I am a newbee partial preterist. Discuss.

[BABerean2]

I agree a Third temple will be 100% a counterfeit, Christ is the new temple, he's the holy of holies.

However you cant disregard a third temple being built, and animal sacrifice being instituted again, as seen in Isaiah 66:1-4 as God addresses a temple being made and sacrifice being offered, that God sees as an abomination?

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
66 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

You could be correct that a third temple will be built.
I am well aware of the plans to build it.

However, the scripture text above could also refer to the time period between Calvary and 70 AD.

.

 

[mkgal1]

The New Covenant went into effect at Calvary and the temple veil was ripped in half by God on that day, instead of 70 AD.

Absolutely.

There was not some intermediate time period between Calvary and 70 AD when both covenants were in effect at the same time.

This I'm still not quite understanding. I'm thinking this was in phases. I believe the Old Covenant became obsolete at Calvary.....but I'm thinking that time period between Calvary and 70 AD had some meaning (of course I could be wrong).

"Think not that I am come to destroy the Law and the Prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Verily I say unto you, until heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law until all be fulfilled". [Matthew 5:17-18]​

From what I do understand.......a time of God waiting (if I recall....fulfilling Levitical priesthood law) ......waiting for God's judgement? And waiting for the fulfillment of this, I believe (the part I bolded):


------->And He came to restore Israel, not as a State ruling over all the nations by the power of the sword, but as the kernel of the Universal Church ruling by the power of the Spirit. His Kingdom was not of this world; it was the inner Kingdom of Grace.


The question was: would the Jews accept Him as the Messiah, as the true King of Israel, together with the spiritual, not the nationalist image of Messiahship? On this would depend the salvation of both the people and their State… Tragically, in their great majority the Jews failed this test. They both crucified their True King and God, and said to Pilate: "We have no other king but Caesar" (John 19.15). At that moment they became no different spiritually from the other pagan peoples; for, like the pagans, they had come to recognize a mere man, the Roman emperor, as higher than God Himself. As St. John Chrysostom writes: “Here they declined the Kingdom of Christ and called to themselves that of Caesar.”[2]


What made this apostasy worse was the fact that they were not compelled to it by any despotic decree. Pilate not only did not demand this recognition of Caesar from them, but had said of Christ – “Behold your king” (John 19.14), and had then ordered the sign, “Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews”, to be nailed above the cross. The Jews had in effect carried out both a democratic revolution against their True King, and, at the same time, a despotic obeisance to a false god-king.


Thus did the City of God on earth become the City of Man - and the stronghold of Satan: “How has the faithful city become a harlot! It was full of justice, righteousness lodged in it, but now murderers” (Isaiah1.21). Thus did the original sin committed under Saul, when the people of God sought a king who would rule them "like all the nations", reap its final wages in their submission to "the god of this world”.


But the positive result was that the Kingdom, with all its ineffable and inestimable benefits, were passed to other peoples. As the Lord Himself had prophesied: “The Kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits thereof” (Matthew 21.43). Or as St. Paul put it: “What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect [from the Gentiles] have obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Romans 11.7). Thus all the other peoples of the world were now given the opportunity of joining God’s Kingdom in the Church, “the Israel of God” (Galatians 6.16).~CHRIST, ISRAEL AND THE FALL OF JERUSALEM

 

[mkgal1]

This article explains what I was recalling. I think the time period between Calvary and 70 AD represents a time of tension of the two kingdoms clashing (Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Man). His ways typically (the way I see) aren't swift and immediate (often the way we imagine). I believe this demonstrates God's mercy and omnipotence to fulfill the law this way. Sorry this is so long....I didn't even quote most of the article. I couldn't think of how to edit more than this--so much is applicable and necessary to begin to understand.

From Jerusalem's Time of Visitation:

---->Most Christians remember Jesus’ cleansing of the temple as that one instance in which He was visibly angry, but it was OK because He was righteously angry at the people using His religion in order to make a profit. These same Christians then leave church on Sunday and go buy Jesus junk in their local Bible bookstore on Monday.

Nevertheless, while there is some truth to this view of the incident, there is a much, much deeper meaning we need to see. It relates specifically to the then soon coming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.​

We discussed the idea of “visitation” earlier in reference to the phrase “the present time” (Luke 12:56) as well as the phrase “the time of your visitation” (19:44). In both cases we saw how both the context and the time reference itself require that the warnings have to pertain to the generation of people to whom Jesus’ spoke then. Here I would like to expand on the theological concept of “visitation” and how it relates to what Jesus did immediately after He used the phrase. This in turn will relate directly to the leveling of the temple that Jesus had just predicted as He wept over Jerusalem: “your enemies will . . . tear you down to the ground . . . And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation” (19:43–44).​

The text proceeds:

And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold, saying to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a den of robbers” (19:45–46).


Inspection of a Corruption in a House

Indeed, there were two separate cleansings of the Temple, and there is a better explanation for them. What lies behind these separate instances is Jesus fulfilling the role of the High Priest visiting and inspecting the touch of affliction/corruption in the house. This is described in Leviticus 14:33–53. It accounts for the multiple visitations and the repeated act of removing the corruption, then finally pronouncing the house (temple) unclean and decreeing the total destruction of the house. It also fits in with Jesus’ mission against Jerusalem. Now for considerations of space, I will not reproduce the whole long section of Leviticus here, but it is important that you take up your Bible and read it at this point. What follows are the highlights of the priestly duties throughout that passage, and how they pertain to Jesus’ ministry.


New House and New Stones

The house cleansings are separated from the first inspection by seven days, according to the Levitical law. As I mentioned, the seven-day period does appear in John. In order to see it, however, we need to consider the whole picture of what I have discussed so far: Jesus as the true Temple, and His cleansings of the Old Covenant temple as a visitation of judgment on an idolatrous and complacent house. This is the story of Jesus in John’s Gospel.


This is exactly what God told John the Baptist to watch for in Jesus: “He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain” (John 1:33). It is clear from this image alone that Jesus, the Son of God, was in fact God’s New House, New place of dwelling. Jesus was the New Temple. This would mean, of course, that the old temple in Jerusalem was already obsolete. From the day of the revealing of the true temple to Israel, all those old temple rituals and all the traditions and idolatrous practices that had grown up around them, were nothing but corruption in God’s house of Israel. The new house was already established and indwelt by the spirit. The by definition “closed” the other house for covenant business. The closing of the house, also, was part of the seven-day wait period (Lev. 14:38).~Jerusalem's Time of Visitation (Luke 19:45-46) - The American Vision​

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

Can I ask here, generally.. when does preterism become heretical? If preterists believe that Jesus returned in 66-70 AD, did away with the law - and Jesus said that the kingdom is not of this earth - what prophesies need to be fulfilled? - resurrection is in heaven, mostly after the passing of the saved - the unsaved do not partake of the resurrection, but the earth is destroyed by fire - the melting of elements.
The parable of the wheat and the tares can be what happens as a judgement after death - heaven is continuous and not in some future resurrection as thought by the SDA - they say that Jesus did not refute the resurrection in the future, but he did not agree with it either - he said 'I am the resurrection'.
If the dispensationalists are in error, in thinking that there will be a new dispensation, presumably of law, after the dispensation of grace, and there needs to be a rapture, so as to herald in the new dispensation, then many here will say that that must be error, as I believe, as Jesus came to fulfill the law, and the law was done away with.
Am I in error in thinking that the resurrection is in heaven after the passing of the individual? And I do not believe in 'soul sleep' - that you wake up in some future earth kingdom, but if you are saved, you are in heaven forever - you obtain the resurrection body and do not have to wait to be transported to earth.
I think the most likely scenario, is that the earth is eventually destroyed, and that is according to Peter, and those saints remaining on the earth are translated to heaven - the parable of the wheat and the tares again - this did not happen in 66-70 AD - the tares were not removed from the kingdom, or all that causes offence - that seems to be talking about the final end of things altogether.
A new earth perhaps? A new heaven?

 

[claninja]

There was not some intermediate time period between Calvary and 70 AD when both covenants were in effect at the same time.

This is an interesting point, one that probably deserves a deeper look. But we do notice the believing Jews continuing to keep the Law after the cross.

take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law. Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.
Acts 21:24,26 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:24, Acts 21:26 - English Standard Version

From this it appears the brothers in Jerusalem continued to follow the law of Moses, and commanded Paul to do the same so the unbelieving Jews would not harm him.

They even gave gentiles 4 commands from the law of Moses to follow:

But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Acts 21:25 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:25 - English Standard Version

The writer of Hebrews also believed that the old covenant was still around, as it would soon vanish, not that it had already vanished.

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 - Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:13 - English Standard Version

And yet we see through the epistles, we have died to the law.

So we see this conflict of the law and freedom in Christ. But God made it absolutely clear, after the destruction of the temple, that the old covenant had ended

 

[mkgal1]

Can I ask here, generally.. when does preterism become heretical?

From what I am understanding.....one way is when beliefs are involved such as the resurrection is only a spiritual one (like what I think you'd described earlier.....a "going up" sort of rapture). Because if our resurrection is only spiritual and our resurrection is to be like Jesus’, then Jesus must have a spiritual resurrection, which denies the bodily resurrection.

Also...
What remains to be fulfilled?

The Gospel will spread like the mustard seed or the yeast in the dough as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 13....and ultimately:

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away~Revalation 21:4​

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

From what I am understanding.....one way is when beliefs are involved such as the resurrection is only a spiritual one (like what I think you'd described earlier.....a "going up" sort of rapture). Because if our resurrection is only spiritual and our resurrection is to be like Jesus’, then Jesus must have a spiritual resurrection, which denies the bodily resurrection.

Also...
What remains to be fulfilled?

The Gospel will spread like the mustard seed or the yeast in the dough as Jesus prophesied in Matthew 13....and ultimately:

He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away~Revalation 21:4​

Jesus had a bodily resurrection, but also ascended to heaven. So there can be a physical resurrection as well - not just spiritual, in heaven. Isaiah says that God will swallow up death, so there will be a final end of the order that is now on the earth - no more procreation or death.
I think that I am still within the confines of orthodoxy, as far as eschatology goes.

 

[mkgal1]

Jesus had a bodily resurrection, but also ascended to heaven. So there can be a physical resurrection as well - not just spiritual, in heaven. Isaiah says that God will swallow up death, so there will be a final end of the order that is now on the earth - no more procreation or death.
I think that I am still within the confines of orthodoxy, as far as eschatology goes.

I believe that, in order for our resurrection to be like Christ's, it *has to be* physical. Keep seeking.....I'm sure you'll find some amazing discoveries A lot of this is almost impossible to put into words to another person (we certainly can't be the one doing any convincing!)....it has to be found.

 

[BABerean2]

This is an interesting point, one that probably deserves a deeper look. But we do notice the believing Jews continuing to keep the Law after the cross.

take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law. Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.
Acts 21:24,26 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:24, Acts 21:26 - English Standard Version

From this it appears the brothers in Jerusalem continued to follow the law of Moses, and commanded Paul to do the same so the unbelieving Jews would not harm him.

They even gave gentiles 4 commands from the law of Moses to follow:

But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Acts 21:25 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 21:25 - English Standard Version

The writer of Hebrews also believed that the old covenant was still around, as it would soon vanish, not that it had already vanished.

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 - Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8:13 - English Standard Version

And yet we see through the epistles, we have died to the law.

So we see this conflict of the law and freedom in Christ. But God made it absolutely clear, after the destruction of the temple, that the old covenant had ended

I would have to disagree, because nobody but Christ ever kept the Law of Moses.

King David was an adulterer and a murderer who was saved by faith in the coming Messiah, instead of the works of the Law of Moses.

We also see the battle between the Judaisers and the Apostles already occurring in Acts chapter 15.
Acts 15:24 makes it clear that the Old Covenant was finished, as well as Galatians 4:24-31.

However, we do know that Paul had Timothy circumcised? Why?
It had to be in order to satisfy the Jews that they were preaching to, as well as the Judaisers who still could not let go of the Old Covenant.
Paul said all things were lawful to him. However, he attempted not to offend those in the synagogues he was preaching to.


The comment about the law passing away in Hebrews 8:13 has to be viewed in context of the beginning of the verse and the rest of Hebrews 8:6-13.
The New Covenant had already made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

The Pharisees and others who rejected Christ but continued animal sacrifices between Calvary and 70 AD could not have eternal life based on what Christ told Nicodemus.
Nobody will enter the kingdom without being "born again" of the Spirit.

Christ did not tell Nicodemus that he could be saved by the Law of Moses, and or Christ.

Paul did not give the Galatian believers a choice to be saved by the works of the Law of Moses or to be saved by the New Covenant.
Paul made it crystal clear that they could not be saved by the Law of Moses.


You are trying to make your style of Preterism work.
You have gone too far in that direction, and into the ditch.

Christ did not return in 70 AD.
He remained seated at the Father's right hand while the Romans destroyed the city, in the same way that God allowed the Babylonians to do it earlier.

Please, come back onto the road of the New Covenant...

Not of Works:

.........................................................

Paul Against the Law Men:

.

 

[mkgal1]

Christ did not return in 70 AD.
He remained seated at the Father's right hand while the Romans destroyed the city, in the same way that God allowed the Babylonians to do it earlier.

It's not a physical "coming"......but, I believe, a mark of another phase of His Kingdom. These verses are what use the phrase or concept of, "the Son of Man coming"--referring to what happened in 70 AD:

I promise you some of those standing here will not die before they see the Son of Man coming with his kingdom. ~Matthew 16:28

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.~Matthew 24:34


"You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.~Matthew 26:64


"At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.~Mark 13:26

 

[mkgal1]

Quoting William Manson, “Eschatology in the New Testament, from the publication linked:

-------> The Resurrection of Jesus is not simply a sign which God has granted in favour of His son, but is the inauguration, the entrance into history, of the times of the End. Christians, therefore, have entered through the Christ into the new age. . . . What had been predicted in Holy Scripture as to happen to Israel or to man in the Eschaton, has happened to and in Jesus. The foundation-stone of the New Creation has come into position. 3~https://www.wtsbooks.com/common/pdf_links/9780801049606.pdf

 

[mkgal1]

Another significance of 70 AD that I see is the taking away of the priesthood from the Levites and how it was given back to everyone.


Quoting---->We are all priests

It’s subtle — almost invisible in the English — but in Gen 1 and 2, God ordains Adam and Eve as priests in his cosmic temple.
(Gen. 2:15 ESV) 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

The words translated “work” and “keep” are used in the Law of Moses to describe the work of the priests.
To conclude, then, (1) since there are a couple of contexts in which šmr is used for Levitical service along with (e.g., Num. 3:8–9), (2) since the contextual use of šmr here favors sacred service, (3) since [it] is as likely to refer to sacred service as to agricultural tasks, and (4) since there are other indications that the garden is being portrayed as sacred space, it is likely that the tasks given to Adam are of a priestly nature—that is, caring for sacred space. In ancient thinking, caring for sacred space was a way of upholding creation. By preserving order, chaos was held at bay. …
If the priestly vocabulary in 2:15 indicates the same kind of thinking here, the point of caring for sacred space should be seen as much more than landscaping or even priestly duties. Maintaining order made one a participant with God in the ongoing task of sustaining the equilibrium God had established in the cosmos. … This combines the subduing and ruling of chapter 1 with the ‘bd and šmr of this chapter.
Walton, John H.. Genesis (The NIV Application Commentary) (Kindle Locations 3803-3807; 3816-3822). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
********************************
Considering this along with 1 Peter
(1 Pet. 2:4-5 ESV) 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

(1 Peter 2:9) But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

....there seems to be a great reversal when the Temple was destroyed.​

 

[mkgal1]

I just gathering ideas right now.....sorry about the length of all of this (I'm contemplating).

We have this:

Hebrews 8:1-2

The High Priest of a New Covenant

1Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.

If the Jewish Levitical priests were still present in the Temple (from the time of Jesus' crucifixion until 70 AD)....then could it technically be said that God had "miserably destroyed those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen" as Jesus had said in His parable?

The end of the Jewish age: the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD​

 

[BABerean2]

It's not a physical "coming"......but, I believe, a mark of another phase of His Kingdom. These verses are what use the phrase or concept of, "the Son of Man coming"--referring to what happened in 70 AD:

I promise you some of those standing here will not die before they see the Son of Man coming with his kingdom. ~Matthew 16:28

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.~Matthew 24:34


"You have said it yourself," Jesus answered. "But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.~Matthew 26:64


"At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.~Mark 13:26

Did those things come to pass in 70 AD, or did they occur about 40 years before with His death, resurrection, ascension, and sending the Spirit to empower believers?

He was seen by about 500 people, after His resurrection from the dead.

Jesus told Nicodemus that a man could not inherit the kingdom without being "born again" of the Spirit. That began to a great extent on the Day of Pentecost, instead of 40 years later.

We must also realize that some aspects of the kingdom came to pass before Calvary.

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

He did cast out devils during His earthly ministry.

.

 

[BABerean2]

Another significance of 70 AD that I see is the taking away of the priesthood from the Levites and how it was given back to everyone.


Quoting---->We are all priests

It’s subtle — almost invisible in the English — but in Gen 1 and 2, God ordains Adam and Eve as priests in his cosmic temple.
(Gen. 2:15 ESV) 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

The words translated “work” and “keep” are used in the Law of Moses to describe the work of the priests.
To conclude, then, (1) since there are a couple of contexts in which šmr is used for Levitical service along with (e.g., Num. 3:8–9), (2) since the contextual use of šmr here favors sacred service, (3) since [it] is as likely to refer to sacred service as to agricultural tasks, and (4) since there are other indications that the garden is being portrayed as sacred space, it is likely that the tasks given to Adam are of a priestly nature—that is, caring for sacred space. In ancient thinking, caring for sacred space was a way of upholding creation. By preserving order, chaos was held at bay. …
If the priestly vocabulary in 2:15 indicates the same kind of thinking here, the point of caring for sacred space should be seen as much more than landscaping or even priestly duties. Maintaining order made one a participant with God in the ongoing task of sustaining the equilibrium God had established in the cosmos. … This combines the subduing and ruling of chapter 1 with the ‘bd and šmr of this chapter.
Walton, John H.. Genesis (The NIV Application Commentary) (Kindle Locations 3803-3807; 3816-3822). Zondervan. Kindle Edition.
********************************
Considering this along with 1 Peter
(1 Pet. 2:4-5 ESV) 4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

(1 Peter 2:9) But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

....there seems to be a great reversal when the Temple was destroyed.​

Was 1 Peter 2:4-10 written before 70 AD?

.

 

[JLB777]

It would be a counterfeit of the work of Christ, who is now the true temple of God.

It is a deception, now accepted by many modern Christians.

.

Yes. This will be the temple that the false
christ will go to, and proclaim himself as God.

 

[JLB777]

verily I say to you -- This generation may not pass away till all may have come to pass;
Luke 21:32 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:32 - Young's Literal Translation

Yes. The generation that see’s the signs that were listed by Christ, will see Him coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 

[JLB777]

Correct, those worthy to rise from the dead after the age the disciples were living in, would not marry or die after they were resurrected.

At the resurrection of the dead in Christ, all His people will be gathered together unto Him.

The resurrection happens at His coming, when He appears to all men.

He came once in the flesh.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews 9:28



JLB

 

[claninja]

I would have to disagree, because nobody but Christ ever kept the Law of Moses.

I did not mean keeping the law as in keeping it perfectly. I meant attempting to the following the Law. We can clearly see the believing Jews were "keeping/observing" the law after the cross throughout the books of acts

King David was an adulterer and a murderer who was saved by faith in the coming Messiah, instead of the works of the Law of Moses.

I agree, the Law of moses never saved anyone. It was a schoolmaster until Christ. The debt to the law was cancelled at the cross:

Colossians 2:14
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

We also see the battle between the Judaisers and the Apostles already occurring in Acts chapter 15.

absolutely. New wine does not go into old wine skins, but this was easier said than done for Jews who had been part of the old covenant for for quite a long time. Hence why Paul acts like Jew when he is around Jews and gentile, when around gentiles.

Acts 15:24 makes it clear that the Old Covenant was finished

I wouldn't say it is very clear in Acts 15:24. The context is Christ believing Jews burdening gentiles with the all of the Law of moses.

The apostles and elders then sent a letter to the gentiles stating they only had to follow 4 laws from the law of moses, so they wouldn't be so burdened.

Acts 15:28-29
For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

However, we do know that Paul had Timothy circumcised? Why?
It had to be in order to satisfy the Jews that they were preaching to, as well as the Judaisers who still could not let go of the Old Covenant.
Paul said all things were lawful to him. However, he attempted not to offend those in the synagogues he was preaching to.

I agree

The Pharisees and others who rejected Christ but continued animal sacrifices between Calvary and 70 AD could not have eternal life based on what Christ told Nicodemus.
Nobody will enter the kingdom without being "born again" of the Spirit.

I agree

Christ did not tell Nicodemus that he could be saved by the Law of Moses, and or Christ.

I agree, and I for one am thankful for this, as the keeping the Law saves no one.

Paul did not give the Galatian believers a choice to be saved by the works of the Law of Moses or to be saved by the New Covenant.
Paul made it crystal clear that they could not be saved by the Law of Moses.

I absolutely agree, the Law saves no one. It was a mere shadow of Christ.

The comment about the law passing away in Hebrews 8:13 has to be viewed in context of the beginning of the verse and the rest of Hebrews 8:6-13.
The New Covenant had already made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

I read the context and still Not following you. Maybe you could explain this a bit further.

as well as Galatians 4:24-31.

When were the children of the slave woman cast out? After the persecution of the free children.

Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

Please, come back onto the road of the New Covenant...

Not of Works:

I don't believe in salvation of works. Even when the old covenant was in full effect, it never saved anyone. It only provided earthly blessings and curses. It was only a picture of Christ. It is solely through Christ's redemptive work. Why do you keep bringing up that I believe in works based salvation? Did i say that somewhere? If I did, I apologize.

 

[claninja]

Yes. The generation that see’s the signs that were listed by Christ, will see Him coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

t the resurrection of the dead in Christ, all His people will be gathered together unto Him.

The resurrection happens at His coming, when He appears to all men.

He came once in the flesh.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews 9:28



JLB

I agree