"I Am a Traditionalist, Therefore I Am"

[All4Christ]

Yeah, but the problem there is the Holy and Great Phanar would lose its money in order to support the ecclesiological war against the regressive Russian Imperialists - so good luck.

What happens with anything in politics doesn’t change what I believe is right or what I believe the Church has traditionally taught. I try to avoid getting involved in all of that. It doesn’t seem spiritually beneficial to focus on it if at all possible. Unfortunately some don’t have the choice of not seeing the impact of current events.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Just a fair warning. This is from Fordham. They're well known to be funded from multiple outside (secular) sources to be the voice that criticizes traditionalism in the church. They even have studies on LGBT rights and female clergy issues in Orthodoxy (not just Orthodoxy per se, but they lump all Eastern churches, such as the Coptic church). Some examples..

British Council Awards Grant to Orthodox Christian Studies Center for LGBTQ Research

Fellowship Supports Renowned Scholar on Women and the Coptic Church

That said, I'm not exactly a "traditionalist" myself. I don't care to LARP as a Russian or Greek. I want a church that is distinctly American.. and beyond. I'd love to see a revival of the Western rite on a wider scale (and/or an Eastern rite that takes on the flavor of these lands). I'd love to see an official "Church of the Gauls", "Church of Anglia", "Church of the Celts". And I'd love to see icons revive the spirit of the earliest Indian or Chinese churches (not that I want Nestorianism, however).

Knowing this poster’s posting history (and even the profile picture alone should be enough, but I want to make a point specifically about the user’s posting history), I don’t think there’s any naivity in posting this source.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, but the problem there is the Holy and Great Phanar would lose its money in order to support the ecclesiological war against the regressive Russian Imperialists - so good luck.


P.S.
I’ve never heard of a Trisagion Mass - I’ve heard of a Tridentine Mass before though.

no need for this, c'mon now.

 

[TheLostCoin]

What happens with anything in politics doesn’t change what I believe I right or what I believe the Church has traditionally taught.

It really shouldn’t - you’re doing something wrong if it does, but I’m specifically commenting on the idea of one jurisdiction. GOARCH is the most influential of the Eastern Orthodox Jurisdictions, quantity wise, and it’s where the Ecumenical Patriarch gets his money - he certainly doesn’t get it from Istanbul.

 

[TheLostCoin]

no need for this, c'mon now.

I’m sorry, but from the refusal to recognize OCA as autocephalous, to promoting a very wrong understanding of Ecumenism, to the disastrous (especially in terms of execution) “Holy and Great Council”, and to illogically (as they very clearly declared the Kieran Patriarchate as schismatic in the 90s) intervening in Ukraine creating one of the greatest schisms in the history of Christianity, I’m kind of sick of the Ecumenical Patriarch and the problems it has caused.

It is still a canonical Orthodox Church, and I’ve met some very Holy and Inspirational Greek Orthodox Priests and Monks under it, and I respect the Bishops, Priests, and Laypeople dearly - but I’m annoyed with its politics and leadership.
If a Greek Orthodox Church was the one closest to me, I would gladly become a member - but again, the top level leadership is infuriating.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I’m sorry, but from the refusal to recognize OCA as autocephalous, to promoting a very wrong understanding of Ecumenism, to the disastrous (especially in terms of execution) “Holy and Great Council”, and to illogically (as they very clearly declared the Kieran Patriarchate as schismatic in the 90s) intervening in Ukraine creating one of the greatest schisms in the history of Christianity, I’m kind of sick of the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the problems it has caused.

It is still a canonical Orthodox Church, and I’ve met some very Holy and Inspirational Greek Orthodox Priests and Monks under it, and I respect it - but I’m annoyed with its politics and leadership.

I meant for the snark at the end with the Trisagion Mass. after quoting this post I could say the same about the "Kieran" Patriarchate.

plus, going off about the EP derails this thread.

 

[TheLostCoin]

I meant for the snark at the end with the Trisagion Mass. after quoting this post I could say the same about the "Kieran" Patriarchate.

plus, going off about the EP derails this thread.

Okay, it wasn’t needed, you’re right.

In my mind and intention, i had no means of being snarky - it just was funny to me (I mean, it isn’t technically wrong - I mean the Trisagion Hymn is used occasionally, and every Mass the Holy Holy Holy Lord [God] of Sabaoth hymn is used) but I guess the context of passive aggressive ranting really made it seem like that, so again, I apologize

 

[All4Christ]

It really shouldn’t - you’re doing something wrong if it does, but I’m specifically commenting on the idea of one jurisdiction. GOARCH is the most influential of the Eastern Orthodox Jurisdictions, quantity wise, and it’s where the Ecumenical Patriarch gets his money - he certainly doesn’t get it from Istanbul.

Honestly, I’d prefer to focus on Orthodoxy and what it should be, not on the politics of current events.

That said, I’ve always tried to avoid things like that. It distracts me from what matters most. Thankfully with the jurisdiction I’m in, I have the luxury of not experiencing the impact of it on a regular basis.

 

[TheLostCoin]

Honestly, I’d prefer to focus on Orthodoxy and what it should be, not on the politics of current events.

That said, I’ve always tried to avoid things like that. It distracts me from what matters most. Thankfully with the jurisdiction I’m in, I have the luxury of not experiencing the impact of it on a regular basis.

Okay, I’ll be quiet - sorry for the derailing.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Okay, it wasn’t needed, you’re right.

In my mind and intention, i had no means of being snarky - it just was funny to me (I mean, it isn’t technically wrong - I mean the Trisagion Hymn is used occasionally, and every Mass the Holy Holy Holy Lord [God] of Sabaoth hymn is used) but I guess the context of passive aggressive ranting really made it seem like that, so again, I apologize

oh, you wouldn't need to apologize to me. and please do speak about the article posted by the OP.

 

[straykat]

Knowing this poster’s posting history (and even the profile picture alone should be enough, but I want to make a point specifically about the user’s posting history), I don’t think there’s any naivity in posting this source.

Poster? You mean me? In any case, no, no naivete in posting that. Just wanted to give a head's up about Fordham, who also wrote the original OP article. edit: Oh, you mean the OP. Hmm

 

[All4Christ]

Okay, I’ll be quiet - sorry for the derailing.

I wasn’t trying to tell you to not participate I just get frustrated with politics in general, and especially church politics, so I avoid them at all costs.

 

[TheLostCoin]

I wasn’t trying to tell you to not participate it’s just a personal thing for me with politics. I get frustrated with politics in general so I avoid them at all costs.

I am only apologetic insofar as I have derailed the topic and I’m apologetic insofar as I gave you the impression of being snarky

I hold no apologies for anything else I’ve posted on this thread.

 

[All4Christ]

I am only apologetic insofar as I have derailed the topic and I’m apologetic insofar as I gave you the impression of being snarky

I hold no apologies for anything else I’ve posted on this thread.

Thanks - and understood