Hymns can be pretty bad too

[ViaCrucis]

But heaven is not our home. Our home is the future yet to come.

In any case, these hymns are hardly 'perfect.'

Because I can see at least someone possibly thinking about pulling up Philippians 3:20 which says "our citizenship is in heaven" I thought I'd quickly add that the text very explicitly says what that means:

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body."

Perhaps somewhat important here, it's it's not saying our "home" is in a sky far, far away; but rather the administrative authority that is over us (πολίτευμα politeuma) is from, has its origin or source (ὑπάρχω hyparcho) in heaven. Namely the reign and rule of Jesus Christ who, now seated at the right hand of the Father ruling until all things are submitted beneath His feet, will come again and finish the whole thing. Jesus is the Lord and "CEO" of the Church, and heaven--at the right hand of the Father--is the head office, the oval office as it were where the Lord of lords and King of kings rules and reigns over and through His Church until the day He comes again.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lion King]

But heaven is not our home. Our home is the future yet to come.

In any case, these hymns are hardly 'perfect.'

Our home is in heaven. However, it will only be revealed after the Great Day of Judgement.


PS. what fault do you find with the praise song "How great thou art"?

 

[James Is Back]

I guess it's one of those different strokes for different folks things.

Oh by the way I also like Amazing Grace.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Our home is in heaven. However, it will only be revealed after the Great Day of Judgement.


PS. what fault do you find with the praise song "How great thou art"?

Same reason as ViaCrucis, and the same reason I find fault with "Heaven Is Our Home."

Our ultimate home is the renewed earth infused with the Holy Spirit, not some far-off disembodied existence. That's Christian orthodox. That's the Nicene Creed. Resurrection, not immortality of the soul.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Hank explains it all.

The Truth behind Christian Rock: according to Hank Hill (Season 8 Episode 2: Reborn to be Wild) - YouTube

 

[Lion King]

Same reason as ViaCrucis, and the same reason I find fault with "Heaven Is Our Home."

Our ultimate home is the renewed earth infused with the Holy Spirit, not some far-off disembodied existence. That's Christian orthodox. That's the Nicene Creed. Resurrection, not immortality of the soul.

I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. John 17:14-17

Here the Scriptures says we are not of this world. If we are but strangers in this world, where is our home?

____

“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” John 14:1-4

Here Christ says He is going to prepare a place for His disciples and when He comes back, He will take them with Him. Where did Jesus go? Was it not to heaven?

____

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3-5

Continuing from the previous passage, Peter states that our inheritance is stored up in heaven waiting to be revealed at Christ's return. Could this be the home that Christ has gone and prepared for us? Could it?
____

When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,
And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart.
Then I shall bow, in humble adoration,
And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!"
​

Where exactly is the contradiction between the Scriptures and the song "how great thou art"?

As i said before, some people will complain just about anything.

 

[Cappadocious]

Here the Scriptures says we are not of this world. If we are but strangers in this world, where is our home?

The age/world/order to come, as opposed to this age/world/order.

Προσδοκῶ ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν
Καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος.

 

[Lion King]

The age/world/order to come, as opposed to this age/world/order.

Προσδοκῶ ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν
Καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος.

Let me get this straight, so Christ was saying He is not of this world, but of the one that is to come? Somehow, I doubt that's what He meant in John 17:14-17.

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place." John 18:36

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23

Where is Christ's Kingdom? Is it not in heaven? It's called the Kingdom of heaven for a reason...


The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 2 Timothy 4:18

Bring your children home O' God. Bring 'em home. Amen.

 

[Strong in Him]

My Baptist mother of blessed memory sang this to me as a lullaby. Now that I understand the words, I cringe. It makes God's presence and love sound totally conditional and something to be earned. It also says that if we are obedient, we will always be happy, which simply is not true.

1. When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
   What a glory He sheds on our way!
   While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
   And with all who will trust and obey.
   • Refrain:
     Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
     To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.
2. Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies,
   But His smile quickly drives it away;
   Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear,
   Can abide while we trust and obey.
   .................................
   

Yes, this used to be my favourite hymn (I was only a teenager). Then I realised it is saying that if we trust in, and obey, Jesus, we can never be sad, fearful or doubt. It also implies that he will not be with us unless we are doing his will.

Matthew tells us that the disciples worshipped Jesus before the ascension, even though some of them doubted (Matt 28:17) and the risen Jesus appeared to Thomas to allay his doubts. Doubt is not wrong. Maybe the author of this hymn didn't mean to imply that it is, but that's what comes across.

I love "How Great thou art"!
Personally I can't see a problem with saying how beautiful the world is but expressing delight in the thought of going home to be with God. Even Paul said that dying was better than staying in the world.

 

[MoreCoffee]

My Baptist mother of blessed memory sang this to me as a lullaby. Now that I understand the words, I cringe. It makes God's presence and love sound totally conditional and something to be earned. It also says that if we are obedient, we will always be happy, which simply is not true.

1. When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
   What a glory He sheds on our way!
   While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
   And with all who will trust and obey.
   • Refrain:
     Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
     To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.
2. Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies,
   But His smile quickly drives it away;
   Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear,
   Can abide while we trust and obey.
3. Not a burden we bear, not a sorrow we share,
   But our toil He doth richly repay;
   Not a grief or a loss, not a frown or a cross,
   But is blessed if we trust and obey.
4. But we never can prove the delights of His love
   Until all on the altar we lay;
   For the favor He shows, for the joy He bestows,
   Are for them who will trust and obey.
5. Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet,
   Or we’ll walk by His side in the way;
   What He says we will do, where He sends we will go;
   Never fear, only trust and obey.

Despite your misgivings it is trust in Christ and obedience that - generally speaking - lead to a life with more joy than would be the case for not trusting and disobeying. It isn't that one is earning joy but rather that joy in Christ comes in and through doing what he commands.

John 15:5-11 RSV

(5) I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
(6) If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
(7) If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.
(8) By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples.
(9) As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love.
(10) If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(11) These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.​

 

[Strong in Him]

Despite your misgivings it is trust in Christ and obedience that - generally speaking - lead to a life with more joy than would be the case for not trusting and disobeying. It isn't that one is earning joy but rather that joy in Christ comes in and through doing what he commands.

John 15:5-11 RSV

(5) I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
(6) If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned.
(7) If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you.
(8) By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples.
(9) As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love.
(10) If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
(11) These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.​

Absolutely. But someone can be abiding in Christ and feel sad, worried or depressed. It is also possible to do something, believing it to be God's will, it doesn't work out and you are left feeling confused, sad or whatever. This hymn appears to say that that can never be.

 

[Lion King]

Yes, this used to be my favourite hymn (I was only a teenager). Then I realised it is saying that if we trust in, and obey, Jesus, we can never be sad, fearful or doubt. It also implies that he will not be with us unless we are doing his will.

Matthew tells us that the disciples worshipped Jesus before the ascension, even though some of them doubted (Matt 28:17) and the risen Jesus appeared to Thomas to allay his doubts. Doubt is not wrong. Maybe the author of this hymn didn't mean to imply that it is, but that's what comes across.

I love "How Great thou art"!
Personally I can't see a problem with saying how beautiful the world is but expressing delight in the thought of going home to be with God. Even Paul said that dying was better than staying in the world.

Doubt is the enemy of faith. Doubt is to faith what "kryptonite" is to Superman.

Was doubt not the reason Moses was barred from entering the promised land by the LORD (Numbers 20:8-12)?
Was doubt not the reason Peter sank into the sea (Matthew 14:31)?

Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done." Matthew 21:21

____

But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. James 1:6-7

 

[Shane R]

Just As I Am

 

[Cappadocious]

Let me get this straight, so Christ was saying He is not of this world, but of the one that is to come?

Yes.

Where is Christ's Kingdom? Is it not in heaven? It's called the Kingdom of heaven for a reason...

Christ is King over the heavens and the earth, and that which is under the earth.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the eschatological reality of the Age to Come, which is the New Heaven and the New Earth joined to it. It is a new order from heaven.

 

[Lion King]

Yes.

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23

Jesus seems to disagree.

Christ is King over the heavens and the earth, and that which is under the earth.

The Kingdom of Heaven is the eschatological reality of the Age to Come, which is the New Heaven and the New Earth joined to it. It is a new order from heaven.

Yes, but where is Christ's Kingdom? Obviously, it's not in this world because He said so Himself in John 18:36.

PS. Satan controls this age/world ( 1 John 5:19, 2 Corinthians 4:4).

 

[James Is Back]

Christ's Kingdom is in heaven now until He returns and claims His bride.

 

[Cappadocious]

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23

"World" does not mean "realm" in the modern sense for Christians. It means an age, an order, a way of existing.

 

[ViaCrucis]

"World" does not mean "realm" in the modern sense for Christians. It means an age, an order, a way of existing.

Bingo. Which is why when Scripture says that "friendship with the world is enmity with God" it doesn't mean being friends with other humans, or regarding sunsets and mountains as beautiful. It means an attachment and fondness for the way things are, this present order of darkness, sin, and death; where violence and war reign and suffering is the ever-present reality. Rather we are a people who are called out from these things, in Christ, to set our eyes for what is to come when God makes all things new.

The place Christ has prepared for us is in a new heavens and a new earth, Christ's kingdom is not a reign and rule like the reign and rule of this present order but is God's reign, not the imperial foot upon the necks of the poor and the oppressed like the kingdoms of this world, but where least is greatest.

God's ways, God's order, the reality of God-as-king is fundamentally other than the order and reign of death and sin as we see present now. Christ is of that, not of this; we are called toward that, not this. To be a people of faith and hope, seeing not yet what we hope for but trusting with faith in the promises of God, and only then--on the Last--with our eyes behold what we now hope for.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lion King]

"World" does not mean "realm" in the modern sense for Christians. It means an age, an order, a way of existing.

It was just before the Passover Festival. Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. John 13:1

Which world does Jesus currently reside in?

 

[Sean611]

I'll take a bad hymn over bad Christian rock music any day of the week and twice on Sunday lol. Before I get bashed, I would like to state that I'm a huge fan of rock, hard rock, and heavy metal....just not Christian rock.