How was Jesus without sin?

[Neostarwcc]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Lying to himself would have been the sin. Admitting he had feelings like that, but submitting to God's will is on the bullseye.

 

[Daniel9v9]

It is not a sin to be troubled and to make our petitions known to God. Furthermore, Christ is not disobedient, for He prays: "Your will be done". We can take this to mean that anything is possible to God, yet, let His will be done. More than that, though, we see God's great love for us in not sparing His only Son, our Lord, who suffered and died for us.

 

[fhansen]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

It would only be natural for the body to protest against the pain He foreknew it would suffer. But in fact He obeyed the Father rather than the flesh and that only made His act that much more profound. He was tempted, yet did not sin.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

That showed Jesus humanity, that he suffered weakness such as that, yet where humans would flee (like the disciples did) Jesus submitted himself to the will of the Father.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Jesus was the Son incarnate and had this great advantage over us, He did things in that garden that are beyond our ability. He saw each of our lives play out, with perfect compassion for each one. Jesus did not just die for a faceless crowd. And He was not weak. His love did not grow weak, He just wanted to ask if there some other way to save us.

 

[enoob57]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

It was the sin that He would bear and the disruption between He and The Father because of it... God hates sin!

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

Nope momentary thoughts that come from the flesh do not count. I will also say I think this a problem of some theology coming from some really strong neo-Calvinist points of view on Christology and things like Original Sin. The Sin would only be if he chooses His own will over the Father's. (There is a lot of Biblical language that relates to this kind of thing, especially when Jesus talks about things like a person "hating father and mother" in reference to him and other such statements do not mean hate in terms of anger and intense dislike but as a Semitic idiom, for subordination of desires and priorities).


There are two extremes that you got to avoid because Jesus was not only "true God" but also "true Man" and if you got too far on your assumptions on Divinity and the fact that he was so pure to not have something like this enter his mind you basically get on the other end of the ancient heresies scale where you basically start negating from Christ being "true man", and begin to make Christ into "God in a man suit". Kind of like some of the ancient heresies below.


Apollinarism - Wikipedia.


Monothelitism - Wikipedia

 

[Mr. M]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

John 8:
28 Then said Jesus unto them,
When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall
you know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself;
but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father has not
left me alone; for I always do those things
that please him.

The human frailty that Christ embraced in His Passion
shows us the way to the Father's Strength in Christ.
2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the
abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was
given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest
I might be exalted above measure.
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three
times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you,
for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore
most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities,
that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches,
in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake.
For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[BobRyan]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

Man may ask God anything without sinning. Man does not control whether God says yes or no and is not charged with sin unless he is asking something immoral. Jesus said "nevertheless not my will but thy will be done".

 

[bling]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

I would not say: "Moment of weakness", because he will do what the Father is asking. Lots of times the words we have from Jesus' prays are more for us than for Christ. We needed to know: "Christ really did not personally desire to go to the cross and we can also realize out of empathy for Christ God would not personally desire for Christ to go to the cross, this huge sacrifice is for us.
As far as Christ knowing or not knowing if there was, "another way". We know at this time Christ did not know enough of the future to know when He would return, so was there more future He also did not know?
God could see down the corridor of time and see me and know what I did in my life. If I had fulfilled my earthly objective without sinning, than Christ would not have had to go to the cross for me, but I unfortunately sinned, so how significant is my sinning? If I had not sinned could I have also established "another way", so Christ would not have to go to the cross at all? Am I personally individually responsible for Christ having to go to the cross? Is it my fault?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

A supplication to the Father is not the same as disobeying the Father. Asking for mercy is not the same as refusal. This further proves His sinlessness.
Blessings.

 

[com7fy8]

Well, Jesus did say in prayer >

"Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will." (in Mark 14:36)

So, He does say in prayer for God to take away His cup. It is something Jesus does not want to go through, I can see. So, yes ones can say He was speaking against God's will and so that was sin. And yes there are ones who claim that Jesus was "fully man" and so He was capable of sinning.

But it is written >

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

So, if it is an object of faith that Jesus never sinned, how might we explain that He prayed for our Father to remove that cup from Jesus?

One thing > Jesus says "the Father who dwells in Me does the works," in John 14:10. So, our Father in Jesus did the work of having Jesus pray that prayer to have our Father take the cup away from Jesus! And Jesus says, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father," in John 14:9. So, Jesus was expressing something which represented our Father . . . how our Father did not want Jesus to go through all that, but it was necessary.

One thing I think of is how Jesus was not only concerned about the suffering, but He was caring about how those evil people would be so degrading themselves with Satan while doing what they did to Him. He did not wish to experience them so hating Him, when He is so about love. So, I see, part of His not wanting that was how He deeply cared for those evil people.

And we see another example, maybe we could say, of how God does not want something which is going to happen >

He is "not willing that any should perish," we have in 2 Peter 3:9. But even now ones are perishing.

So, yes there are realities that God does not want. And Jesus did not want to so suffer and be so exposed to personal hatred of those who tortured and murdered Him, but He did what was needed . . . so that people do not perish.

 

[Jonaitis]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

It is great that you are asking such questions, critical thinking is necessary for learning.

So you bring up an interesting point, it would seem that Jesus, out of the discomfort of his present situation, became dissatisfied in the outlook of his mission, seeking instant relief at the mercy of his Father's will for what was approaching. If he came to do the Father's will, and being perfectly in harmony with that will, why did he plead to the one who sent him for his main objective to pass? He pleaded, and not only that, but hoped for a possibility, for that specific cup to pass. It seems that he was distracted with the worry of his own experience over the grander purpose of it, that is, to save sinners. It doesn't seem to compute with his mission, as though he wanted to back out, and if it was possible. Sure, the flesh is weak, but Jesus was said to be born without corruption. It seems that he had his doubts at the very end, and that is a bit hard to argue against from his own words (and his bodily signals).

I don't know the answer, but this is thought provoking.

 

[The Liturgist]

Nope momentary thoughts that come from the flesh do not count. I will also say I think this a problem of some theology coming from some really strong neo-Calvinist points of view on Christology and things like Original Sin. The Sin would only be if he chooses His own will over the Father's. (There is a lot of Biblical language that relates to this kind of thing, especially when Jesus talks about things like a person "hating father and mother" in reference to him and other such statements do not mean hate in terms of anger and intense dislike but as a Semitic idiom, for subordination of desires and priorities).


There are two extremes that you got to avoid because Jesus was not only "true God" but also "true Man" and if you got too far on your assumptions on Divinity and the fact that he was so pure to not have something like this enter his mind you basically get on the other end of the ancient heresies scale where you basically start negating from Christ being "true man", and begin to make Christ into "God in a man suit". Kind of like some of the ancient heresies below.


Apollinarism - Wikipedia.


Monothelitism - Wikipedia

Indeed, I always was amazed how Monothelitism took off and was even endorsed by Pope Honorius I of Rome, despite its similarity to Apollinarianism. Doubtless the Monothelites has an answer for that, but the Sixth Ecumenical Council made the right call in rejecting the doctrine. A pity that before that happened St. Maximos the Confessor had his tongue cut out, and died six days later, for preaching against the Monothelite heresy.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

The deep existential doubts that we frequently suffer from aren't sin. Our Lord did not bear a glorified humanity before His resurrection, but came "in the likeness of sinful flesh", and thus bore the same weaknesses we did. He was like us in all ways, except sin.

He also wept at Lazarus' tomb. We have a God who is not estranged from the experiences of the human condition in all its weakness, for He has become what we are, a fellow brother of the human race descended from Adam; who takes all of this and heals it in Himself, presenting the one and holy new man before God the Father; and on whose account the whole race of sinful humans has been declared righteous.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Skye1300]

Okay, we all know Jesus was sinless, he had to be to die for us. But when Jesus had a moment of weakness and asked the Father to spare him the cross how was he without sin? Isn't that disobedience and shouldn't Christ, being God himself know that there really is no other way?

Because Jesus was 100% God and 100% man so He still had feelings and emotions of a man. He didn't disobey, He just voiced that it was something He wasn't looking forward to but He chose to do God's will. Finding something unpleasant is not a sin.

 

[rturner76]

He never said "I won't do it." He asked for permission not to and got his answer....."Do it"

 

[Neostarwcc]

Thanks for your replies. I have another question. The majority of you say that Christ didn't sin because he chose to do the will of God.

Let's take my question this way. Whenever we face temptation and fail to do what we are supposed to do is that sin?

Like for example we beg God to help us not succumb to temptation yet we fail anyway because we are fallen humans. Is that sin?

Jesus was tempted to not go to the cross I can't see how that is not sin. True, he went to the cross anyway but isn't that 20 seconds of weakness not living up to God's will? For us it would be sin if we faced similar circumstances. It just don't make sense.

 

[Skye1300]

Thanks for your replies. I have another question. The majority of you say that Christ didn't sin because he chose to do the will of God.

Let's take my question this way. Whenever we face temptation and fail to do what we are supposed to do is that sin?

Like for example we beg God to help us not succumb to temptation yet we fail anyway because we are fallen humans. Is that sin?

Jesus was tempted to not go to the cross I can't see how that is not sin. True, he went to the cross anyway but isn't that 20 seconds of weakness not living up to God's will? For us it would be sin if we faced similar circumstances. It just don't make sense.

Being tempted to do something is not a sin. But yes giving in to the temptation is the sin. Not wanting to do something is not a sin, refusing to do it is the sin. God never said we had to want or like everything He commands, He just wants us to do it. It's not a sin or weakness to not want to suffer and die a torturous death. No one wants that. It goes against our natural instinct for survival.