How would this sinner be saved, without works.

Can a prideful sinner be saved, if they stay prideful?

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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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If you meet a prideful sinner.
How would you tell him about Jesus, in order that he would be saved.
Keeping in mind, he will do what you say.

Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?

If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved.

What steps would he need to take, that aren't works, in order to be saved.


Keep in mind this verse: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time"

This is a question for those who vainly throw "saved by grace, not works" verse at every opportunity.
 
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~Zao~

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If you meet a prideful sinner.
How would you tell him about Jesus, in order that he would be saved.
Keeping in mind, he will do what you say.

Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?

If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved.

What steps would he need to take, that aren't works, in order to be saved.


Keep in mind this verse: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time"

This is a question for those who vainly throw "saved by grace, not works" verse at every opportunity.
I'd just ask him what he thinks about Jesus and go from there. Depending on his knowledge of Jesus and his relationship or lack thereof would direct the conversation of itself.
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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I'd just ask him what he thinks about Jesus and go from there. Depending on his knowledge of Jesus and his relationship or lack thereof would direct the conversation of itself.
Let's say he has full knowledge of who Jesus is. But he doesn't know how to be saved. What would you tell him: keeping in mind he's prideful.
 
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~Zao~

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Let's say he has full knowledge of who Jesus is. But he doesn't know how to be saved. What would you tell him: keeping in mind he's prideful.
"Prideful can be advantages when your back is against the wall because the back is the only place armour doesn't cover so turning back from following Christ is never advised. There is no need for pride if in right relation to Jesus. So tell me brother, where are your eyes engaged? Up or down?" Then see what he says. But really a conversation does have a life of it's own so no one can plan for anything. Keeping the conversation within the confines of Christ helps.
 
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bcbsr

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If you meet a prideful sinner.
How would you tell him about Jesus, in order that he would be saved.
Keeping in mind, he will do what you say.

Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?

If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved.

What steps would he need to take, that aren't works, in order to be saved.


Keep in mind this verse: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time"

This is a question for those who vainly throw "saved by grace, not works" verse at every opportunity.
Pride and humility are not works. They are attitudes, just as faith and hope are attitudes. So it appears your attempt to justify a salvation by works soteriology isn't going to work in this case either.
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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Pride and humility are not works. They are attitudes, just as faith and hope are attitudes. So it appears your attempt to justify a salvation by works soteriology isn't going to work in this case either.
How do you humble yourself(change your attitude), without works?
You're clever at swerving around questions.

Pride and humility are not works.

I didn't say pride is a work. ;)

If you have to change your attitude, isn't that an extra step outside of faith? Considering faith and pride are not mutually exclusive
 
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Monk Brendan

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If you meet a prideful sinner.
How would you tell him about Jesus, in order that he would be saved.
Keeping in mind, he will do what you say.

Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?

If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved.

What steps would he need to take, that aren't works, in order to be saved.


Keep in mind this verse: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time"

This is a question for those who vainly throw "saved by grace, not works" verse at every opportunity.
I would tell YOU that the only way we can achieve humility is by graciously accepting being humiliated.
 
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Greg J.

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Ok, then assume this person has some super pride. How will they repent genuinely if they're full of pride.
I already answered that question. What is the character of super pride that is not found in pride? What is it that you are really trying to find out?
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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I already answered that question. What is the character of super pride that is not found in pride? What is it that you are really trying to find out?
Before someone prideful can be saved, they need to deny themselves. (God resists the proud).
This isn't to say, humbling yourself gets you saved. It's to say, humbling yourself, prepares for true faith, given to you by grace. (God gives grace to the humble).
Lucifer was one of the great angels. What is the one thing that God cast him down for? Pride.


I say these things in confidence. Because I was once proud, and God resisted me. I had all the faith in the world.

But

Only when I humbled myself, God showed his grace.
Those who are prideful, never want to rely on someone else for help. They don't want to lower themselves and admit their sin.

Yet some people on here, are in a mantra: saved by grace, saved by grace, saved by grace. To the point where they don't know what it means. Nor can they accept that before following Jesus, they need to deny themselves.
 
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Doug Melven

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If you meet a prideful sinner.
How would you tell him about Jesus, in order that he would be saved.
Keeping in mind, he will do what you say.

Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?

If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved.

What steps would he need to take, that aren't works, in order to be saved.


Keep in mind this verse: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time"

This is a question for those who vainly throw "saved by grace, not works" verse at every opportunity.
Having pride is pretty much the opposite of faith.
To be saved you must humble yourself and admit you cannot save yourself. This is not a work.
Remember the story Jesus told about the tax collector and the Pharisee?
The Pharisee was full of pride and good works.
The tax collector had nothing, he wouldn't even lift his eyes to Heaven, but cried out, "God be merciful to me a sinner".
Jesus said he was justified.
Then there were the rich people who Jesus said they most likely wouldn't be saved because they trusted in there riches. Riches could also be said to be one's own ability..


Because I was once proud, and God resisted me. I had all the faith in the world.
Faith in what? Not God.
 
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bcbsr

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How do you humble yourself(change your attitude), without works?
You're clever at swerving around questions.
I didn't say pride is a work. ;)
If you have to change your attitude, isn't that an extra step outside of faith? Considering faith and pride are not mutually exclusive
Actually you did.

"Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?
If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved."
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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Actually you did.

"Would you tell him to humble himself (repent)?
If you do, then are you getting him to do a work, before/in order to getting saved."
Hard of understanding and hard of reading.
I asked a question: Are you getting him to do a work.
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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bcbsr

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Hard of understanding and hard of reading.
I asked a question: Are you getting him to do a work.
No. "Repent" is μετανοεω which means "change of mind". Meta is change. Noia is mind. To be saved a person has to change his mind. That's not "work", that's attitude.
 
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Greg J.

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But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” (James 4:6, 1984 NIV)

... does not say that the prideful cannot be saved. Based on what I said in my first post, God only saves the proud.

For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. (Romans 9:15-16, 1984 NIV)

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. (Romans 9:18, 1984 NIV)
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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No. "Repent" is μετανοεω which means "change of mind". Meta is change. Noia is mind. To be saved a person has to change his mind. That's not "work", that's attitude.
Ok for a second let's say it's an attitude.
Are you saying in order to be saved, there's an extra step before faith?
What?? but, but, saved by grace through faith!!

That can't be right. He must have faith, then he changes his mind. Right? Wrong.
You can have faith and not deny yourself. But that doesn't make you saved. To teach so, is heresy.
 
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MyLordYeshuaTheMessiah

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But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” (James 4:6, 1984 NIV)

... does not say that the prideful cannot be saved. Based on what I said in my first post, God only saves the proud.

For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. (Romans 9:15-16, 1984 NIV)

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. (Romans 9:18, 1984 NIV)
Can you be saved without denying yourself and taking up your cross?
 
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