell everything to be saved.

How do you know his great wealth wasn't also the reasons Christ told him to keep all of the commandments?

 

[W2L]

We should be obedient, no argument from me. But it's not our obedience that makes us righteous.

I was jumped on in a thread. Apparently Christians sin and its wrong to say they shouldnt.

 

[Hammster]

I was jumped on in a thread. Apparently Christians sin and its wrong to say they shouldnt.

I'm not sure where you came up with that, based on my quote.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

When Paul says we are saved by God's grace and not of works in Ephesians 2:8-9 he is talking about Initial Salvation or Utimate Salvation and he is not talking about Sanctification which is the next step in the salvation process. The proof is in Ephesians 5:3-7. Paul says no fornicator, covetous man, or idolater has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ or God. He says we are not to even be partakers with these kinds of people. So to be like them is an oxymoron. Then again, if one wants to sin and still be saved, then I supposed it is easy to just ignore passages like these.

Are you saying there is a progressive righteousness?

 

[W2L]

I'm not sure where you came up with that, based on my quote.

Im not sure of anything anymore. So now we are both confused it seems.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I didn't ignore them. But before works are even mentioned, we are seated with Christ.

I am, anyway.

I believe you have to ignore those passages in Ephesians in order to make your belief work.

As for being seated with Christ:

Well, Jesus tells the twelve disciples that they will sit upon twelve thrones.

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28).

But we know Judas did not make it in the end.
For Judas later became unsaved because he committed suicide.
For the Scriptures say he fell by transgression.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you saying there is a progressive righteousness?

No. When you repent, and accept Jesus as your Savior believing that He died and was risen on your behalf, you entered into imputed righteousness by faith. When you continue to obey Christ (God), you continue in Christ's imputed righteousness by faith.

1 John 1:7 says that if you WALK in the light of Christ, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you from all sin.

Both Justification and Sanctification play a part in the Imputation of Christ's sacrifice.

 

[Hammster]

I believe you have to ignore those passages in Ephesians in order to make your belief work.

As for being seated with Christ:

Well, Jesus tells the twelve disciples that they will sit upon twelve thrones.

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28).

But we know Judas did not make it in the end.
For Judas later became unsaved because he committed suciide.
For the Scriptures say he fell by transgression.

I don't have to ignore anything. Not even the part that says I'm seated with Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't have to ignore anything. Not even the part that says I'm seated with Him.

You are ignoring Galatians 5:19-21 and Ephesians 5:3-7 in order to make your isolated focused laser beam on Ephesians 2:6 work. Both Galatians 5:19-21 and Ephesians 5:3-7 both essentially say that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Then the passages describes how they are unrighteous.

 

[Hammster]

No. When you repent, and accept Jesus as your Savior believing that He died and was risen on your behalf, you entered into imputed righteousness by faith. When you continue to obey Christ (God), you continue in Christ's imputed righteousness by faith.

1 John 1:7 says that if you WALK in the light of Christ, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you from all sin.

Both Justification and Sanctification play a part in the Imputation of Christ's sacrifice.

Do you realize that you are effectively supporting Open Theism? I'm not sure you knew that, so I thought I'd point it out.

 

[Hammster]

You are ignoring Ephesians 5:19-21 in order to make your isolated focused laser beam on Ephesians 2:5 work. Ephesians 5:19-21 says that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Then the passage describes how they are unrighteous.

Ephesians 2:5 makes us righteous. So there's no ignoring 5:19-21.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you realize that you are effectively supporting Open Theism? I'm not sure you knew that, so I thought I'd point it out.

No. Open Theism claims that God does not know what is going to happen. I don't believe that. I believe God is Omniscient and that He perfectly knows all details of the future.

I believe in Synergism.

Synergism (theology) - Wikipedia

 

[Hammster]

No. Open Theism claims that God does not know what is going to happen.

I believe in Synergism.

"Synergism (theology) - Wikipedia

I'll leave it for another thread.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you realize that you are effectively supporting Open Theism? I'm not sure you knew that, so I thought I'd point it out.

Ephesians 2:6 is in context to Ephesians 5:3-7. They are words that are tied together in the letter to the Ephesians.