How was Jesus Christ justified?

[Strong in Him]

The new gospel of Christ and him crucified as a human sacrifice, was an afterthought.

An "afterthought" that was prophesied in the OT, before Jesus was born!

It sounded so simple and true to sacrifice minded religious people that it was easily adopted.

Your evidence for this is ........... where?

But when they wrote about Jesus preaching a gospel for three years before the crucifixion, they didn't really think that through.

They wrote about Jesus laying down his life, giving his life as a ransom and shedding his blood for the forgiveness of sins, because that is what he said.
I thought you said that you followed Jesus; why don't you believe what he said, then?

Jesus wasn't put to death for teaching he was going to be put to death as an atonement. should be kind of self evident.

Jesus was put to death for blasphemy; claiming that he was God.
Ultimately though, he died because that was God's will. That he would give his life as a ransom for many, just as he said.

Jesus had come to tell the truth.

He not only came to tell the truth; he was, and IS, the truth. But they didn't believe him.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus is God, he did lay down his life for us, we now have a God who understands us better having experienced the life and death of a human. He never connected the Fathers love and forgiveness with voluntarily laying down his life.

The atonment doctrine came later based on human speculation. The Pagan world held these beliefs long before Jesus.

What was the Lord's Supper about, then? It seems to me he sees his life as being given up for the forgiveness of sins. Not because God was somehow unforgiving before, but because the forgiveness must be manifest in a concrete reality in a way that is ultimate, a sacrifice to end all sacrifices. The Cross is, in ideal, the end of religion.

It does little good to say "God is forgiving" as a generality. No, the point is "God forgives you", right here and now. Jesus personally declared the forgiveness of sins in his ministry in Palestine. But now that he is not on earth, how is that to be accomplished? By proclaiming his death and resurrection, manifest in the preaching and sacraments that Christians have always done.

The mistake you are making is assuming the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of the forgiveness of sins are somehow at odds, but they are not. The kingdom is intimately tied up in the forgiveness of sins. Without the forgiveness of sins- the unmasking of evil, there is no kingdom made manifest.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus is God, he did lay down his life for us, we now have a God who understands us better having experienced the life and death of a human. He never connected the Fathers love and forgiveness with voluntarily laying down his life.

"This is my blood, shed for the forgiveness of sins", Matthew 26:28.
Also, what do you believe he meant by giving his life as a ransom for many? What ransom; why?

The Pagan world held these beliefs long before Jesus.

As I said, the OT prophesied it, Jesus spoke about it and the disciples - not just Paul; those who were taught by Jesus - taught it.
You seem to be ignoring this fact; maybe it's because you can't refute it?

The Pagan world held these beliefs long before Jesus.

The pagan world, as far as I know, did not have a belief the the God who created them became a human being and laid down his life - i.e died - for them.
All other religions are about how people can come to God. Christianity is about how God came to us.

 

[Strong in Him]

The entire incarnation, life, death and resurrection of God the Son, is compelling to those lost in sin. Jesus never attached his rejection and death as being conditional to Gods forgiveness.

a) The entire incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Christ IS the Gospel - and we will be judged on whether we have accepted, or rejected, it. As I said; prophesied in the Old Testament, revealed in the Gospels, taught by the early church.
b) Everyone is lost in sin; and remains so unless they accept Jesus as their Saviour.
c) As Jesus said, "this is my body given for you ....... this is my blood shed for the forgiveness of sins." He also said that he had come to lay down his life as a ransom, and would lay down his life for the sheep.

Like I said, you follow Jesus; why can you not believe what he says?

 

[Strong in Him]

Killing Jesus was a sin! Basing forgiveness on killing our beautiful Lord is a crass injustice!

Not believing Jesus when he said "this is my blood, shed for the forgiveness of sins", is throwing his sacrifice back in his face.

 

[Strong in Him]

Is God a divided personality, one of justice and one of mercy?

God is just, merciful and loving; because he IS love.

Why does God need an innocent God to die before he can forgive?

Mankind sinned against God.
As the One who was sinned against, God had the right to say what people needed to do to atone for their sin. Possibly you might say, "why did that have to involve sacrifice and the shedding of blood?" But it wasn't our call to make.
The Israelites were given God's law but were unable to keep it - they were offering more and more sacrifices to cover all their sins. So eventually God made a NEW Covenant. He sent Jesus to offer himself - to lay down his perfect life - as a sacrifice for our sins.
We cannot DO anything to atone for our sins against God. So we can never deserve to be forgiven and reconciled to him.
The Bible says that the wages of sin is death = spiritual death; eternal separation from God. THAT is what we deserve. But because God is love and merciful, he said, in effect, "I will take the punishment for your sin" - and he sent Jesus to die for us.
It's like a judge in a court passing a guilty sentence, saying "the punishment for this crime is ........I know the defendant won't be able to pay that, but the law must be obeyed - so I'll pay it.

This is why John says, "THIS is love; Jesus Christ laid down his life for sinners".
WE couldn't pay the price for reconciliation to God. So instead of saying "tough luck, you're all going to hell then"; he paid it for us.

Why did Jesus teach a gospel of salvation by faith and forgiveness before he was killed for teaching that gospel?

He wasn't killed for teaching people to believe in God and forgive one another; the Pharisees wouldn't have objected to that.
He was put to death because he claimed to be God. He was telling the truth but the Pharisees etc didn't believe him and had him killed for blasphemy. If you read the Gospels, you'll see they tried to stone him twice for that reason.

If the Jews would have accepted Jesus, the entire purpose of their faith, and accepted the original gospel, what would they be teaching today from Jerusalem?

Some Jews did accept Jesus and believed, and taught, that he was the Messiah.
There are Jews today who believe this, and are coming to believe it. They are Messianic Jews. I guess some of us would say that they have converted and become Christians, but that is not so. Christianity has its roots in Judaism, and Messianic Jews are, I believe, complete Jews. Jews who believe that their Messiah - prophesied in the OT - HAS already come, rather than waiting for him to come in the future. But you'd need to find the forum for Messianic Jews on these forums, to find out more.

 

[Strong in Him]

Matthew 24New International Version (NIV)

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death,and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Yes?
What's your point?

 

[Paidiske]

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