I am a newbee partial preterist. Discuss.

[thesunisout]

Hi everyone. I am new to preterism. The reason that I have come to this conclusion on eschatology, is because Jesus said twice that he would return before that generation passed. Actually I think it woz three times.
Either we go preterist, or conclude that Jesus was mistaken or wrong. I don't think that Jesus was wrong.
There seems to be evidence that the rapture occurred in 70 AD, from various pagan sources. There were no Christians remaining to record the event, so it is a bit cloudy in history. The faith was lost and all that remained were the various Gnostic Greek sects which developed after the rapture, eventually being replaced by the Catholic Church.
For info.. I am a religious liberal - which means that I am not a fundamentalist. I woz never a dispensationalist.. I had a sort of Amillennial eschatology.

For those that feel that preterism is incorrect, then perhaps we can discuss why here on the forum.

Here is another scripture showing that Jesus knew it would be a long way away before He returned:

Luke 21:24

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The fulfillment isn't when Jerusalem was sacked, its after the Israelites were led away captive. The gentiles held Jerusalem until 1948 so that is something to consider.

 

[BABerean2]

The church began because of Pentecost - but when did that happen? - early on. That might be the arrival of the kingdom, but there is still the possibility that those gathered in the upper room were raptured in 66-70 AD.

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Based on the verses above there is a past, present, and future aspect of the kingdom.

.

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

His,

I find that to be an arrogant statement that you are your own spiritual resource for choosing the biblical canon and you are your own bishop. That sounds awfully like what Frank Sinatra sang, "I did it my way".

Not all churches are dying in the UK. Pentecostals are multiplying. See:

• Pentecostal church looks to white Britons to boost congregations;
• Christianity in U.K. sees 'seismic shift' as Pentecostal and charismatic churches thrive, replacing aging churches;

If you want to kill Christian churches, there is a sure way to do it: Promote theological liberalism in those churches:

• 'Liberal theology will kill the churches in Europe, it is a spiritual suicide'.
• Liberal churches are dying. But conservative churches are thriving;
• "Liberal theology without the gospel has the smell of death" J.I. Packer

We can see a modern day example of the death of the church through theological liberalism when John Shelby Spong, Episcopalian, was bishop of Newark NJ, USA:

The U.S. Episcopal Church's Newark, New Jersey, diocese lost over 40 percent of its members under his nearly two decades of leadership. The Episcopal Church itself – much of it beholden to Spong's liberal theology – has lost over 40 percent of its members over the last 40 years (My Evening with Bishop John Shelby Spong, Mark Tooley 2010).​

See my article, Spong’s deadly Christianity.

Liberal Christianity represents the sword that will lead to the death of Christianity. The late John Stott's evangelical Anglican ministry at All Souls' Church, Langham Place, had a positive impact for upbuilding and training people to take the Gospel around the world. This kind of evangelical Anglicanism is contrary to the one you are exposing.

Oz

I know about Bishop Spong, as I read one of his books, but Spong is a heretic - he does not believe in any of the basic doctrines of Christianity. I am not a heretic - I believe in the creed which makes me a Christian. My opinions on religion are gained from years of study and I can't help that.
I was part of a charismatic type church for a few years. That church declined in the end and then closed. The service was two hours long, mostly taken up by a sermon. There was much 'slaying in the Spirit' also.
I left because of their fundamentalist dispensationalist doctrine and a silly Christian Zionism. I am not anti-Jewish or anti-Israel, but I do not believe that Jews and Israel are above criticism. I think that the return of the Jews to Palestine is fulfillment of prophesy, and closes the age of the Gentiles, in 1948, as Jesus predicted.
I also do not believe that healing carried on after the early years of the church.
I see these mega churches in America and that is not what I want - I want to keep hold of the communion ritual, set prayers and liturgy - not some fat cat in a suit giving a talk on prosperity and so on.
The decline in Christianity in the UK is not due to liberal theology, it is due to a general falling away, increase in wealth, Darwinism and science continuously refuting the bible as regards the Genesis creation.
I believe that the Genesis creation is the infallible word of God, which makes me more Orthodox than most Christians these days.
If a church is teaching very strict fundamentalism, and that clashes with your own learning and study, then never the twain shall meet - it cannot, as what you believe to be the truth is based on study, evidence, and learning from a wide range of scholars.
I think that Christian churches need to learn from 200 years of scholars work - not blinker themselves away from it - that leads to liberalism, but not heresy always.
The Anglican church is grounded on the creed and orthodoxy. There is leeway for people like me who are orthodox, but liberal. American churches can start up by one man alone - what is to ensure that that pastor is adhering to orthodox Christianity? Where is the overarching body of authority? - preserved in England during the reformation after the split with the Roman church. It is just luck that there are not a huge number of new heretical cults popping up all over the place.
And those new Pentecostal churches are derived from Africa where that religion is popular. The Anglican church in Africa is also quite healthy. The decline in Christian faith is across the whole of Europe, including the Catholic countries.
You just need to go onto YouTube to see that America is where Christianity survives still.
But getting back to partial preterism - there is also the part in the gospel when Jesus said to Caiaphas that Caiaphas would see Jesus return with great power. That only works if that actually happened. And it would have happened in 66-70 AD.
I had no idea that there are actual historical records of the rapture of 66-70 AD.

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Based on the verses above there is a past, present, and future aspect of the kingdom.

.

Yes, I agree, the kingdom is past, present and future. I disagree with some preterists who say that communion and baptism are done away with - they seem to have strayed into heresy.
Jesus and John the Baptist were talking about the soon to come end of the age. Even Paul's writings and much of Revelation makes sense when you consider from the preterist viewpoint.
Revelation mentions twice that the return of Christ was soon. Atheists use these verses from the NT to claim that it was a failure because in their view, Jesus did not return.

 

[seventysevens]

"The rapture" is not an idea found in the Bible, but is a novel invention of 20th century dispensational theology. It should be discarded altogether.

Harpazo is the original Greek word in scripture which was translated into Latin as raperium , rapiemur . rapio and then translated into English as rapture , they all mean the same thing referring to the sudden unexpected snatching away, catching away ,caught away suddenly by force and taken to another location

St. Jerome translated the Geek verb harpazo that Paul uses in 1 Thess 4:17 into the latin verb rapiemur and later on that latin verb was translated into the English as “caught up” or “caught away”
The Protestant church translated the latin term St Jerome used into the English word
rapture so hence this happened around the time frame that dispensationalsim began to become more popular and thus when people choose not to do research to find the true origins they fall for anything that someone teaches which leads to apostasy.
I don't concern myself with the origin of dispensational theology because it is not truly relevant -i mean whether you follow that teaching or not is not the core of the harpazo
- Paul wrote :
1 Thess 4:17 ” Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
In verse 18 we are to take comfort with the words he is teaching

Book of Acts 8:34-40
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing

The story of Phillip baptism of the eunuch , read all verses 34-40 and notice that the words “caught away” in verse 39 are in the Greek writing of Acts 8:39 is Harpazo – identically exactly the very same word used in Thessalonians where Paul speaks of the rapture of the whole church.
in a split second as they come up out of the water Phillip is raptured -caught away -harpazo and taken to a city 30 miles away in a mere split second of time. Phillip did not take any means of human transportation , God snatched Phillip and placed him in a city 30 miles away .
Strong’s Concordance
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo)
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.
HELPS Word-studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

Oz - it's also worth considering Billy Graham - huge successful crusades, orthodox preaching, and yet continued decline in Australia and Europe. Why? In my opinion Darwinism.
The fist chapter of Genesis is not Darwinian or heliocentric. It is geocentric, and divine creation. When they dumped Genesis during the reformation, they did huge damage to faith. Copernicus and then Newton - embraced now by the Catholic church.
The letter of James has passages - faith without works is dead. ''What good is it , my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
v21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works... duzant sound much like the justification by faith doctrine.
Luther had a crisis, because he was never sure of salvation in his mind. He developed his ideas based on the writings of Paul,and wanted to remove the letter of James from the canon.
You said I was like Frank Sinatra - being my own bishop. But if we follow a bishop, we might follow bishop Spong for example or someone similar. We cannot rely on the opinions of men - we must study the bible for ourselves and become our own priests.

 

[Netgear]

Nice thread. I do like your posts OP.

 

[A71]

Better to study closer.
1) Caiaphas was quite old when he was high priest. Did he live another 40 years? Not according to the archeologists, who say he died at 60.
2) 'coming' here is erchomia, not parousia. Be careful with that, totally different meaning.
3) 'hereafter', again, proper meaning in Greek is 'at this time', which is contextually the correct translation.

So what Jesus told Caiaphas was that:
At that time, he would see Christ enthroned next to God, sitting in heavenly realms

 

[JLB777]

Matthew 21:33-45
Jesus, Lord of the Vineyard & chief cornerstone, came and crushed those wicked men exactly as He promised He would. Matthew 21:40-43

40 “Therefore, when the lord of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,”?
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?
43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.

We aren't still waiting for Jesus to come and do this JLB.

The Lord Jesus will return and gather His people at the resurrection of the dead in Christ, in which those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them in the clouds, and He will destroy the wicked.


We are all looking forward to this; to that Day we He comes to be admired among those who believe.


3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 1:3-9

• when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,

Jesus will reign in Jerusalem as King over the earth, when He returns to earth.


Heard any news coverage where people are admiring Jesus in Jerusalem.


When that Day comes, all Jews will believe in Jesus and see Him when He comes on the clouds of heaven.

Every eye will see Him.


And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.
Zechariah 12:10-14

• then they will look on Me whom they pierced.

To claim this has taken place and the resurrection is past is Heresy.


Those who promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

I had no idea that there are actual historical records of the rapture of 66-70 AD.

There are no authentic inspired records of the resurrection, which comes before the rapture, and rapture occurring in 66-70 AD, because that event occurs at His coming.


13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

• For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The devil has always had his false teachers who have tried to poison God’s people with the lie of the resurrection being past.

So it’s no surprise that heretics will teach this lie more and more as the days grow short.

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:17-18

• who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past

Christians who spread heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

 

[Douggg]

Get the moderator then - you have really contributed a lot to this discussion about partial preterism. I remember you from years ago - you slammed me with a whole load of abuse because you didn't like what I said. I was going to report you then, but I let it pass.

You are right that I don't like what you say. You are slamming Paul and Revelation.

You can believe what ever you want. And say whatever you want; but here it has to be within the bounds of the forum. This forum is not about proving the bible true. Which is why we don't have atheists for example participating in this forum because it is not the intent.

There are other forums at this site that you could post in with your level of disbelief.

 

[Douggg]

Is that so?

If you throw out Paul and Revelation - where are you in life? Nowhere.

 

[Butch5]

Hi everyone. I am new to preterism. The reason that I have come to this conclusion on eschatology, is because Jesus said twice that he would return before that generation passed. Actually I think it woz three times.
Either we go preterist, or conclude that Jesus was mistaken or wrong. I don't think that Jesus was wrong.
There seems to be evidence that the rapture occurred in 70 AD, from various pagan sources. There were no Christians remaining to record the event, so it is a bit cloudy in history. The faith was lost and all that remained were the various Gnostic Greek sects which developed after the rapture, eventually being replaced by the Catholic Church.
For info.. I am a religious liberal - which means that I am not a fundamentalist. I woz never a dispensationalist.. I had a sort of Amillennial eschatology.

For those that feel that preterism is incorrect, then perhaps we can discuss why here on the forum.

There's also the possibility that you're misunderstanding what Jesus meant by generation. it seems you're understanding the word generation as is common in modern usage. However, the Greek word that Jesus used means to generation, or that which is generated. Jesus commonly used the word to differentiate between groups of people. Jesus said,

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. (Matt. 12:34 KJV)

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (Matt. 12:39 KJV)

Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. (Matt. 12:45 KJV)

8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. (Lk. 16:8 KJV)

Jesus often refers to the wicked as a generation. This generation, the wicked, will not pass until all of the things He spoke of are complete. What is God's goal? Is it not to rid the world of wickedness and sin? That won't happen until the end. Thus the wicked, that generation ,will not pass until all of the things Jesus spoke of are complete.

If your only reason for accepting Preterism is Jesus' statements about "this generation" then there is no need to. What I've described above is easily seen in Scripture and shows that one doesn't need to hold to the typical modern understanding of the word generation.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes, I agree, the kingdom is past, present and future. I disagree with some preterists who say that communion and baptism are done away with - they seem to have strayed into heresy.
Jesus and John the Baptist were talking about the soon to come end of the age. Even Paul's writings and much of Revelation makes sense when you consider from the preterist viewpoint.
Revelation mentions twice that the return of Christ was soon. Atheists use these verses from the NT to claim that it was a failure because in their view, Jesus did not return.

Jesus was a partial-preterist in the Olivet Discourse.

The dividing line between the events of 70 AD and the future Second Coming of Christ is found at the end of Luke 21:24. This is confirmed by Luke 19:41-44.
Christ will return when the times of the Gentiles comes to a conclusion.
Paul also makes reference to this time in Romans chapter 11.

I am praying for you.

.

 

[A71]

If Jesus was a Preterist, then I am a Catholic.

Preterism is a really disgusting doctrine which claims that Jesus returned and took his church in AD 70. It is abhorrent, wholly misleading, totally without scriptural support, (notice that this poster does not use scripture), flies in the face of reality, and prophecy, and was furthermore denounced by Paul.

Jesus was never ever a Preterist.

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

Jesus was a partial-preterist in the Olivet Discourse.

The dividing line between the events of 70 AD and the future Second Coming of Christ is found at the end of Luke 21:24. This is confirmed by Luke 19:41-44.
Christ will return when the times of the Gentiles comes to a conclusion.
Paul also makes reference to this time in Romans chapter 11.

I am praying for you.

.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The time of the Gentiles is already over - 1948 and 1967.

43 For the days shall come upon thee, when thine enemies shall cast up a bank about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 and shall dash thee to the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

This is about 70 AD. Jesus is talking about two things; the Roman siege of 67-70 AD and 2000 years later.
There are still some things to be fulfilled, such as the Psalm 83 prophesy, but there isn't much time remaining until the messianic age.

 

[parousia70]

The Lord Jesus will return and gather His people at the resurrection of the dead in Christ, in which those who are alive and remain will be caught up with them in the clouds, and He will destroy the wicked.


We are all looking forward to this; to that Day we He comes to be admired among those who believe.


3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 1:3-9

• when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,

Jesus will reign in Jerusalem as King over the earth, when He returns to earth.


Heard any news coverage where people are admiring Jesus in Jerusalem.


When that Day comes, all Jews will believe in Jesus and see Him when He comes on the clouds of heaven.

Every eye will see Him.


And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves.
Zechariah 12:10-14

• then they will look on Me whom they pierced.

To claim this has taken place and the resurrection is past is Heresy.


Those who promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

So you don't disagree that Matthew 21:40-45 was fulfilled in 70 AD.
Excellent.

 

[parousia70]

If Jesus was a Preterist, then I am a Catholic.

Well then, Peace be with you!

The preterist view obviously was given to us by Jesus and the apostles that all agree that the there would be a Judgement coming of Christ that would occur within their lifetimes in their generation (Matt 24:33-34; Matt 10:22-23; John 21:21-22; Matt 16:27-28; Heb 10:37; Rev; 1:1, 1:3; 3:1-3; Rev 2:20-25; Matt 21:40-45).

They boldly proclaimed that they were in the last days generation (Heb 1:1-2; Acts 2:15-17; James 5:3; 1 Peter 1:20; 1 Cor 10:11).

Acts 2:15-17
these are not drunken, as ye suppose; seeing it is but the third hour of the day -- but THIS IS THAT which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel: And it shall be IN THE LAST DAYS, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh

So we see that the last days, according to Peter, were to be the days when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon His people (1st century).

Christ and his apostles could not err on this most important teaching. If they were in error then Christ becomes a false prophet and our faith is in vain.

Next, one also can see that the Church has interpreted Matthew 24 as fulfilled or mostly fulfilled all down through the Church's history even to this day.

So, the preterist view ain't no "mumbo jumbo." In fact, interpreting Matthew 24 as all in the future (as our friend JLB does) is completely foreign to the bible and to Church history until the 1800s. The commentaries by the reformers on Matthew 24 placed most or all of Matt 24 in the past.

The fact is, It cannot be for us today. Both the grammar and the context of the passage tell us that Jesus was speaking to his apostles about things THEY were to experience. The "YOU" in the following verses are the apostes: Matt 24:4, 6, 9, 15, 20, 23, 25, 26, 33, 34.

Jesus, speaking to his apostles, promised:

Matthew 24:33-34
So, YOU too [the apostles], when YOU [the apostles] see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say TO YOU [the apostles] THIS generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

There is no textual way that Matthew 24 speaks to anyone other than Christ's contemporaries to whom Jesus was actually speaking. The grammar demands and ensures a 1st century fulfillment in their generation.

The "YOU" being spoken to in Matthew 24 never changes.

That bears repeating:

The "YOU" being spoken to in Matthew 24 never changes.

Not once, EVER.

The "YOU" is the apostles to whom Jesus is speaking in Matthew 24:2,4,6 9,15,20,23,25,26,33,34

In Matthew 24:33 the "YOU" is still the apostles and the "YOU" in Matthew 24:34 is still the apostles.

Matthew 24:33-34
So, YOU too [the apostles], when YOU [the apostles] see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say TO YOU [the apostles] this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

If you are not convinced that we should honor the literal and grammatical interpretation of the passage, I would point out to you that we know beyond any shadow of a doubt that Matthew 24:9-13 is the apostles -- for the passage is the same exact statement as Jesus gave the apostles in Matt 10:16-23 (cf. also to Matt 23:34-36 which was for THEIR GENERATION (23:36) ).

It is easy to prove that the "YOU" in Matthew 24:15-20 is ALSO the apostles because Luke's account of the same exodus out of Jerusalem and Judaea in Luke 21:20-23 is assigned by every scholar to the period of AD 66-70. They are exactly parallel passages.

Finally, Jesus emphasizes the "YOU" being the apostles in Matt 24:25. This "YOU" cannot be anyone other than the ones to whom he is speaking. AND, Jesus made this Matthew 24:25 elsewhere to the apostles about things THEY would experience (compare to John 14:29; John 13:19; and John 16:4).

We either believe Jesus and take Him at his word or we make him out to be a false prophet. Jesus said he was coming back in their generation and his own apostles to whom he was speaking were promised that THEY would experience those endtimes events (Matt 24:33).
It is not an option to just dismiss Jesus.

Nor can we ignore the many other times Jesus gave promise of a 1st century return (John 21:21-22; Matthew 10:22-23; Matthew 16:27-28; Matthew 21:40-45, Revelation 3:3). We cannot just ignore that every one of the apostles believed and taught that the return was going to happen very soon in their lifetimes (Heb 10:37).

When we really look closely at scripture we see that it comes down to this:

If Jesus returned within His generation, then the Futurist view is a lie.
If Jesus didn’t return within His generation, then Christianity is a lie.

 

[JLB777]

So you don't disagree that Matthew 21:40-45 was fulfilled in 70 AD.
Excellent.

It is excellent.

Matthew 21 or 24 or Luke 21 have zero to do with 70 AD.

ZERO!

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

If Jesus returned within His generation, then the Futurist view is a lie.
If Jesus didnt return within His generation, then Christianity is a lie.

parousia70 I agree with all of that in your post. most of eschatology is about 66-70 AD. The only thing remaining in the future was the long period of the age of the Gentiles and the return of the Jews to Palestine.
I think there might be some significance to the return of the Jews, some sort of destiny - there is currently a revival/beginning of messianic belief in Israel. It's not quite dispensationalism, where many believe that Jesus returns to rule the world from Jerusalem, along with the saints from heaven for 1000 years - but perhaps there is the possibility of a messianic kingdom, I am not sure - mainly derived from the first chapters of Isaiah.