Husband refuses being called lord/master

[DZoolander]

lol - I would look at my wife askew if suddenly she started using those terms.

 

[Dave-W]

But one thing he really doesn't like, is when I call him lord or master, like it says to do in 1 Peter 3. He will respond that he's egalitarian, I'm not his property or slave, and that my wishes matter just as much as his, so none of that lord/master stuff.

As a man and husband who has been a believer since early childhood, and the son of a mysognistic pastor, I would get very upset with my wife if she ever tried to call me that, or even act like that was the case.

I am totally with your husband on that one.

 

[All4Christ]

So my general response outside of the whole submission issue is that we don’t need to literally use the exact same terms listed in Scripture in regards to talking to each other, especially non-Christians. Our behavior can reflect the meaning of the term, considering what the term meant at the time Scripture was written.

Language changes, culture changes, though truth remains (though I disagree with your understanding of this truth - which we can discuss later outside of this forum). As someone who is part of the Orthodox Church - we don’t like change but we still realize that language changes, and what it meant 500 years ago or 1000 years ago...even 2000 years ago, may be completely different than what it means today. It also may totally confuse someone by what we mean. Even 1 Peter 3 says to show the unbelieving husband by our behavior. I hope this helps

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I’m with your husband on this one... One can be submissive to the other, a couple can be mutually submissive, or they can operate in another Biblical dynamic. But it would seem to me common sense that if a partner in any of those dynamics says “don’t call me that,” you don’t do it out of respect.

Especially since if the goal is submission, if the one you’re submitting to says “stop,” to follow that instruction would be submitting, to refuse it wouldn’t be.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi. Conservative Christian female here married to a non-theistic male. We met at a time when I wasn't in the faith (2004).

Since I returned to the faith in 2005, husband has respected my need for faith. I currently attend (and have been confirmed by) a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, have regular prayer time and study, and he's fine with all of this. A couple of years ago, he even volunteered with me for a time for a homeless ministry when I attended a different church (Calvary Chapel). He also even likes it when I call myself his helpmeet, and enjoys the protective role.

But one thing he really doesn't like, is when I call him lord or master, like it says to do in 1 Peter 3. He will respond that he's egalitarian, I'm not his property or slave, and that my wishes matter just as much as his, so none of that lord/master stuff.

Is it best to just not bring this up anymore? I know wives are to be submissive, yet first to God, and then to husbands. In this case, I'm wondering how to combine the two. Perhaps it would be most sensible to find a "middle road" and continue to act as the submissive wife who views husband as lord/master, without actually bringing it up verbally, so as to avoid annoying him?

Thoughts?

Hi kdm1984!

First of all, welcome to CF!

Secondly, I'm with the others here who suggest that referring to your husband as "Lord or Master" is something that can be set aside without relinquishing any of your faith in Christ. The main thing is that you're respectful of him, helpful, supportive and loving. In that sense, you're already 'saying' to him that you value him as the man of your family.

Moreover, there's not really anything wrong with your husband's egalitarian viewpoint about men and women. In fact, it's safe to say that in Christ, a lot of that differentiation is removed, and since you're a Christian, and he at the same time respects and loves you as an equal before the face of God (even though he doesn't believe all of the Christian aspect of this at the present moment), there's nothing wrong with adopting this kind of framework in place of the more overt assertion which a lot of Christians sometimes get carried away with in placing the husband at the fore of the family and bestowing upon him titles like, "El Head Honcho."

With that, God bless you, sister!

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[“Paisios”]

Hi. Conservative Christian female here married to a non-theistic male. We met at a time when I wasn't in the faith (2004).

Since I returned to the faith in 2005, husband has respected my need for faith. I currently attend (and have been confirmed by) a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, have regular prayer time and study, and he's fine with all of this. A couple of years ago, he even volunteered with me for a time for a homeless ministry when I attended a different church (Calvary Chapel). He also even likes it when I call myself his helpmeet, and enjoys the protective role.

But one thing he really doesn't like, is when I call him lord or master, like it says to do in 1 Peter 3. He will respond that he's egalitarian, I'm not his property or slave, and that my wishes matter just as much as his, so none of that lord/master stuff.

Is it best to just not bring this up anymore? I know wives are to be submissive, yet first to God, and then to husbands. In this case, I'm wondering how to combine the two. Perhaps it would be most sensible to find a "middle road" and continue to act as the submissive wife who views husband as lord/master, without actually bringing it up verbally, so as to avoid annoying him?

Thoughts?

I think of myself as head of our household, yet would be very upset if my wife called me “Lord” or “Master”, since we both share one Lord and Master Jesus Christ. My spiritual headship is not one of superiority, but rather as a servant leader, as when Christ washed His disciples’ feet. Some decisions are left to me (unavoidable in some cases), but they are always made with consultation of my wife and generally with her consent, and with her wellbeing in mind, and in love (except when, in my sinfulness, I fail to meet that standard).

Who am I that I should claim the title Lord?

 

[Deidre32]

My husband isn't my master.

 

[kdm1984]

I mentioned Voddie Baucham earlier. It's interesting that his daughter, Jasmine Holmes, is increasingly distancing herself from the lord/master literalism she was taught in the Stay At Home Daughter movement (cult?), and has written quite a few articles in the last two years about how 'embarrassing' her connection to that sort of thinking is to her now. Her most recent article on the subject:

https://www.fathommag.com/stories/so-you-hate-biblical-womanhood

"I do believe my husband is the head of our household. But I also believe that responsibility ought to be defined as it has been historically: “A divinely sanctioned office that conferred a duty to represent not his own individual interests, but those of the entire household” (Total Truth, Nancy Pearcey).

That is to say, this household is oriented around how the Holmes family can best serve God, not how Mrs. Holmes can best serve Mr. Holmes. Because, honestly, who does that guy think he is?

It is not glorifying to God to take an extreme view of Paul’s Ephesians 5 analogy, such that your husband literally takes the place of Jesus. It’s idolatrous. Paul gave us an analogy and treating it as one puts our husbands back in proper perspective. But you can’t get there by hiding from hard questions and labeling them as inherently rebellious."

Contrast that with the views of this woman:

http://www.ephrataministries.org/remnant-2002-01-my-Lord-and-my-lord.a5w

"We are one flesh. When Daniel speaks into my life I listen in the same way I would listen if it were Jesus Christ talking to me. My dear husband IS Jesus speaking into my life!"

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Yeah, no.

 

[Dave-W]

"We are one flesh. When Daniel speaks into my life I listen in the same way I would listen if it were Jesus Christ talking to me. My dear husband IS Jesus speaking into my life!"

That is idolatry. "No other Gods before Me ..."

 

[All4Christ]

I mentioned Voddie Baucham earlier. It's interesting that his daughter, Jasmine Holmes, is increasingly distancing herself from the lord/master literalism she was taught in the Stay At Home Daughter movement (cult?), and has written quite a few articles in the last two years about how 'embarrassing' her connection to that sort of thinking is to her now. Her most recent article on the subject:

https://www.fathommag.com/stories/so-you-hate-biblical-womanhood

"I do believe my husband is the head of our household. But I also believe that responsibility ought to be defined as it has been historically: “A divinely sanctioned office that conferred a duty to represent not his own individual interests, but those of the entire household” (Total Truth, Nancy Pearcey).

That is to say, this household is oriented around how the Holmes family can best serve God, not how Mrs. Holmes can best serve Mr. Holmes. Because, honestly, who does that guy think he is?

It is not glorifying to God to take an extreme view of Paul’s Ephesians 5 analogy, such that your husband literally takes the place of Jesus. It’s idolatrous. Paul gave us an analogy and treating it as one puts our husbands back in proper perspective. But you can’t get there by hiding from hard questions and labeling them as inherently rebellious."

Contrast that with the views of this woman:

http://www.ephrataministries.org/remnant-2002-01-my-Lord-and-my-lord.a5w

"We are one flesh. When Daniel speaks into my life I listen in the same way I would listen if it were Jesus Christ talking to me. My dear husband IS Jesus speaking into my life!"

The view of the second seems quite dangerous spiritually. Dave already mentioned a good point, and I concur. After reading the whole article, I felt a total sense of unrightness - of spiritual danger for any woman that follows her direction to put all of our trust in our husbands believing that they are our connection to God. Check out Psalms 118 and Psalms 146.

 

[kdm1984]

It does sound like idolatry, doesn't it? They'll accuse you of slander if you say that, though. I knew a Calvinist family who was heavily into patriarchy (look up Vision Forum and Doug Phillips) and refused to accept there were problems with it. GotQuestions posts the same warning, along with others related to this movement:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Quiverfull-Patriarchy.html

"Perhaps the greatest danger of the Patriarchy Movement is the potential to raise the husband/father to a spiritual authority approaching idolatry. While the man is the spiritual head of the family, he is not the intermediary between family members and God."

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Never heard anyone call their husband that. Sounds weird. I mean if we were back in more ancient times maybe that was the lingo of back then. But today no one uses those terms.