Human & Ape Inquiry

SLP

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If you’ll notice, my OP was a series of three questions. In other words, I was looking for answers and not really offering an argument at that point.
I am familiar with your antics - start a thread "asking questions" - answers which you dismiss, ignore, mock, etc. Not a very honest way to engage in discussion, is it?
Of course, as the discussion progressed those developed. But, the questions still remain, for me anyway.
Of course they do - that is part of your routine, it seems. No matter what, you are never convinced, and that is the point to your Witnessing.
The only description I can provide is an inherent difference altogether (feeling, consciousness, or maybe metaphysical is the word),
So all you can offer is your 'feelings.'
but that seems to be equally as hard for me to articulate and defend, as it is for you guys to argue against scientifically.
How can we scientifically argue against your intangible, slippery 'feelings'?
And honestly, if you can’t see a difference, would a definition of it make things any different?
Of course I see differences. Only you seem to think that we believe there are none.
But what we - correctly - see as differences in degree, you assert, due to your Scripture-based 'feelings', are differences in 'kind.'

You cannot articulate why you 'feel' that way (of course, we all know why), but continue to insist that your 'feelings' have merit, scientifically,for some reason. Which is odd, considering that you have implied that you have a scientific background.
For example, take a look at this portion of a classification chart.
"Classification chart"?
If you had to choose one that seems the most out of place… which one would you pick? Be honest now.
I don't know what you mean, "out of place." By what criteria?
Oh, I get it - other primates have hairy faces, we don't, so Jesus is Lord.
View attachment 265528
I see, just in your "classification chart", a number of synapomorphic features. You see one thing and go with that. I get it, it is your indoctrination that drives you.
Anyway, I just can’t see the ability to speak, as a form of intelligence, expression, and communication, as having progressed by degree from animal to human status, even under the cloak of deep time… it’s unprecedented, and I’m wondering why?
You 'just can't see it'... and you are 'wondering why'?

Really?

I can answer that question just from what you've written in this thread!
Why didn’t some other kind (or variation) do it as well?
Why did those other people die in the plane crash, and just I survived? Must be some, purpose, some REASON... I must... be.... special!
And, if there is an inherent connection, if we are of the same fabric, and in a progressive state… why is there only the token scientific connection?
"Token"?

You mean other than all of the bland features that even the creationist Christian Carolus Linnaeus saw and used to classify humans along with other apes and monkeys as Primates (and, solely due to fear of the blowback from religious fanatics, put Humans in our own Family)?

Jeepers, I cannot say. :rolleyes:
Other than some special interest groups, people in general don’t consider apes or their dilemmas very much on a daily basis… why, when some continually rant that we’re all apes?
Other than some special interest groups, people in general don’t consider Eritreans/Inuuit/Moldovans/Armenians or their dilemmas very much on a daily basis...why, when some continually rant that we’re all humans?

Can you not see how juvenile your line of argumentation is? Do you really think your 'feelings' and 'opinions (based on your religious feelings)' are somehow beyond reproach?
My gosh...
I’m just trying to point out that a ‘naturally progressive’ answer doesn’t quite seem to explain it.
To you, no kidding. To you, ONLY a Scripture-based "explanation" matters, we get it.


Oh - you must have missed this:

Do we even have the actual remains of a last supposed common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees
Not that I am aware of - why? Do YOU have the remains of the supposed last common ancestor of the Ape-Kind and modern apes?

According to your version of reality, this supposed Intra-Kind split would have taken place fewer than 4500 years ago. If your version of reality had any merit, it should be EASY for, say, the owners of Hobby Lobby to have paid for at least a fake original Ape-Kind by now, seeing as how they shelled out millions for fake Dead sea scrolls in their zeal to prop up bible lore in their museum of lies and nonsense.
In fact, if the bible stories of the flood had merit, we should see ALL SORTS of ancestral remains for all Kinds littering the landscape of the middle east, at least.
Ape-Kind ancestor, Giraffe-Kind ancestor, Elephant-Kind ancestor, Bat-Kind ancestor, etc. - and remains of at least some of the incipient modern offspring of these Kinds, as well.

Where are THEY?

By all scientific, reality-based estimates, the population of the LCA of chimps and humans would have lived somewhere between ~7 and ~4 million years ago. You expect us to have, right now, in our possession, the "remains" (as if there was just one of them...) of this ancestor - that would have had to survive millions of years of geological and biological processes and to have then been found, whereas you do not even pretend to know about the existence of the Kind-ancestors of modern creatures!

We DO, however, have fossils of more chimp-like creatures and more human-like creatures from appropriate times, and of course, we have DNA data.

You have what, besides incredulity and doctrine?
(something that doesn't have likely, maybe, possibly, or could be attached to it), which would go a long way in connecting-the-dots of these grand assumptions you present?

When will you attempt to connect-the-dots - well, you don't even have dots to connect - for YOUR biological tales?

Where is YOUR data indicating massive repetitive rounds of MACROevolution from post-flood Kinds, producing the millions of extant species we see today?
Why on earth do you think you should get a free pass when it comes to evidence?
Why does your supposed science background tell you that only one side has to produce the goods?

To me, it appears as though the information is just backwards projection, throwing any possibility at the wall, hoping something will stick to confirm a natural process for the ability to speak, specifically, and for the macroevolution of man in general.
And that is why, to us, your "arguments" seem empty and desperate.​

Or is it that you have no ready-to-go 'feelings'-based retort that ignores most of what is written all ready to go?
 
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inquiring mind

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Hey, which one of these creatures seems most out of place, and why?

Y6amBp4.png


Be honest now!
The man... because he's not an animal.
 
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inquiring mind

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Lol, no, that's not how it works; you can't infer an argument from incredulity from your interpretation of what not giving an argument could mean - and even then, simply being unwilling or unable to believe or acknowledge something is not an argument from incredulity unless the reason given is incredulity or lack of comprehension.
I'm having difficulty comprehending this.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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The man... because he's not an animal.

Except... he is an animal. Biologically, all humans are animals. We know you don't like that fact, but that doesn't trump the fact that humans are animals.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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SLP

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The man... because he's not an animal.
It seems like you've seen this several times already:

Animal
Animals are a major group of organisms, classified as the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa.

In general they are multicellular, capable of locomotion and responsive to their environment, and feed by consuming other organisms.

Animals have several characteristics that set them apart from other living things.

Animals are eukaryotic and usually multicellular (although see Myxozoa), which separates them from bacteria and most protists.

They are heterotrophic, generally digesting food in an internal chamber, which distinguishes them from plants and algae.

They are also distinguished from plants, algae, and fungi because their cells lack cell walls.​


Humans:

- lack cell walls
- are heterotrophic
- are eukaryotic and multicellular
- are capable of locomotion and responsive to their environment, and feed by consuming other organisms


Other than your "feelings", you have nothing of merit or substance to counter the fact - Humans ARE animals, by definition.

Continuing to assert otherwise is mere childishness. You might do as well were you to stamp your feet and cry next time.
 
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SLP

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True, but I'm used to a lot of latitude in the connect-the-dots game.
The dots that you do not even have for your stories?


Do we even have the actual remains of a last supposed common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees
Not that I am aware of - why? Do YOU have the remains of the supposed last common ancestor of the Ape-Kind and modern apes?

According to your version of reality, this supposed Intra-Kind split would have taken place fewer than 4500 years ago. If your version of reality had any merit, it should be EASY for, say, the owners of Hobby Lobby to have paid for at least a fake original Ape-Kind by now, seeing as how they shelled out millions for fake Dead sea scrolls in their zeal to prop up bible lore in their museum of lies and nonsense.
In fact, if the bible stories of the flood had merit, we should see ALL SORTS of ancestral remains for all Kinds littering the landscape of the middle east, at least.
Ape-Kind ancestor, Giraffe-Kind ancestor, Elephant-Kind ancestor, Bat-Kind ancestor, etc. - and remains of at least some of the incipient modern offspring of these Kinds, as well.

Where are THEY?

By all scientific, reality-based estimates, the population of the LCA of chimps and humans would have lived somewhere between ~7 and ~4 million years ago. You expect us to have, right now, in our possession, the "remains" (as if there was just one of them...) of this ancestor - that would have had to survive millions of years of geological and biological processes and to have then been found, whereas you do not even pretend to know about the existence of the Kind-ancestors of modern creatures!

We DO, however, have fossils of more chimp-like creatures and more human-like creatures from appropriate times, and of course, we have DNA data.

You have what, besides incredulity and doctrine?
(something that doesn't have likely, maybe, possibly, or could be attached to it), which would go a long way in connecting-the-dots of these grand assumptions you present?

When will you attempt to connect-the-dots - well, you don't even have dots to connect - for YOUR biological tales?

Where is YOUR data indicating massive repetitive rounds of MACROevolution from post-flood Kinds, producing the millions of extant species we see today?
Why on earth do you think you should get a free pass when it comes to evidence?
Why does your supposed science background tell you that only one side has to produce the goods?

To me, it appears as though the information is just backwards projection, throwing any possibility at the wall, hoping something will stick to confirm a natural process for the ability to speak, specifically, and for the macroevolution of man in general.
And that is why, to us, your "arguments" seem empty and desperate.
 
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Speedwell

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We may possess all of those characteristics and be classifiable by them as 'animals' but that could just be a miraculous coincidence. Remember, it is fundamental to all that Inquiring Mind believes (including salvation in Christ) that we were made from dust and not from some other animal.
 
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