Husband as head of household....?

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The Princess Bride

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I actually LOVE this verse in the Bible about wives submitting to their husbands...call me crazy, but let me explain my reason on this!

We as children are commanded to obey and submit to our parents...

However, we ladies when we marry may CHOOSE the man to which we submit ourself.

Submission IS NOT a state of servant hood or neglect.Submitting does not dis-qualify the brain God gave ladies, nor their imput, ideals, and dreams.

In a marriage where the husband and wife are in agreement about their intended roles, it is a radical expression of love!

God did not design husbands to "be better", because in the sense of verse 21 ". . . and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ." we are spiritual and heavenly equals in God's sight, however, God did make them the leader.
Marriage is a wonderful thing, and so is submission.

Submission provides structure and function into the marriage.

Marrige is NOT about: equality, importance, intelligence or value, it's about structure and function that make it work.

God's design in submission is NOT a limitation, but a protection and provision for the wife and her family.

Honestly now, who has the most influence in the home? MOM has so much influence and power, she does not need the role of leader! BUT without submission to a husbands authority come all the weight and responsiblity of the home, which women were not meant to bear. (I mean, isnt there enough to be dealt with in the home already?)

ONE person MUST be the leader. You cannot have two indian chiefs.

"A leader with no followers is merely someone out on a walk" to paraphrase John Maxwell.

It is not a drearisome thing, but a shield of protective authority.


A woman needs to STEP IN to help her husband, so he can STEP UP to what he is called to be.

Husbands may have the final say so in most matters, but they are the ones who must stand before God on account of their leadership.


So, I guess what I am saying is...ladies, if you knowlingly could not submit to the man you may be seeing, odds are, you need to move on to find some you can.

Oh, Chip Ingram gave an exceptionally well taught message on this very thing...it can be listened to online, so for anyone who is interested, just drop me a PM for the link. :)
 
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PeacaHeaven

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So my bf and I got in an argument about the verse (I dont have my bible right here so im not sure exactly what verse) Where it says that the Male is head of the household. Can someone please explain this to me? What exactly it means and how it fits into our world in 2007 with women playing a HUGE roll in the household now.... Thanx!
Hi :)
In my marriage, my husband is the head of our household and I'm happy that he is.

I think one of the reasons women have problems with these verses on submitting is that alot of men today aren't being the type of men they should be as Godly men submitting to God and being responsible with integrity and wisdom.

My husband loves the Lord and I have full trust in him to lead our home and he does a great job.
We have mutual love and submission to each other.

When we live the way God sets things up and stay close to Him, marriage can be very beautiful and wonderful. But both sexes have to work on it
 
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vswift

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Here is an example. In your church, everyone is equal in the eyes of the Lord. The master is no higher than the servant. But your Pastor is the leader of the church and God speaks to him, concerning the congregation. Does this mean that he doesnt speak to members, no. Does it mean that the Pastor is above the members, no. It means that he is the spiritual leader. This is how your household should be with your husband. Not commanding, but communicating with God on what the matters of the home are. Someone is to be held responsible and that is the man's job.
 
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Cris413

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I would say it doesn't apply anymore, at least not where i live.
Maybe in certain cultures it may apply.

In our house, we are equal.
It can't be too wrong, we are still happily married after 22 years.
I believe you are walking dangerous ground when you consider anything in the Bible doesn't apply any more. By the power of the Holy Spirit you have decernment of Scripture. I believe the New Testiment fullfills the Law of the Old Testiment but I would be quite concerned about my spiritual well being if I ever come to the conclusion that anything in God's Word no longer applies.
 
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Cris413

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Hi :)
In my marriage, my husband is the head of our household and I'm happy that he is.

I think one of the reasons women have problems with these verses on submitting is that alot of men today aren't being the type of men they should be as Godly men submitting to God and being responsible with integrity and wisdom.

My husband loves the Lord and I have full trust in him to lead our home and he does a great job.
We have mutual love and submission to each other.

When we live the way God sets things up and stay close to Him, marriage can be very beautiful and wonderful. But both sexes have to work on it
Amen Sister
 
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Svt4Him

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] God's Rule Governing Submission[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As we go over various Scriptures concerning submission, note carefully four very important items. Without knowing these boundary lines, we could be submitting to someone who God doesn’t want to control us, perhaps our own spouse.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]•Notice first that the submitting we do is to be ONLY to that which is from the heart of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]•Secondly, there is ALWAYS a resisting to that which is of the devil’s heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]•Thirdly, there is ALWAYS a drawing near to God.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]•And fourthly, there is ALWAYS a moving away from that which is evil.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is a key to understanding proper submission (submission that is truly ordained of God). This key is found in the Scripture that speaks of the highest order of submission.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]THIS IS THE KEY: ALL THAT WHICH THE HIGHEST-ORDER SCRIPTURE SAYS CONCERNING SUBMISSION UNTO GOD MUST HOLD TRUE FOR ALL SUBORDINATE TYPES OF SUBMISSION SCRIPTURES AS WELL. There are servant Scriptures, and there are master Scriptures. “A servant is not greater than his master” (John 15:20a). The following Scripture is a master, the highest-order Scripture regarding submission. ALL other (servant) Scriptures concerning submission cannot carry their own meaning apart from their master. The servant or subordinate Scriptures carry the heart of the master Scripture. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let’s take a look at the highest-order Scripture for submission:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]”Therefore SUBMIT TO GOD [and not to the devil], [but] RESIST THE DEVIL ...[and] DRAW NEAR TO GOD...” (James 4:7,8).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is the highest order of submission that we “submit to God.” God Himself is the Highest! Notice that in submitting to God we are to “resist the devil.” If we are to submit to God, we are submitting to His thoughts and His ways. If we are to resist the devil, we are to resist his thoughts and his ways.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Bible says to “Let the wicked FORSAKE HIS WAY, and the unrighteous man his THOUGHTS; Let him RETURN [TO THE WAYS AND THOUGHTS OF] THE LORD...” (Isaiah 55:7). The Lord is saying that those who have submitted to and embraced any other “thoughts” and any other “ways” than His, have sinned and gone AWAY from the Lord. That’s why He says to “return.” The Lord continues, “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways...” (Isaiah 55:8). Why did the Lord say that His thoughts and His ways were not ours, and our ways not His? Because we have accepted someone else’s thoughts and ways and rejected His. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SUBMISSION AND REBELLION ARE ALWAYS FOR OR AGAINST SOMEONE’S THOUGHTS OR WAYS. God wants us to return and submit ONLY to His thoughts and His ways. His thoughts and His ways are only known by knowing Him personally and by knowing what is written in His Word, the Bible.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If we return to His ways of thinking and acting, the Scriptures promise: that we “...shall go out with joy, and be led with peace; the mountains and hills shall break forth into singing before you ...INSTEAD OF THE THORN shall come up the cypress tree, and INSTEAD OF THE BRIER shall come up the myrtle tree...” (Isaiah 55:12,13). Therefore, if we submit ourselves to someone that leads us to violate God’s Word or our conscience, we are submitting to the devil instead of resisting him. In reality, we resist God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This highest-order submission Scripture says to “draw near to God.” As we submit to anyone, we should be drawing near to God. Of course, our own selfishness can keep us from drawing closer to God while we submit to another. It may appear like we’re submitting, but we do not have the right attitude or motive in our heart. The right attitude and motive is to please God in all ways. The submission experience should transform us into the likeness of Jesus Christ Himself. If we are submitting to the lies of the devil, we are being drawn to our enemy and becoming like him. We are constantly being changed. That change depends upon who is our lord: God and His instructions, or the devil and his instructions.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Submission Always Has Resistance
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let’s examine the subordinate submission Scriptures in light of our submission to God. Godly submission is always “to God” and “against the devil.” Satanic submission, or satan worship is always “to satan” and “against God.” SUBMISSION ALWAYS HAS RESISTANCE. When you’re submitting to God by surrendering control to Him, you must resist the “other god”. If you are submitting to the devil and his deeds, you are resisting God. Submission ALWAYS includes surrender AND resistance. For “no man can serve TWO masters…” (Matthew 6:24a).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The highest-order submission Scripture tells us to submit yourself to God: “Therefore, SUBMIT TO GOD [and not to the devil]. [But] RESIST THE DEVIL ...[AND] DRAW NEAR TO GOD...” (James 4:7,8).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The subordinate submission Scriptures tells wives to submit to their OWN husbands: “Wives, SUBMIT to your own husbands, AS TO THE LORD” (Ephesians 5:22). Notice that wives are not to submit to “another man”, but the man of the marriage. More importantly, the submission to the man of the marriage is “AS TO THE LORD.” What does “as to the Lord” mean? And to whom is submission rendered? “As to the Lord” is the way a Christian ought to submit to others. Whether it is our spouses, our employer, or those who are in law enforcement or government authorities, the submission that we render to them is the same submission that we would render to the Lord Jesus Himself — “as [we would submit] to the Lord.” Meaning, God commands us to resist evil no matter what form it comes in and no matter who it comes through.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We have been taught that we are to blindly follow our spouse, but that is just not true. God set up specific guidelines in His written Word for us so we will not be deceived and do wrong. Gods’ written Word is our foundation. His Holy Spirit will lead and guide us according to that Word. The Lord Himself would not have anyone do anything ungodly (evil) or under coercion or manipulation. In a marriage, submitting “as to the Lord” is submitting to that which is OF THE LORD in your spouse.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For instance, let’s say that an angle spoke to us to do something evil, we would have NO choice but to resist and say, “No!” The Word of God, which is our instructions on how to submit, says to “Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Resist the devil ...[and] draw near to God...” (Romans 12:9, James 4:7, 8), NO MATTER WHO IT IS! Even if it’s “...an angel from heaven ...let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). The Scripture says to “cling to what is good” (Romans 12:9c). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CLINGING IS SUBMITTING! WHEN IT’S “OF THE LORD”, YOU SUBMIT “AS TO THE LORD.” WHEN IT’S NOT “OF THE LORD”, YOU DON’T SUBMIT “AS TO THE LORD.” For example, you are not to submit to abuse; it’s not “of the Lord.”
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quoted with permission:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.divorcehope.com/christiangodlysubmissioninmarriage.htm
[/FONT]
 
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Svt4Him

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Hi :)
e reasons women have problems with these verses on submitting is that alot of men today aren't being the type of men they should be as Godly men submitting to God and being responsible with integrity and wisdom.

But the Bible doesn't say to submit when a husband is Godly, in the same way it doesn't tell a man to love his wife when she is Godly.

I would suggest the reason there is a problem goes back to the fall where God said the wife will desire her husband, but the husband will rule over her. The word desire, in the context, suggests desire to rule, as any other desire isn't a bad thing.
 
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Cris413

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I really appreciated FOLLOWERS4CHRIST post dated Jan 27th. I felt in my heart it was right on. I hope you read it.

I also want to mention Epilogue: The Wife of Noble Character. Proverbs 31:10-31. (NIV)

You will notice in those verses that the wife described here is certainly not some enslaved, mindless woman.

Some of my favorite verses are: notes in ( ) are my thoughts

Verse 10 - Her husband has full confidence in her and lacks nothing of value. (respect and trust)

Verse 15 - She gets up while it is still dark: she provides food for her family and portions for servant girls.

Verse 16 - She considers a field and buys it; out of her earnings she plants a vineyard. (I don't see where she asks her husband first - going back to verse 10 her husband has full confidence in her)

Verse 17 - She sets about her work vigorously; her arms are strong for her tasks.

Verse 18 - She sees that her trading is profitable and her lamp does not go out at night. (good steward with family finances)

Verses - 21 When it snows she has no fear for her household; for all of them are clothed in scarlet (covering of the blood of Jesus) 22- She makes coverings for her bed; she is clothed in fine linen and purple. 23- Her husband is respected at the city gate, where he takes his seat among the elders of the land. (she is also confident her husband is grounded in faith and is a godly man)

Verse 25 - She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come (peaceful and joyful & confident God is in control)

Verse 26 - She speaks with wisdom and faithful instruction is on her tongue ( again refer to verse 10 her husband values her counsel).

When I combine this with the Scripture noted by FOLLOWER4CHRIST...sound like a pretty good plan to me and totally applicable for marriage today.

Be blessed,

Cris
 
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mahalia

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i can see that i am gonna get a lot of criticism for my following post, but... so be it.

i cannot say i agree with what y'all are saying...

most, if not all of the verses that say women must be subservient etc etc, are from letters that mere mortals wrote to congregations.

the books that are in the Bible as we know it, were put there by white men. there are many other apochrive books that might have gone against their patriarchal attitudes.

funny, isn't it, that so few books in the Bible are from women, yet so many apochrive books are...

and i can assure you that a great few mistakes were made with the translations of the bible. for example, genesis 2:18, where the word "helpmate's" correct translation is actually "lifesaving counterpart". (members of my church attended a course in biblical languages and translations)

i'll have y'all remember, God is divine, and divinity does not have a gender. the reason he is referred to as masculine in the Bible is because society those days considered men to be in control and so forth, basically they preferred men as rulers.

i don't see, anyways, why a loving God would make one gender less important in decision making than another. when and if i marry on day, my husband and i will be equal and both take part in making decisions.

finish en klaar.
 
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*Starlight*

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I don't believe that in a marriage one person should be required to be the "head of the household" just because they have a specific gender. Every person is different... some people are better leaders, and some aren't... and so also every relationship is different. If I ever get married, it will be an equal relationship where no one is the "head of the household", and if there are roles, they aren't determined by gender, but by specific individual traits.

So statements which say that "in a mariage the husband and the wife should fit into gender roles" contradict reality...
 
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BereanTodd

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I don't believe that in a marriage one person should be required to be the "head of the household" just because they have a specific gender. Every person is different... some people are better leaders, and some aren't... and so also every relationship is different. If I ever get married, it will be an equal relationship where no one is the "head of the household", and if there are roles, they aren't determined by gender, but by specific individual traits.

So statements which say that "in a mariage the husband and the wife should fit into gender roles" contradict reality...

So then why did God establish those roles specifically in Scripture? What was His purpose?
 
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BereanTodd

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You talk as though submitting makes you less of a person, or less valuable. What then do we say of Christ? Jesus willingly submitted to the Father's headship. Jesus throughout His life, and throughout eternity has submitted to the leading and guiding of the Father.

Are you better than Jesus? Are you too good for what is acceptable for Him?

I would also point out that ALL SCRIPTURE is God-breathed .... Man may have been the tool that God used to produce, preserve and collect the Scriptures, but the author is not man but the Holy Spirit. God wrote a book.

i can see that i am gonna get a lot of criticism for my following post, but... so be it.

i cannot say i agree with what y'all are saying...

most, if not all of the verses that say women must be subservient etc etc, are from letters that mere mortals wrote to congregations.

the books that are in the Bible as we know it, were put there by white men. there are many other apochrive books that might have gone against their patriarchal attitudes.

funny, isn't it, that so few books in the Bible are from women, yet so many apochrive books are...

and i can assure you that a great few mistakes were made with the translations of the bible. for example, genesis 2:18, where the word "helpmate's" correct translation is actually "lifesaving counterpart". (members of my church attended a course in biblical languages and translations)

i'll have y'all remember, God is divine, and divinity does not have a gender. the reason he is referred to as masculine in the Bible is because society those days considered men to be in control and so forth, basically they preferred men as rulers.

i don't see, anyways, why a loving God would make one gender less important in decision making than another. when and if i marry on day, my husband and i will be equal and both take part in making decisions.

finish en klaar.
 
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*Starlight*

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So then why did God establish those roles specifically in Scripture? What was His purpose?
I don't believe that God intends all people to fit into gender roles. For example, I don't fit into most of the traditional roles and stereotypes of my gender. So if gender roles were universally true, it would mean that I don't exist. But I really believe in my own existence... ^_^
 
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BereanTodd

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I don't believe that God intends all people to fit into gender roles. For example, I don't fit into most of the traditional roles and stereotypes of my gender. So if gender roles were universally true, it would mean that I don't exist. But I really believe in my own existence... ^_^

Why did He speak those words in Scripture then? Or do you deny that the Scripture is God's Word?
 
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*Starlight*

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Why did He speak those words in Scripture then? Or do you deny that the Scripture is God's Word?
Well, I don't believe that the whole Bible is God's word. Maybe it contains God's word, but as I said, what you're telling me contradicts reality... truth doesn't contradict reality.
 
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Followers4christ

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Well, I don't believe that the whole Bible is God's word. Maybe it contains God's word, but as I said, what you're telling me contradicts reality... truth doesn't contradict reality.



What you consider truth,is not always what God considers truth.So who's right man's truth or God's? You cannot pick and choose what scripture you wish to live by,You follow it all or none of it.God Bless


2 Timothy 3:16-17"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

1 Corinthians 15:2"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

James 1:22-25"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does."

Luke 6:46-49"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice.He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."

1 Peter 4:17"For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?"
 
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*Starlight*

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What you consider truth,is not always what God considers truth.So who's right man's truth or God's? You cannot pick and choose what scripture you wish to live by,You follow it all or none of it.God Bless
What I consider truth is something that doesn't contradict reality. If what you and BereanTodd are saying is true, then it means that I don't exist, because I contradict your truth. Now, good luck proving to me that I don't exist. :p
 
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Followers4christ

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What I consider truth is something that doesn't contradict reality. If what you and BereanTodd are saying is true, then it means that I don't exist, because I contradict your truth. Now, good luck proving to me that I don't exist. :p


How is submitting to you husband contradicting reality? If you are a woman regardless of stereotypes you should submit to your husband.The word of God does not change just because society or stereotypes changes.(Hebrews 13:8" Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever).God Bless


Ephesians 5:22-24"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
 
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How is submitting to you husband contradicting reality? If you are a woman regardless of stereotypes you should submit to your husband.The word of God does not change just because society or stereotypes changes.God Bless
First of all, I'm not a woman. ^_^ And second, if I ever get married, it will be an equal relationship, and a person's gender won't determine what kind of authority someone has. That's the only kind of relationship which would work for me. My own personality just doesn't fit into the "husband is the head of the household and the wife must submit" idea. If that idea was from God, then it wouldn't contradict reality in any case. :)
 
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Cris413

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i can see that i am gonna get a lot of criticism for my following post, but... so be it.

i cannot say i agree with what y'all are saying...

most, if not all of the verses that say women must be subservient etc etc, are from letters that mere mortals wrote to congregations.

the books that are in the Bible as we know it, were put there by white men. there are many other apochrive books that might have gone against their patriarchal attitudes.

funny, isn't it, that so few books in the Bible are from women, yet so many apochrive books are...

and i can assure you that a great few mistakes were made with the translations of the bible. for example, genesis 2:18, where the word "helpmate's" correct translation is actually "lifesaving counterpart". (members of my church attended a course in biblical languages and translations)

i'll have y'all remember, God is divine, and divinity does not have a gender. the reason he is referred to as masculine in the Bible is because society those days considered men to be in control and so forth, basically they preferred men as rulers.

i don't see, anyways, why a loving God would make one gender less important in decision making than another. when and if i marry on day, my husband and i will be equal and both take part in making decisions.

finish en klaar.
Yes, I agree some translations are better than others and a wise person studying the Bible will refer to other translations and the original language. Also knowing what the historical circumstances were, who the writer was and the audience to which it was written is also important.

One of the most important things to keep in mind is that without the discernment of the Holy Spirit the Bible could be viewed as no more than a historical document or a collection of stories.

I feel personally that all Scripture is the divinely inspired word of God. No matter the translation.

It always amazes me when I read a bit of Scripture and it speaks directly to my heart. It may not be for the reason it was written at the time but for God's reason as it applied to me at that moment. Then I'll read the same Scripture again at a different time and it does not move me in the same way, or move me at all. Another reading may touch my heart in a completely different way. It reminds me the Bible is the Living Word.

Actually I don't see much of a difference between "helpmate" and "lifesaving counterpart" the essence of both refer to the same ideal.

Whenever I read the Word, I pray first. I believe that there is no way for me to deepen my relationship with God or gain wisdom and understanding of God's word without the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

It also amazes me that if I have question or a concern and I look for something specific in the Bible...thinking thats where I'll get my answer and the Spirit will lead me to a passage of Scripture I hadn't even considered.

God is awesome and how cool is that we can have a personal relationship with Him...through His Word.

Please don't get so caught up in study and translations that you miss the heart of the Word.
 
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