How will people know?

[keras]

Because you have the idea that angels(good and bad) will be physically performing all of the killing and destruction. You dismiss the idea that God also uses human agents to carry out the various judgments.

But the prophesies are clear; it will be the Lord Himself that instigates all the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl Judgement/punishments. The cosmic effects prove that.
Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 83 and several other verses say how the Lord will take action, Isaiah 33:10-12, when an attack is commenced upon Israel.

 

[Riberra]

Like I said, guesswork based on assumptions. There's one small problem with your theory: its an earthquake, not a volcanic eruption. I'm sure the writer knew the difference between earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Of course the 6 TH SEAL is about a great destructive earthquake ...but how do you explain the Sun becoming black as a sackcloth of hair?
Revelation 6:12
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;


An earthquake powerful enough to move out of their places EVERY mountain and island must be powerful enough to wake up many volcanoes...

Revelation 6:14
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and EVERY mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[Waterwerx]

An earthquake powerful enough to move out of their places EVERY mountain and island must be powerful enough to wake up many volcanoes...

Seismic activity and volcanism are not directly related to each other. The former is caused by a shifting of the plates while the latter is caused by magma flow. While an earthquake can affect the geometry of the magma chamber in a volcano and trigger its eruption by weakening it, it can also have the opposite effect, or no affect on it.

What's the first thing you note in those verses in Revelation? The earthquake. Now turn your Bible to Joel chapter 2 and look at verses 3 and 10. The earth quakes before them. A fire devours before them. Before who? The northern army.

Jeremiah 6:22-24
22 Thus says the Lord:
“Behold, a people comes from the north country,
And a great nation will be raised from the farthest parts of the earth.
23 They will lay hold on bow and spear; they are cruel and have no mercy; their voice roars like the sea; and they ride on horses, as men of war set in array against you, O daughter of Zion.”
24 We have heard the report of it; our hands grow feeble. Anguish has taken hold of us, pain as of a woman in labor.

Jeremiah 50:41-43
41 “Behold, a people shall come from the north,
and a great nation and many kings shall be raised up from the ends of the earth.
42 They shall hold the bow and the lance; they are cruel and shall not show mercy. Their voice shall roar like the sea; they shall ride on horses, set in array, like a man for the battle, against you, O daughter of Babylon.
43 “The king of Babylon has heard the report about them, and his hands grow feeble; anguish has taken hold of him, pangs as of a woman in childbirth.

Jeremiah 51:27
"Set up a banner in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations! Prepare the nations against her,
call the kingdoms together against her:
Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz. Appoint a general against her; cause the horses to come up like the bristling locusts."

Ezekiel 38-39 is a different account belonging to the same series of events. Everything is tied together.

Isaiah 47:8
“Therefore hear this now, you who are given to pleasures, who dwell securely, who say in your heart, ‘I am, and there is no one else besides me; I shall not sit as a widow, nor shall I know the loss of children’".

Ezekiel 39:6
“And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in security in the coastlands.

2 Peter 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."
Gr. Stoicheion: It's where we get the terms "element" and "stoichiometry" from.

Ezekiel 39:7
"So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name anymore. Then the nations shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel."
Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Sorry, but when you take all of these Scriptures together(and numerous others that I haven't mentioned here) it becomes evident to me that its not a case of the earth shaking the tar out of everyone and burning them up with mass volcanic eruptions and meteor strikes. I don't recall volcanoes, magma, or meteor strikes making regions of the earth uninhabitable forever or requiring special burial procedures(Ezekiel 39:11-16) comparable to that of nuclear contamination.

It also begs the question, why would anyone in their right minds go hide in caves and rocks of mountains before/during/after a great earthquake? Excluding the aforementioned suggestions presented by others, the only other explanation could be found when the dawn of the nuclear age arose from which the Cold War came about.

 

[Riberra]

Seismic activity and volcanism are not directly related to each other. The former is caused by a shifting of the plates while the latter is caused by magma flow. While an earthquake can affect the geometry of the magma chamber in a volcano and trigger its eruption by weakening it, it can also have the opposite effect, or no affect on it.

What's the first thing you note in those verses in Revelation? The earthquake.

What is the SECOND THING YOU NOTE after the great earthquake in those verses in Revelation 6 about the opening of the 6 Th SEAL ?-AND THE SUN BECAME BLACK AS A SACKCLOTH OF HAIR.-
Revelation 6:12
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,

The major shifting of the plates who will cause the GREAT DESTRUCTIVE WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE of the 6TH SEAL will trigger also a chain reaction ...many volcanoes will enter in eruption causing smoke and dust ...

 

[Waterwerx]

The major shifting of the plates who will cause the GREAT DESTRUCTIVE WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE of the 6TH SEAL will trigger also a chain reaction ...many volcanoes will enter in eruption causing smoke and dust ...

You're only claiming this because you've predetermined it must be global volcanic activity causing the sun to be darkened and the moon turned red without any consideration of the rest of the Scriptures pertaining to the subject. You're following the same misguided logic as the others who believe its all giant CMEs or solar flares.

 

[Riberra]

You're only claiming this because you've predetermined it must be global volcanic activity causing the sun to be darkened and the moon turned red without any consideration of the rest of the Scriptures pertaining to the subject. You're following the same misguided logic as the others who believe its all giant CMEs or solar flares.

What kind of logic do you use to say that the text of Revelation 6:12-14 is about a nuclear conflict rather than a Great Earthquake ?

Revelation 6:12-14
12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood;

14 ...... and EVERY MOUNTAIN and ISLAND were moved out of their places.

 

[Waterwerx]

What kind of logic do you use to say that the text of Revelation 6:12-14 is about a nuclear conflict rather than a Great Earthquake ?

Review all of my posts in this thread and tell me verbatim where I said its a nuclear conflict and not an earthquake. This post I did on the 5th page regarding this:

Like I said, guesswork based on assumptions. There's one small problem with your theory: its an earthquake, not a volcanic eruption. I'm sure the writer knew the difference between earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Its becoming rather obvious that you're not bothering to read more than one or two sentences before responding and not paying attention. As a reminder, the issue at hand is you want to attribute the phenomena to world-wide volcanic activity caused by an earthquake in Rev. 6:12.

If you can't read what I posted here How will people know? in this thread, I'm not about to waste time posting more if you're not going to read it.

 

[Riberra]

Review all of my posts in this thread and tell me verbatim where I said its a nuclear conflict and not an earthquake. This post I did on the 5th page regarding this:

Very easily....

Here what you wrote in your post #103

Sorry, but when you take all of these Scriptures together(and numerous others that I haven't mentioned here) it becomes evident to me that its not a case of the earth shaking the tar out of everyone and burning them up with mass volcanic eruptions and meteor strikes. I don't recall volcanoes, magma, or meteor strikes making regions of the earth uninhabitable forever or requiring special burial procedures(Ezekiel 39:11-16) comparable to that of nuclear contamination.

It also begs the question, why would anyone in their right minds go hide in caves and rocks of mountains before/during/after a great earthquake? Excluding the aforementioned suggestions presented by others, the only other explanation could be found when the dawn of the nuclear age arose from which the Cold War came about.

>>Its really funny to see that you don't remember what you wrote...

Now about the scientific aspect if earthquakes can trigger volcanic eruptions ...

Here the answer...
Are Volcanoes and Earthquakes Related?

The topic is still debated among scientists, but there is enough evidence that earthquakes can trigger volcanic eruptions. In 1960, the volcano Cordon Caulle in the Andes began erupting just 2 days after a M 9.6 earthquake struck Chile.

In between eruptions, volcanoes fill their magma chambers with magma as they "prepare" for the next eruption. The exact timing of an eruption is hard to predict as one must accurately determine the timing at which the overlying pressure of the volcano equals the underlying pressure exerted by a filled magma chamber. If a volcano is close to erupting, an earthquake could shake the volcano enough to create fractures or conduits through which the magma can begin erupting. This could be why we've seen several times major earthquakes in volcanic regions soon after followed by volcanic eruptions.

 

[Waterwerx]

>>Its really funny to see that you don't remember what you wrote...

The only thing funny here is how you're obviously just playing word games by taking my words out of context. I clearly remember what I wrote, but you don't seem to be comprehending any of it and want to put words into my mouth as if I'm saying there is no earthquake. The whole point is debunking the rather obtuse and nonsensical idea that the earthquake your so fixated on is responsible for the other judgments that follow via volcanism. You can't ignore the fact that there will be a world war going on. Nuclear weapons aren't going to be dismantled or magically disappear and I'm certain the nations who have them aren't going to refrain from using them if they have the option to use them to their advantage.
Nobody here, including myself, is dismissing nor denying that there is a great earthquake involved. However, I've given more than enough examples from Scripture in my previous posts regarding the Day of the Lord that puts the earthquake to mass volcano eruption theory to rest. The only other argument would be from a weird variant of an Alexandrian school type of thought that puts the invading northern army of Joel 2 as a bunch of mobile volcanoes on horses. Had you bothered to read Joel 2, you have the moon turning to blood and the sun being darkened as well, and being attributed to the invading northern army.

 

[Riberra]

Had you bothered to read Joel 2, you have the moon turning to blood and the sun being darkened as well, and being attributed to the invading northern army.

We were not debating Joel 2 but the 6TH SEAL events mentioned in Revelation 6:12-17.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

We were not debating Joel 2 but the 6TH SEAL events mentioned in Revelation 6:12-17.

No what you are doing is hijacking my thread. Stick to the questions please.

 

[Riberra]

No what you are doing is hijacking my thread. Stick to the questions please.

How will people know when this terrible period has begun?

If you are still alive -the day-when the 6 TH Seal events will happen[Revelation 6:12-17] you will probably have no doubt.

 

[HenryM]

...the last seven years before Lord Jesus returns will be the worst and most devastating years on Earth since the world began. How will people know when this terrible period has begun?

Maybe it has began around september 23rd. When Jesus was born, only a handful of people knew. When Jesus rose on the third day, only a small group of people, out of all the people in the world, knew.

Maybe this has began, but it's not yet dramatic for the world to know it.

 

[Waterwerx]

We were not debating Joel 2 but the 6TH SEAL events mentioned in Revelation 6:12-17.

Then why exactly are we debating? Or better yet, why are you trying to discuss this? Your own words here tell me that you would rather take a couple of verses restricted to that book in the NT and plug in your own contrived interpretation with absolutely no regard to the other Scripture in the Bible germane to the subject. This is definitely not a good way to study eschatology, much less be able to understand it coherently. Its like someone trying to make a homemade pizza from scratch without learning how to make the dough.

 

[Riberra]

Then why exactly are we debating? Or better yet, why are you trying to discuss this? Your own words here tell me that you would rather take a couple of verses restricted to that book in the NT and plug in your own contrived interpretation with absolutely no regard to the other Scripture in the Bible germane to the subject. This is definitely not a good way to study eschatology, much less be able to understand it coherently. Its like someone trying to make a homemade pizza from scratch without learning how to make the dough.

Then you will have to demonstrate that Joel 2 is what best match everything described in Revelation 6:12-17 ...

Don t forget that in that day ,at the opening of the 6TH SEAL - every mountain and Island will be moved out of their places ...good luck.
Revelation 6:14
14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. .

 

[Waterwerx]

Then you will have to demonstrate that Joel 2 is what best match everything described in Revelation 6:12-17 ...

Don t forget that in that day ,at the opening of the 6TH SEAL - every mountain and Island will be moved out of their places ...good luck.
Revelation 6:14
14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. .

What more is there to demonstrate? How many times would you have the sun being turned to sackcloth and the moon into blood followed by the darkening of the celestial bodies? How many "Days of the Lord"?
Joel 2 is a broader less-detailed view of the Day of the Lord in comparison to Revelation and is being addressed specifically to Israel, God's people. Its not focusing specifically on the 6th Seal, so why would you expect it to match word for word and give an exhaustive list of everything else?

Joel 2:10
The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble;
the sun and moon grow dark, and the stars diminish their brightness.

Sounds like its also describing the phenomena of the 4th trumpet, but using your reasoning, it just absolutely couldn't be, because Joel doesn't use specific terms like "a third" and doesn't include the three woes.

Joel 2:30-31
And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.

Jeremiah 4:6
Set up the standard toward Zion. Take refuge! Do not delay! For I will bring disaster from the north,
And great destruction.

Jeremiah 4:28
For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black, because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent, nor will I turn back from it.

Scripture sheds light on Scripture and what may not be written in one place on said topic/event may be written in another place concerning that topic/event and reveal more information. You do not follow this approach, so integration by parts through the use of key verses and phrases in conjunction with critical reading(all of which are important to a systematic study of the Scriptures) appear to be foreign concepts to you, much to your disadvantage.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Maybe it has began around september 23rd. When Jesus was born, only a handful of people knew. When Jesus rose on the third day, only a small group of people, out of all the people in the world, knew.

Maybe this has began, but it's not yet dramatic for the world to know it.

This is very similar to what I think. I wonder what gave you this idea Henry. I think it started even further back in 2015. And what you say about how it's not yet dramatic for the world to know, is almost exactly as i see it. I think that much has happened that people have not recognized. Like Paul's falling away, the man of sin taking his seat and the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place. I think these things were not exactly what they told us they would be. The 42 months of the beast's authority might have slipped in largely unnoticed, while it opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God and his dwelling place.

Right now I think the end times might be split into three divisions of 420 days, 1260 days that are divided into thirds. Three "watches" of the night. All of the "dramatic" events are being compressed into the final third with the days being shortened on the front end. If this is true, it would mean that the really crazy things might be during the last 5/6 months of this short time. For he knows that he has but a short year. The Bible is full of examples of divisions of three. It seems to have the Lords Signature on it. They will know that He has spoken.

"A third of your people will die of the plague or perish by famine inside you;
"A third will fall by the sword outside your walls; and
"A third I will scatter to the winds and pursue with drawn sword.​

“Then my anger will cease and my wrath against them will subside, and I will be avenged. And when I have spent my wrath on them, they will know that I the Lord have spoken in my zeal.

<---420---><---420---><---420--->

Three watches of the night.

"If he comes in the second watch,
or in the third, and finds them awake,
blessed are those servants!

That third watch begins with a conjunction of Jupiter and Venus on November 13, and ends with a "darkened" sun in January 2019.

That third watch also begins a count of seven sevens, 49 days, until the 371 days of Noah count, until the "darkened" sun.

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=11&d1=13&y1=2017&m2=1&d2=6&y2=2019&ti=on