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How was the Protestant Canon Divinely Inspired?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Nihilist Virus, May 17, 2019.

  1. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    So why did the Holy Spirit wait a thousand years to fix the canon?
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. - Genesis 6:3

    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. - Revelation 2:7

    Every generation is unique. The Spirit of the Lord also has a message for each generation. It is not an issue of fixing a cannon, it is an issue of fixing the changes in a generation.
     
  3. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    So is the canon not really important then?
     
  4. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    Well.... According to the congregation.... I know pastors with advanced degrees in religion who have no people skills. And then we have evangelist such as DL Moody who had a grade school education but excelled in people skills and did well. The Apostle Paul once said...

    1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
    2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
    3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
    4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
    5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. - 1 Corinthians 2:1-5

    And then we had congregations in time who would kill over the Canon.
     
  5. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life A Sinner

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    That some uninspired books were lumped together with inspired books for a period of time in church history doesn't suggest to me that the Holy Spirit was absent. The situation obviously got straightened out in the end.
     
  6. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    I don't know what you are talking about.
     
  7. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    This is not how argumentation works.

    I'm granting you X and asking you to answer Y. And you're acting like you've done your job because you've got X ("The situation obviously got straightened out in the end."). So you've done nothing.

    It's literally as though I'm talking to a flat earther, and I say something like, "Well if the earth is flat then what about the stars in the southern hemisphere?" And then he replies, "Well, we've already established the earth is flat so we're done here."

    I'm already granting you that there is a "true" canon, BUT this is conditional. You're supposed to use what is given and then answer the actual question I have. You have not done so. Again, the question is,

    "What was the Holy Spirit doing for a thousand years?"
     
  8. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    A biblical canon or canon of scripture is a set of texts (or "books") which a particular religious community regards as authoritative scripture. - Biblical canon - Wikipedia

    My biblical canon is the KJV of the bible, which has been around for about 500 years. There are other versions, most not too far apart from one another. At 7 billion copies sold (including close varients such as the NKJV), I believe the KJV has been promoted greatly by God's Holy Spirit.
     
  9. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Not relevant to my question. Thanks though.
     
  10. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life A Sinner

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    He was present working to preserve the church and the word of God. Both of these things still exist today!
     
  11. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    This is the first paragraph of the OP:

    "That which is excluded from a religious text is more important than that which is included. We can at least agree that this is true for Christianity, since any missionary would rather give out a text that only contains the Gospel of John rather than a text that contains all of the gospels, including the ones that were deemed heretical."

    Did you catch that part? It was important.
     
  12. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    @Nihilist Virus , I am having trouble understanding what you thought the Holy Spirit needed to do with respect to the Apocrypha. The NT canon has never changed. Some groups have a slightly larger canon. For example the Ethiopian church includes more. But as far as I know the NT canon wasn't changed by the Reformation. In fact, I believe the Lutheran bibles sometimes include an apocrypha.
     
  13. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Let's start with this. Do you think Christians would distribute Bibles that have the "correct" OT and NT canon, but then also the Book of Mormon added in?
     
  14. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    No, but there is a key difference. The books of the apocrypha harmonized theologically with the NT canon. The book of Mormon has greater theological differences. The apocrypha included the texts that were valued but didn't meet the higher standards required to be in the canon. The Wisdom of Solomon is a good example. Newly baptized Christians read the Wisdom of Solomon to teach them how to live. The text was not written by Solomon, so it couldn't be included in the NT canon.
     
  15. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Categorically they are the same: not divinely inspired.

    The apocryphal books make miraculous claims, so if they're not inspired, then they're just a bunch of false claims. Made-up lies. Right? No different from the Book of Mormon.

    Why would the Holy Spirit want those things in the Bible? Why would a Protestant?
     
  16. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    I think we need a specific list of the texts in question. I was reading the article in Wikipedia, and it is more complicated than I realized.

    Not all apocryphal texts included miraculous claims. For example, the Wisdom of Solomon is similar to Proverbs.

    Also some apocryphal texts were probably intended to be symbolic of deeper spiritual ideas, so the miraculous claims were stories to teach spiritual ideas.
     
  17. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Miracles or not, it comes down to whether it's divinely inspired. There are a lot of eastern writings that are stylized as proverbs, and do not make factual claims. Would Christians include those since they have wisdom? No, definitely not. Because they're not thought to be divinely inspired.

    The typical Protestant claim is that the Apocrypha is not divinely inspired. So it should not be in the Bible. For a thousand years, these documents were interspersed in the Old Testament. It wasn't until Martin Luther that they were "quarantined" into the middle between the OT and the NT. I keep asking why it took a thousand years for the Holy Spirit to do this. Getting no answers. Just people answering questions that no one asked.
     
  18. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    I think it would help if we can clarify the specific books. There are different definitions of apocrypha.

    So let's say "deuterocanonical books of the Catholic bible":
    Deuterocanonical books - Wikipedia

    - Tobit and Judith are inspiration religious fiction somewhat like Jonah.
    - Maccabees are histories somewhat like the books of Kings.
    - Wisdom of Solomon and Wisdom of Sirach are similar to Proverbs.
    - Baruch is similar to the prophetic texts in the OT but not written by Baruch.
    - additions to Esther and Daniel are fictions.

    We also need to agree whether "canonical" means "literally historical" as modern day fundamentalists believe. Is it o.k. for the canon to contain fiction that has an underlying canonical teaching?
     
  19. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    No, that won't help. It doesn't matter if it's the blueprints for cold fusion - if it's not the divine word of God, they don't want it in there. Doesn't matter what it says, who said it, or why it was said.

    That's already how I defined it.

    Canonical means "in the canon" and a book should only be in there if it is divinely inspired (whatever that even means). Jesus told parables that were not literal history but those sayings are canon.
     
  20. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

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    One purpose of canonization might be to give an authoritative collection of texts more gravity be disallowing additional texts. The idea that divine inspiration is the criteria for closing a canon suggests that God is no longer inspiring Christians. I would hope that Joel Osteen is praying for God's inspiration when he writes his books.

    I don't know about the rest of it.
     
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